Hotlanta

[ironchapman]

Tonight we ended up at Atlantic Station, which is this strange development that I guess would be considered New Urbanism, but is essentially a fake downtown setup built on top of a giant parking garage. It felt like a soundstage of somesort. I was also amused by the expansion joints which would run across a street, through a building, etc. It was nice to be able to walk around outside, but the creepy factor was way to overwhelming. We were just amused by it and kind of half expected Roger Rabbit to pop up somewhere.

What you said may be true, but you have to give them credit. This is the closest Atlanta has come to urban developments in years. Back in the earlier half of the 20th century up until the mid to late 1960's, downtown was much more active and bustling than it is now. It slowly began to die out by the 1970's because of developments that showed no or very little regard to how they'd be used at the street level (the best example is Americamart). Now, you are seeing the results of that.

I noticed that even here people mentioned Buckhead. Maybe we were just in the wrong part, but all I saw was an endless string of Chain stores that were very close to each other, yet entirely impossible to navigate on foot. Hopefully tomorrow we will be able to check out some more stuff & maybe hit up midtown. I guess the whole concept of a city as a large area of sprawl just doesnt make sense to me. I want urban canyons and every thing built to the street, dammit!!!

Yep, that's Buckhead for you. Buckhead, for all intents and purposes, is a suburb within the city limits. It's shopping district is built around two malls: Lenox and Phipps Plaza. Lots of sprawl and subdivision like areas are in Buckhead. It's the most affluent part of Atlanta. Work is underway to build some urban developments to make the area more walkable and usable. Whether they will succeed in that purpose is another story.

How was your trip? I know it may not have lived up to the urban cities of the North, but did you enjoy what you got to do?

[Liamlunchtray]

How was your trip? I know it may not have lived up to the urban cities of the North, but did you enjoy what you got to do?

Well tonight is our last night. We went to Little 5 points this afternoon, which was very nice (though not particularly urban). I just though it was weird that the "alternative" neighborhood would be so small for such a large city. I drove around the neighborhood some and saw some new construction that was actually pretty decent, and even the "urban" style strip mall near there wasnt half bad (for what it is). Beyond that pretty much the only thing I enjoyed was the Varsity. We walked around downtown last night looking for a place to eat and it was just a ghost town. We had started off at the underground and headed off from there to no avail, and finally ended up just driving back to the hotel after we got tired of wandering aimlessly and dodging pan handlers.

Overall I would say that Atlanta is a perfect textbook example of what not to do with a city. Almost all personality and life has been squeezed out of it and replaced with endless Moes Southwest Grill franchises. I barely even felt like I was in the south.

Liam (Happy to be on his way home and glad he usually weasels out of these business trips :-) )

[Recchia]

Overall I would say that Atlanta is a perfect textbook example of what not to do with a city. Almost all personality and life has been squeezed out of it and replaced with endless Moes Southwest Grill franchises. I barely even felt like I was in the south.

Liam (Happy to be on his way home and glad he usually weasels out of these business trips :-) )

Welcome to Moe's!!! God I detest that place. There was one in Albany and everyone loved it except me.

[basachs]

Porter doesn't come close to Bethesda.

Ha1 I was thinking that too as I read aoout Porter. Porter is a breeze compared to Bethesda. I actually walked up the entire escalator one. Thankfully there is a Mortons right at the top and I got a nice steak to give me strength!

[HartfordTycoon]

Sweet Atlanta, my home away from home. Atlanta is great for what it is and is the most fun place I have ever lived. The nightlife is second to none. At least if you like hip hop and crunk music and sexy girls with 6 inch heals. I LOVE Atlanta. If that's not your scene, I can't help you. I for one have never had as much fun just walking around, at least in the Atlanta University Center in the West End of the the city. So I agree with all of the complaints I've read, but for what I got out of it and the fun I had, Atlanta was the greatest.

[runawayjim]

Sweet Atlanta, my home away from home. Atlanta is great for what it is and is the most fun place I have ever lived. The nightlife is second to none. At least if you like hip hop and crunk music and sexy girls with 6 inch heals. I LOVE Atlanta. If that's not your scene, I can't help you. I for one have never had as much fun just walking around, at least in the Atlanta University Center in the West End of the the city. So I agree with all of the complaints I've read, but for what I got out of it and the fun I had, Atlanta was the greatest.

while i can't stand hip hop or F-me heels, i did have a great night at a bar in atlanta... i think it was on the outskirts somewhere either northwest or west of GA tech. great dive blues bar with live music. sketchy area, wouldn't want to get caught walking around there alone at night, but i walked from GA tech with a bunch of people from the conference i was attending... fun night, great music, and i had some local beer called 420 ale. great beer...

[HartfordTycoon]

while i can't stand hip hop or F-me heels, i did have a great night at a bar in atlanta... i think it was on the outskirts somewhere either northwest or west of GA tech. great dive blues bar with live music. sketchy area, wouldn't want to get caught walking around there alone at night, but i walked from GA tech with a bunch of people from the conference i was attending... fun night, great music, and i had some local beer called 420 ale. great beer...

ATL is definately a HIP HOP city. If you like that type of music and club scene then it's the Greatest City on Earth. I still get depressed thinking of the nights out I had until 6 in the morning. Now I'm stuck in New England with this dead ass hip hop scene, no celebs, few hot girls that are my type, etc..... Honestly one of my business and personal goals is to turn Hartford into the ATL of the North or at least the Hip Hop Mecca of New England. I don't think it will be that hard to do.

[runawayjim]

ATL is definately a HIP HOP city. If you like that type of music and club scene then it's the Greatest City on Earth. I still get depressed thinking of the nights out I had until 6 in the morning. Now I'm stuck in New England with this dead ass hip hop scene, no celebs, few hot girls that are my type, etc..... Honestly one of my business and personal goals is to turn Hartford into the ATL of the North or at least the Hip Hop Mecca of New England. I don't think it will be that hard to do.

providence actually has a bit of an underground rap scene, that is not that bad (and i generally can't stand rap). but that's not exactly hip hop, which, in my opinion, is much more annoying than rap.

there's no hip hop mecca of new england, so any city could probably pull it off, but it'd always be far overshadowed by nearby NYC and the puff daddy's of the world.

[Lady Celeste]

How interesting to see a thread to Atlanta in the Northeast section.

aww I love you guys

I ask anyone who lives in Atlanta now, and anyone else who may be there right now, will the new proposed and under construction projects that I've seen in the Atlanta forum give life to this apparent not so lively city? I think Atlanta is only behind Miami when it comes to the amount of constrcution going on. OHH YA.. and Dubai

Thank you CtownMikey.

I am not here to defend Atlanta's sprawl or it's layout. It is what it is. Having been here for longer than some who post here have been living, I find it making great strides to correct what has been done wrong over the last few decades. I personally would never conpare Atlanta to most northern midsized or large cities. The excercise would be silly at most and disingenuous at least. Most northern cities were well on their way to greatness when Atlanta was merely a outpost where indian trails came together. Even as recent as the early 20th century, Atlanta was much smaller than her western brother Birmingham. Noone in the south every expected Atlanta to be what it is today. Did the growth happen too quickly? I would say yes. I'm not that old and I remember when there were only two million people in the greater Atlanta area. Today there is over five million.

Could the sprawl have been handled better. Yes. More cooperation for the countless governing bodies in the metro area could have alleviated some of the problems that are being righted as we speak. Most southerners have never been too keen on public transportation. Unfortunately this left most of the south's major cities lacking in that aspect. That's being corrected. Most southern cities suffered white flight in the 70's. This left many southern downtowns deserted. This too is being changed as thousands tire of their long commutes. As Ctwon said, Atlanta is experiencing an explosion in intown residential development. As with many southern downtowns.

There has been many new openings to occur downtown within the last year. One of great note is currently the world's largest aquarium, the Georgia Aquarium. The new World of Coca~Cola will open next door in 2007. There is the CNN Center and the Imagine Children's Museum all within steps of the Centennial Olympic Park. Sure, Atlantic Station may seem artificial to most for the north but it is a far cry from what was there as recently as the mid 90's. A vast wasteland dedicated to the industrial past. Of course things are going to be new here. We are learning as we go. I would wager that most of the same complaints lodged at Atlanta would also hold true to Los Angeles. Even though it is a very urban area.

Some cities developed before the dependancy on the automobile. Other's like most major southern cities developmed afterwards. You can not expect cities that may have had at most 40 years of development towards greatness to compare with cities in some cases 5 times that experience. Are there things that went wrong. Yes. It's called greed with little emphasis placed on civic responsibility. I can guarantee that if any young person of today was given a blank city to govern, but your city relied on others to help develop it, your cities would look quite similar to the Atlantas, Dallas', Houstons, Miamis or Los Angeles of today.

I welcome anyone to come visit Atlanta. Come without any preconcieved notions. Venture outside of downtown. See what the metro has to offer. While the traffic is at times trying, the overall quality of life is great. You get alot of bang for your buck. Perhaps it's not for the pure urbanist but it has welcomed over 3,000,000 new residents in my lifetime. There must be something enticing about Atlanta.

In Atlanta, Every Day Is An Opening Day.

p.s.- I said I was not here to defend Atlanta....and what did I do....defend Atlanta. I apologize to everyone.

[phantombantam]

I just came back from atlanta for a few days, and I must say, I love the skyline. Every tall building looks special, and not made in a factory (unlike other large cities where there are many generic-looking buildings, but then only a few crafted). My only complaint is that I asked 3 "atlanta ambassadors", a cop, and a guy with the cop for directions to a gas station (on foot). I ended up following the cops directions, only to be warned by a homeless man that I was walking into a bad neighborhood. I explained where I was going, and, after showing the bullet still in his arm, The man pointed just a block away from where I talked to the cop, and sure enough there was a gas station. He made it very clear not to go over to where i was headed on my way back.

The "nightlife" was great in that there were plenty of people on the street willing to strike up a conversion. Of course, I was mostly just downtown, and can't speak about the rest of the city (or any of it, considering the time I was there).

[HartfordTycoon]

I just came back from atlanta for a few days, and I must say, I love the skyline. Every tall building looks special, and not made in a factory (unlike other large cities where there are many generic-looking buildings, but then only a few crafted). My only complaint is that I asked 3 "atlanta ambassadors", a cop, and a guy with the cop for directions to a gas station (on foot). I ended up following the cops directions, only to be warned by a homeless man that I was walking into a bad neighborhood. I explained where I was going, and, after showing the bullet still in his arm, The man pointed just a block away from where I talked to the cop, and sure enough there was a gas station. He made it very clear not to go over to where i was headed on my way back.

The "nightlife" was great in that there were plenty of people on the street willing to strike up a conversion. Of course, I was mostly just downtown, and can't speak about the rest of the city (or any of it, considering the time I was there).

That is pretty bad when the cops steer you into harm's way. You def. need to be careful in ATL. I also always found the cops in ATL to be very uncooperative and not to helpful.

[damus]

That is pretty bad when the cops steer you into harm's way. You def. need to be careful in ATL. I also always found the cops in ATL to be very uncooperative and not to helpful.

Not all cops are good cops. I can't help but wonder if this person who was turned to a bad neighborhood was black, especially this being the South. When I was on the way back to CT from Charleston one time, we were in a line of about 5 cars going over 100 on 95. The lead car had a confederate flag bumper sticker, the second car was a couple of black people, and the rest of us were white. The black people got pulled over.

[Carter711]

I was surprised to see Atlanta included in this huge book on our coffee table called "Great Cities of the World."

From the U.S., the authors chose these cities

Seattle

San Francisco

Los Angeles

Las Vegas

Atlanta

Chicago

New Orleans

Boston

New York

Washington

Miami

Based on what I've heard Atlanta kind of struck me as an unconventional choice.

[HartfordTycoon]

I was surprised to see Atlanta included in this huge book on our coffee table called "Great Cities of the World."

From the U.S., the authors chose these cities

Seattle

San Francisco

Los Angeles

Las Vegas

Atlanta

Chicago

New Orleans

Boston

New York

Washington

Miami

Based on what I've heard Atlanta kind of struck me as an unconventional choice.

It is unconvetional in some ways but not in others. In terms of the economy of Atlanta they are truly a global city. If that's what they were talking about. Other than that, the actual City leaves something to be desired to a true urbanist. A whole lot to be desired actually.

[Garris]

It is unconvetional in some ways but not in others. In terms of the economy of Atlanta they are truly a global city. If that's what they were talking about. Other than that, the actual City leaves something to be desired to a true urbanist. A whole lot to be desired actually.

There is no doubting Atlanta's (and Georgia's) increasing economic might.

As a city, however, Atlanta does little for me, and I was surprised at how much the Olympic games exposure kind of boomeranged for them (I knew a lot of people who came back from the Olympics very unimpressed by the city).

Many of the people I know who have moved there for economic reasons, while liking the jobs and how far their dollar goes, aren't that fond of the city. I wonder what that says for the civic culture that will be built there (and in some other cities where people move for purely economic reasons but don't necessarily love, like Las Vegas or Phoenix).

- Garris

PS: Kind of off topic, I'm surprised by the choice of Las Vegas on that list too. I'd alter their list of "World Class" US cities slightly:

Seattle (a bit iffy, needs a better mass transit system to be unquestionably world class)

Portland

San Francisco

Los Angeles

San Diego

Chicago

New Orleans

Boston

New York

Washington

Philadelphia

Miami

[jt110]

There is no doubting Atlanta's (and Georgia's) increasing economic might.

It's interesting that people are still moving there in droves based upon its good economic reputation but it looks like it's economy has slowed over the past few years. Here's an interesting article from the USA Today from Yesterday:

"Atlanta regularly overshadowed its Southern neighbors. "The Capital of the New South" was the most cosmopolitan city south of the Mason-Dixon line, one of the first with major league professional sports teams and host of the 1996 Summer Olympics.

Those were the good old days. The economic news of late has been almost all bad.

Two major automobile manufacturing plants will close by 2008 at a cost of 5,000 jobs. Delta Air Lines filed for bankruptcy last fall and is expected to eliminate 10,000 jobs by mid-2007.

Another local employer, BellSouth, laid off 1,500 managers in December and is being acquired by San Antonio-based AT&T. About 10,000 jobs, many of them here, are expected to be cut after the merger. Two Atlanta military bases, Fort McPherson and Fort Gillem, are closing, eliminating more than 5,000 civilian jobs.

Georgia has been one of the nation's fastest-growing states for a quarter-century. Atlanta, the state's economic engine, is a burgeoning metropolitan area that draws newcomers from all over the USA.

But population growth has not paid off financially for the Peach State: It ranks 49th among the states in per-capita income growth since 2000

[Garris]

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing it. Certainly, that region's economy, like any booming economy, eventually matures and then, after a time, your job market, taxes, cost of living, etc start to look not too dissimilar to other mature areas like the NE cities.

Still, my uncle's experience is a typical example. He was scraping and getting by in his jobs in Florida, finally seemed to gain some traction career-wise, bought a house, etc... Then, he got laid off, found a new job easily in a distant Atlanta exurb when he couldn't in Florida, and then he moved to Georgia. His new job pays less than his old one, but cost of living is so low that his family's standard of living is much higher there.

He hates the region, but can't deny how far his dollar goes...

- Garris

PS: What do people think will become the next "hot" cities after the current Nashvilles and Las Vegases and Charlotte's and Atlantas cool off? I predict that someone is finally going to notice what a bargain Buffalo, Rochester, Pittsburgh, etc are and the old Northern rust belt cities will take off again...

[KRC]

PS: What do people think will become the next "hot" cities after the current Nashvilles and Las Vegases and Charlotte's and Atlantas cool off? I predict that someone is finally going to notice what a bargain Buffalo, Rochester, Pittsburgh, etc are and the old Northern rust belt cities will take off again...

I agree with you 100%. You're already starting to see the signs. The benefits of "good bones" that exist in Northern cities never left.

[damus]

PS: What do people think will become the next "hot" cities after the current Nashvilles and Las Vegases and Charlotte's and Atlantas cool off? I predict that someone is finally going to notice what a bargain Buffalo, Rochester, Pittsburgh, etc are and the old Northern rust belt cities will take off again...

Forgive me for being ignorant if I'm wrong, but aren't the tax climates in those northern cities not quite what they offer down south? Add in a colder climate and what makes you think people and companies will be so eager to set up shop there? At least in the Megalopolis, there are the Ivy League schools along with dozens of other high quality institutions that could attract some employers despite the high taxes.

Unfortunately I think the next "hot" region might sprout up in the last green valley in the Megalopolis with that Utopia mess looking like it'll be approved by the voters in Preston, CT. If you look at the historical figures, before Disneyland and I-5 Orange County, California was smaller in population than New London County, CT. Now it's estimated at over 3 million people. A lot of that is the suburban effect of LA, but in Orlando it's all Disney. 50,000 people in the town and the area around it was all orange groves and swamplands. Now look at it. People don't seem to be understanding what this whole Utopia mess is.

[runawayjim]

Forgive me for being ignorant if I'm wrong, but aren't the tax climates in those northern cities not quite what they offer down south? Add in a colder climate and what makes you think people and companies will be so eager to set up shop there? At least in the Megalopolis, there are the Ivy League schools along with dozens of other high quality institutions that could attract some employers despite the high taxes.

Unfortunately I think the next "hot" region might sprout up in the last green valley in the Megalopolis with that Utopia mess looking like it'll be approved by the voters in Preston, CT. If you look at the historical figures, before Disneyland and I-5 Orange County, California was smaller in population than New London County, CT. Now it's estimated at over 3 million people. A lot of that is the suburban effect of LA, but in Orlando it's all Disney. 50,000 people in the town and the area around it was all orange groves and swamplands. Now look at it. People don't seem to be understanding what this whole Utopia mess is.

rochester actually has a lot of colleges not far from it. the issue with that part of new york state is that the winters are really tough. i may be wrong, but i don't think pittsburgh gets those winters. the tax climate will change in the north, i think. it's hopefully going to be changing in RI soon, to at least be more comparable to CT and MA. i'm not sure what NY or PA are like though.

what exactly is this utopia thing?

[damus]

rochester actually has a lot of colleges not far from it. the issue with that part of new york state is that the winters are really tough. i may be wrong, but i don't think pittsburgh gets those winters. the tax climate will change in the north, i think. it's hopefully going to be changing in RI soon, to at least be more comparable to CT and MA. i'm not sure what NY or PA are like though.

what exactly is this utopia thing?

I thought you posted in the CT forums and would know about Utopia. It's a $1.6 billion movie studio/domed multi level theme park/performing arts college proposal for Preston, CT. They have already bought land in Waterford and Bozrah and have been cited as having interest in many other properties in the area. The Waterford land, 300+ acres across I-95 from Sonalysts studios, is apparantly going to be a large animation studio campus. I have not found out what plans they have for Bozrah. Joe Gentile, the guy behind the proposal, has been quoted as saying this project will have a "entertainment corridor" from Waterford to RI that will compliment the main development in Preston. Most people seem to think that the entire development, which includes a theme park that will supposedly outdraw Disney World, will be contained to the 419 acre Norwich Hospital property located across the river from the Mohegan Sun.

In my opinion, this project is way too big and will destroy the character of the region and affect my quality of life. I won't post what he said, but I actually just found out that Joe Gentile insulted one of my relatives at the town meeting yesterday in a very personal way after telling him a few concerns he has about the project. These guys are scumbags, plain and simple.

[runawayjim]

I thought you posted in the CT forums and would know about Utopia. It's a $1.6 billion movie studio/domed multi level theme park/performing arts college proposal for Preston, CT. They have already bought land in Waterford and Bozrah and have been cited as having interest in many other properties in the area. The Waterford land, 300+ acres across I-95 from Sonalysts studios, is apparantly going to be a large animation studio campus. I have not found out what plans they have for Bozrah. Joe Gentile, the guy behind the proposal, has been quoted as saying this project will have a "entertainment corridor" from Waterford to RI that will compliment the main development in Preston. Most people seem to think that the entire development, which includes a theme park that will supposedly outdraw Disney World, will be contained to the 419 acre Norwich Hospital property located across the river from the Mohegan Sun.

In my opinion, this project is way too big and will destroy the character of the region and affect my quality of life. I won't post what he said, but I actually just found out that Joe Gentile insulted one of my relatives at the town meeting yesterday in a very personal way after telling him a few concerns he has about the project. These guys are scumbags, plain and simple.

i post in some of the threads, but didn't read all of them. i was wondering if it was the supposed theme park at the norwich hospital site... i heard about that from friends who lived in that area (right across the river from the sun)