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Question: take Raliegh-Durham for example. Is one city there considered the seat of the metro area? Or are they kind of like co-seats? Same question for Hampton Roads, VA? What is the seat of the metro? I ask because it seems to me like these places get to be counted as larger metro areas without one City being the true seat of the region. If this same criteria were to be applied to Hartford New Haven Springfield we would indeed be huge at about 2.6 Million.

i can see hartford-springfield, but not including new haven. they still have their own strong identity.

but even hartford-springfield, one of the cities would obviously be the seat of the metro area since hartford is a much better city than springfield (springfield probably wouldn't be much of its own city without hartford nearby).

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i can see hartford-springfield, but not including new haven. they still have their own strong identity.

but even hartford-springfield, one of the cities would obviously be the seat of the metro area since hartford is a much better city than springfield (springfield probably wouldn't be much of its own city without hartford nearby).

But what about the NC triad and Hampton Roads questions? Do you have any insight into that? Geographically, how do their metros compare to Metro Hartford combined with Metro New Haven and Metro Springfield? I would guess they are very comparable if not still larger geographically and smaller population wise. I never said that New Haven doesn't have a strong indentity. They have a strong Connecticut identity and should not be included in New Yorks CMSA. I bet they are the only part of the CMSA with their own strong local Newspaper and 2 local broadcast stations, and are also served by all CT broadcast stations. I just fail to see why they are included in New Yorks numbers, while we can't get a combined metro here in Central CT. Where we all watch the same local TV stations, listen to the same local radio stations, and just in general are more connected than any connection New Haven may have to NYC.

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Isn't New Haven part of the New York CMSA?

It is, but some of us are fighting to take it away. Those numbers should belong to us.

P.S. I'm originally from the Hampton Roads of VA. Any local there will tell you Norfolk is the seat of the metro, despite Va Beach's larger population.

Sounds like what Hartford would be with Springfield included in our Metro.

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But what about the NC triad and Hampton Roads questions? Do you have any insight into that? Geographically, how do their metros compare to Metro Hartford combined with Metro New Haven and Metro Springfield? I would guess they are very comparable if not still larger geographically and smaller population wise.

haven't spent much time in either of those areas, nor do i know much about them. i do know a bit about hartford and especially new haven having spent 20+ years in the new haven area.

It is, but some of us are fighting to take it away. Those numbers should belong to us.

Sounds like what Hartford would be with Springfield included in our Metro.

the new haven numbers shouldn't exactly belong to hartford. other than sharing television stations and 91, there's not much connection between new haven and hartford. while the new haven metro doesn't span much farther north than wallingford at the most (probably more like hamden/north haven) it does go farther to the east and west (although you hit bridgeport and NYC metro when you go west enough).

i don't think the new haven numbers are counted in the NYC numbers, but i wouldn't be surprised if the bridgeport area was. and new haven has a much stronger connection to new york than it does to hartford in my opinion.

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haven't spent much time in either of those areas, nor do i know much about them. i do know a bit about hartford and especially new haven having spent 20+ years in the new haven area.

the new haven numbers shouldn't exactly belong to hartford. other than sharing television stations and 91, there's not much connection between new haven and hartford. while the new haven metro doesn't span much farther north than wallingford at the most (probably more like hamden/north haven) it does go farther to the east and west (although you hit bridgeport and NYC metro when you go west enough).

i don't think the new haven numbers are counted in the NYC numbers, but i wouldn't be surprised if the bridgeport area was. and new haven has a much stronger connection to new york than it does to hartford in my opinion.

It depends on how you look at it. I bet more people in Hartford know what crimes happened in New Haven last night and vice versa, as opposed to New Yorkers who probably don't even know where exactly New Haven is. I would say the same goes for shows, cultural institutions, and sporting events. Not that that's a good measurement of what a metro area should be. It just that I see more of a connection to Hartford. It's just an opinion and I have spent alot of time in New Haven and used to work in Wallingford.

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It depends on how you look at it. I bet more people in Hartford know what crimes happened in New Haven last night as opposed to New Yorkers who probably don't even know where exactly New Haven is. Not that that's a good measurement of what a metro area should be. It just that I see more of a connection to Hartford. It's just an opinion and I have spent alot of time in New Haven and used to work in Wallingford.

that's because you share local TV stations and the courant is the best paper in CT. actually, i rarely paid any attention to what happened in hartford if it wasn't gov't related. i watched WTNH 8, the new haven station and got my other news from ABC in NYC. WTNH didn't really report on all that much that happened up there, mostly shoreline stuff. new haven still carries on it's own with it's own identity without hartford.

the stations advertise as hartford-new haven (well, ok, channel 30 does, WTNH is new haven) because they're in between the 2 cities and they're the 2 cities that matter the most to CT. bridgeport, stamford, et al are all tied to NYC to really have their own identity and own metro. springfield is tied to hartford through bradley (hartford-springfield airport i've heard it referred as).

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that's because you share local TV stations and the courant is the best paper in CT. actually, i rarely paid any attention to what happened in hartford if it wasn't gov't related. i watched WTNH 8, the new haven station and got my other news from ABC in NYC. WTNH didn't really report on all that much that happened up there, mostly shoreline stuff. new haven still carries on it's own with it's own identity without hartford.

the stations advertise as hartford-new haven (well, ok, channel 30 does, WTNH is new haven) because they're in between the 2 cities and they're the 2 cities that matter the most to CT. bridgeport, stamford, et al are all tied to NYC to really have their own identity and own metro. springfield is tied to hartford through bradley (hartford-springfield airport i've heard it referred as).

I see your points but I just don't know if you represent the typical New Havenite. You don't share the views of the ones that I know. WTNH covers every story in Hartford that the Hartford area stations do, trust me. Especially the crime stuff. Go to the website and it will be the same stories that are on WFSB and WVIT. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any other Media Markets that include 2 or more metro areas?

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Hartford and New Haven act ike part of the same metro market. Part of that is they cover the same state stories while Springfield covers Mass state stories. To build a bridge in New Haven you need Hartford money. Plus you have the same senators, root for the same college teams etc, etc, etc.

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I see your points but I just don't know if you represent the typical New Havenite. You don't share the views of the ones that I know. WTNH covers every story in Hartford that the Hartford area stations do, trust me. Especially the crime stuff. Go to the website and it will be the same stories that are on WFSB and WVIT.

everyone i've known from the new haven area (again, i grew up just outside new haven and lived there until 2 years ago) could really care less about hartford unless it was related to the state gov't. they were really more interested in local stuff and those that really cared about outside of new haven were more interested in new york.

i was more talking what WTNH had on the air as opposed to their website. a lot of times local stations will share stories for the websites but not put it all on the air. i remember rarely seeing anything going on in hartford except major crime (murders and such) on WTNH.

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WTNH covers every story in Hartford that the Hartford area stations do, trust me. Especially the crime stuff. Go to the website and it will be the same stories that are on WFSB and WVIT.

I disagree. I watch WTNH every now and then and they rarely, if ever, cover stories about the Farmington Valley/West Hartford, New Britain, Manchester, etc. The only time they'll talk about Hartford suburbs is in the conext of sports (for example when World Team Tennis plays in Avon or there is an event at Rentschler Field). WTNH does cover some Hartford stories, but only the big ones (crime and development), and even then, they don't go into nearly as much detail as the Hartford stations. In my experiences I've noticed that WTNH is indeed a "shorline newstation", they cover some news out of Hartford because they essentially have to - it's the state capital and largest metro in the state. NYC news covers some Albany news but I would never consider Albany a part of the NYC metro.

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Hartford and New Haven act ike part of the same metro market. Part of that is they cover the same state stories while Springfield covers Mass state stories. To build a bridge in New Haven you need Hartford money. Plus you have the same senators, root for the same college teams etc, etc, etc.

the "hartford" money you speak of is state money, not city money. there's a HUGE difference there.

of course we root for teh same college teams, it's a small state, but new haven has it's own strong identity independent of hartford.

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NYC news covers some Albany news but I would never consider Albany a part of the NYC metro.

Look at how far Albany is from NYC. That would not even be logical.

I guess people in CT just can't agree on it and that's the real problem. That's why we will never be considered major league the way we should be and so on. Oh well. :wacko:

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Look at how far Albany is from NYC. That would not even be logical.

I guess people in CT just can't agree on it and that's the real problem. That's why we will never be considered major league the way we should be and so on. Oh well. :wacko:

there are 2 big reasons CT won't really be considered major league... new york city and boston. CT will always be overshadowed by those cities. CT needs to embrace that and use it to their advantage. there's lots of states that have that problem, look at jersey. other than having the reputation of being a toxic waste dump (because the only memorable part of travelling through NJ is the newark area), they also have the #1 most dangerous city in the country (camden), and some of the worst traffic and drivers if you ever drive south from new england. it's also the most densely populated state, but with no real namesake except bedroom communities for NYC and philly.

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there are 2 big reasons CT won't really be considered major league... new york city and boston. CT will always be overshadowed by those cities. CT needs to embrace that and use it to their advantage. there's lots of states that have that problem, look at jersey. other than having the reputation of being a toxic waste dump (because the only memorable part of travelling through NJ is the newark area), they also have the #1 most dangerous city in the country (camden), and some of the worst traffic and drivers if you ever drive south from new england. it's also the most densely populated state, but with no real namesake except bedroom communities for NYC and philly.

Exactly why we don't and should never want to be like Jersey. We want to be like Connecticut, only the Connecticut that I know we can and should be. Also, Even NJ has the NBA and NHL.

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Look at how far Albany is from NYC. That would not even be logical.

I guess people in CT just can't agree on it and that's the real problem. That's why we will never be considered major league the way we should be and so on. Oh well. :wacko:

OK maybe Albany wasn't a fair comparison but I still don't see how New Haven covering a couple Hartford stories now and then (most of them related to gov't related stuff) means they should be in our metro.

You make some good points Tycoon, my only beef is that for every argument there is for a Hartford-New Haven merger, there are 2 arguments against it. For instance, driving from DT Hartford to DT New Haven, although it's only 40 something miles, the two cities don't seem connected at all. There's a considerable gap (roughly from Hamden to Rocky Hill) where neither city has any dominance and the development drops off significantly in some areas. Again, I guess I'm the odd man out here, but I just don't really concern myself with why or why not Hartford and New Haven should merge, because I don't see any advantages to it. If New Haven was where Middletown is than I'd be making the case for a merger, but 45 miles is quite the distance considering it's not all built up.

Lastly, I hate to beat a dead horse but I think this needs to be mentioned again. If Hartford was so important to New Haven, and vice versa, why don't more than 15% of New Havenites commute to Hartford to work? You would think it would be at least 15% gievn that Hartford is the state capital.

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OK maybe Albany wasn't a fair comparison but I still don't see how New Haven covering a couple Hartford stories now and then (most of them related to gov't related stuff) means they should be in our metro.

You make some good points Tycoon, my only beef is that for every argument there is for a Hartford-New Haven merger, there are 2 arguments against it. For instance, driving from DT Hartford to DT New Haven, although it's only 40 something miles, the two cities don't seem connected at all. There's a considerable gap (roughly from Hamden to Rocky Hill) where neither city has any dominance and the development drops off significantly in some areas. Again, I guess I'm the odd man out here, but I just don't really concern myself with why or why not Hartford and New Haven should merge, because I don't see any advantages to it. If New Haven was where Middletown is than I'd be making the case for a merger, but 45 miles is quite the distance considering it's not all built up.

Lastly, I hate to beat a dead horse but I think this needs to be mentioned again. If Hartford was so important to New Haven, and vice versa, why don't more than 15% of New Havenites commute to Hartford to work? You would think it would be at least 15% gievn that Hartford is the state capital.

But what no one knows, at least not that I am aware of, is how many people from Metro New Haven work in Metro Hartford and vice versa or from Metro Springfield that work in Metro Hartford and vice versa. Look at those numbers if you can ever find them and I bet we would all be enlightened as to how interconnected the region is.

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Part of the problem in CT is that no one is able to think regionally. Fairfield County could care less what's going on in Hartford and Hartford could care less about New Haven and New Haven could care less about New London. Heck - half of the Farmington Valley could care less about what goes on in Downtown Hartford. Its ridiculous and its the reason why we have the problems with public transportation, urban poverty, etc. that we do in Connecticut.

For two cities like Hartford and New Haven to be as disconnected as they are when they are separated by a half hour drive in the same state is inexcusable. They actually at one point in history shared the title of state capitol.

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But what no one knows, at least not that I am aware of, is how many people from Metro New Haven work in Metro Hartford and vice versa or from Metro Springfield that work in Metro Hartford and vice versa. Look at those numbers if you can ever find them and I bet we would all be enlightened as to how interconnected the region is.

I'm pretty sure the census defines the commuting patterns by the metro area, not the city.

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Part of the problem in CT is that no one is able to think regionally. Fairfield County could care less what's going on in Hartford and Hartford could care less about New Haven and New Haven could care less about New London. Heck - half of the Farmington Valley could care less about what goes on in Downtown Hartford. Its ridiculous and its the reason why we have the problems with public transportation, urban poverty, etc. that we do in Connecticut.

For two cities like Hartford and New Haven to be as disconnected as they are when they are separated by a half hour drive in the same state is inexcusable. They actually at one point in history shared the title of state capitol.

I am in 1000% agreement.

I'm pretty sure the census defines the commuting patterns by the metro area, not the city.

I am pretty sure that they don't. If they did than people who live in Meriden (Metro New Haven) and work in Middletown (Metro Hartford) for example would be part of that 15% equation, but I don't think they currently would be. They measure based on the commuting patterns to the seat of the Metro.

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Part of the problem in CT is that no one is able to think regionally. Fairfield County could care less what's going on in Hartford and Hartford could care less about New Haven and New Haven could care less about New London. Heck - half of the Farmington Valley could care less about what goes on in Downtown Hartford. Its ridiculous and its the reason why we have the problems with public transportation, urban poverty, etc. that we do in Connecticut.

Ain't that the truth! If combining Hartford & New Haven helped this situation I'd be all for it, but I'm not convinced it would change anything.

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But what no one knows, at least not that I am aware of, is how many people from Metro New Haven work in Metro Hartford and vice versa or from Metro Springfield that work in Metro Hartford and vice versa. Look at those numbers if you can ever find them and I bet we would all be enlightened as to how interconnected the region is.

i don't think as many people from the new haven area commute to hartford as you think (or vice versa). meriden is not new haven metro as far as i'm concerned, it's more connected to hartford. the farthest south i think you'll see a lot of people commuting to hartford is wallingford.

springfield is a lot closer, but i don't really picture people living north of springfield commuting to hartford, but i don't know as much about that area.

those numbers will be hard to find though...

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I am pretty sure that they don't. They measure based on the commuting patterns to the seat of the Metro.

TO the seat of the Metro, but FROM all of the Metro area. So in the case of New Haven, we're talking about 600,000+ people. Only about 60,000 of them commute to Hartford for work.

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i don't think as many people from the new haven area commute to hartford as you think (or vice versa). meriden is not new haven metro as far as i'm concerned, it's more connected to hartford. the farthest south i think you'll see a lot of people commuting to hartford is wallingford.

springfield is a lot closer, but i don't really picture people living north of springfield commuting to hartford, but i don't know as much about that area.

those numbers will be hard to find though...

Not to sound rude, but it's not based on what you think. It's about the census definitions. According to those Meriden in Metro New Haven.

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