Charter Square (Site One)

[Jones_]

By the way, I drove around the block lat night and as far as how far it is out of the ground (for the north tower anyway) it definitely is one level above grade at Wilmington, but is at grade on Fayetteville. That would of course make sense cars must be able to get into it, and nobody would allow that to happen via Fayetteville (Fayetteville more or less follows a natural ridge through downtown anyway), what is supposed to be our front door...living room, whatever...

[dmccall]

Can you open a subterranean deck to the public with a high-rise construction project going on above? (from a safety standpoint)

[Tayfromcarolina]

Can you open a subterranean deck to the public with a high-rise construction project going on above? (from a safety standpoint)

But of course you can, both bbnt building and bank of america building share a 3 level subterranean deck. Been there for years. I park in it everyday.

[Jones_]

from a safety during construction standpoint I bet you cannot. Safety equipment is required in work zones by OSHA and this parking deck will clearly be within the construction zone.

[ncwebguy]

The deck below City Plaza is open during the demolition of the old plaza in front of the old convention center, and I doubt that will change during the (low rise) construction.

The deck directly below the Rennisance Hotel in North Hills hasn't opened even after the hotel itself opened. But the adjacent deck was open before and durning hotel construction, which did create the awkward JC Penny bottleneck for traffic trying to get from beneath the area west of JCP out toward the Lassiter Mill signal closest to 440. That did not seem to be a safety issue.

[ralncdude]

They are taking down the crane. What's Up?

Edited March 12, 2009 by ralncdude

[CHGuy]

They only part of the project that the developers got a building permit for was the parking deck. I'm sure in this economy that the towers will be a while.

[hackles10]

Anybody have any idea when the above ground portion will get underway???

[Gard]

^

Project is on hold pending economic recovery and there is no ETA at this time.

[ncwebguy]

The completed north half of the deck below Site One looks to be open for the last couple of weeks. I haven't gone in but there is signs/lighting indicating it is open. I don't know if it connects with the other half under the hotel, but I would think that it does.

The left/west lane of Wilmington goes "into" the deck and then is "out" traffic only, which should help with congetion. But getting over quickly enough to go Davie to Blount might be tricky, though those parkers should probably use the Lenoir exit and take that to Salisbury or Blount.

[Gard]

FYI city council has voted to amend their agreement with the developer of Charter Square. What does this mean for Charter Square?

Unlike the other two projects that saw their deals fall flat this year with no extension, the developer of Charter Square got some much more favorable terms. The city, for one, eliminated the requirement that the developer start construction of the towers within 10 months of completion. The developer also now has more flexibility on how many floors the towers are and what the mix consists of. They can even put a hotel in if they wish now too. Two key requirements, however, did not change; the requirement that the developer have a minimum of 50,000 sq. ft. of ground retail and that the project be valued at at least 100 million.

http://www.newsobserver.com/104/story/1615997.html

[RALNATIVE]

FYI city council has voted to amend their agreement with the developer of Charter Square. What does this mean for Charter Square?

Unlike the other two projects that saw their deals fall flat this year with no extension, the developer of Charter Square got some much more favorable terms. The city, for one, eliminated the requirement that the developer start construction of the towers within 10 months of completion. The developer also now has more flexibility on how many floors the towers are and what the mix consists of. They can even put a hotel in if they wish now too. Two key requirements, however, did not change; the requirement that the developer have a minimum of 50,000 sq. ft. of ground retail and that the project be valued at at least 100 million.

http://www.newsobserver.com/104/story/1615997.html

Keep in mind that Charter Square is much further along than the Hillsborough and Lafayette projects were, and therefore i'm sure that the council has more confidence that this project can actually get off the ground, so to speak. This project is also a much more valuable project for the city, considering its location and mix of components, and i'm sure that the city will do everything that it can to help it succeed.

[Gard]

^

Indeed. Actually, Paul Allen said he supported the change in terms for the very reason being that they built a parking deck there and have at least shown an effort to start.

[dmccall]

WRAL reported last night an effort to put an outdoor ice skating rink on the site for the time being until construction continues.

[Jones_]

Keep in mind that Charter Square is much further along than the Hillsborough and Lafayette projects were, and therefore i'm sure that the council has more confidence that this project can actually get off the ground, so to speak. This project is also a much more valuable project for the city, considering its location and mix of components, and i'm sure that the city will do everything that it can to help it succeed.

I think Carter Square is much *less* further along than Reynolds, or Lafayette (other than the fact that the City ponied up the money for the parking deck) simply because I have heard no announcements about prospective tenants or public statements of any kind from the developers. They are working with spec office space...which no bank will fund, condos..ha...and retail that has no rooftops to support it. A hotel would be key, but who are they talking with?

I think the City is very uncomfortable with the location of this black hole, and the prospect of Fayetteville Street sidewalks not being open on both sides for several years.

[RALNATIVE]

I think Carter Square is much *less* further along than Reynolds, or Lafayette (other than the fact that the City ponied up the money for the parking deck) simply because I have heard no announcements about prospective tenants or public statements of any kind from the developers.

How can you say that Reynolds and the Lafayette were much more further along? Have you recently looked at the Charter Square site? Tangible work on the foundation has been done.

All that we ever saw from the Reynolds and the Lafayette projects were site plans, which were continually changing. There is no credible evidence that indicates that those two projects were ever anything other than pie-in-the-sky dreams...

[Jones_]

How can you say that Reynolds and the Lafayette were much more further along? Have you recently looked at the Charter Square site? Tangible work on the foundation has been done.

All that we ever saw from the Reynolds and the Lafayette projects were site plans, which were continually changing. There is no credible evidence that indicates that those two projects were ever anything other than pie-in-the-sky dreams...

The parking deck really is not part of the developer proposal. They did not even really build it because the City is buying it for a cool 25,000,000 million dollars. The City wanted/agreed to proceed with the parking deck to complete the tie-in with the Marriott side but also to ensure that designs for any movement above ground would have known conditions from which to work (how much weight the parking deck can hold for instance). Speaking of site plans, I cannot recall seeing a site plan for Charter Square...only a rendering.

[Subway Scoundrel]

WRAL reported last night an effort to put an outdoor ice skating rink on the site for the time being until construction continues.

[JeffC]

Is a skating rink really a good idea in a climate where we have many more days above 60 degrees in December, January, and February than days where the daytime temps don't get out of the 30s...

[Captain Awesome]

Is a skating rink really a good idea in a climate where we have many more days above 60 degrees in December, January, and February than days where the daytime temps don't get out of the 30s...

You'd be surprised at the advances in outdoor rink technology. San Diego has a number of outdoor rinks with average winter highs in the mid-to-upper 60s (as compared to Raleigh's lower to mid 50s)

[Jones_]

But you are still talking about that money spent for what...one winter?

[Captain Awesome]

But you are still talking about that money spent for what...one winter?

I'll have to check, but I thought the plan was to do it each winter until Charter Square is built. AFAIK, these rinks are essentially large kits and as such are portable(inasmuch as they are not permanent structures).

I think that once people get a taste of outdoor skating in downtown, they'll want it even after CS is built. The 5 indoor rinks we have are pumping along pretty much at capacity, so even a little outdoor rink will get some use.

[Jones_]

hmm...maybe the redesigned Moore Square can have a stage area that in the winter is space for such an ice rink....? Sorry off topic...

[ChiefJoJo]

New blog from the N&O on Charter Square:

Charter Square is not dead

Nothing new, really. The developers are now allowed to build a hotel on the site, per a change in the development agreement this past summer.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

dead or alive?