Charter Square (Site One)

[ncwebguy]

During the charette for the land under and near the former convention center, the blocks along Fayetville Street north of Memorial Auditorium were pitched as the A1/highest dollar area of all of downtown. The sight lines along Fayetville Street and to the south will be something, especially on the upper floors. The idea is that many aging, empty nester bayb boomers would want to be close to the NC Symphony's home base, restaurants, shopping, etc. all at their doorstep. And you don't have to worry about maintaining a house with rooms they don't need and a yard they rarely appreciate. For healthcare, Wake Med, Raleigh Community, and Rex would all be nearby, and Duke and UNC are less than an hour away.

That said, it would be cool if some of the Carolina Hurricanes (or other upper level execs) moved in, as they are usually from big northern cities and want that kind of lifestyle. If there is a market for Million dollar residences in Hayes Barton, Wakefield, Solei, etc., why not there? Having good floorplans will be key, though. The Hudson units have been hard to sell as well, not because of the space or price, but how the space is used.

The theaters will be nice for residents and convention attendees... How much traffic to the Rialto, Colony, and Galaxy walk there vs. driving? Would a trip to complex be better if it meant your pre-movie dining options were not limited to Lillys and the Point at Rialto, or Taco Bell/KFC, Subway, and the other strip center offerings near colony, or Ragazzis/Taco Bell/McDonalds near Galaxy?

The gym would be nice to have something closer than Capital Fitness, which has been too crowded post-Spa healthclubs merger and number of people of all ages downtown who like to workout. The ground floor retail component makeup will set a trend for the rest of the area and anchor the shopping district.

The rendering conveniently ignores the Marriot across the street and BoA next door, but they're not trying to sell or rent units and office space in those buildings. Hopefully the Marriot devlelopers will see what is possible and mirror the ground floor experience of this cluster. With the underground parking deck shared by the Marriott and this development, there is no reason to think they won't be built at about the same rate and open in late 2008.

[RiverwoodCLT]

I hate to be too pessimistic, but do we really have enough people downtown for a movie theater? Charlotte doesn

Edited April 14, 2006 by RiverwoodCLT

[RALBOI]

Charlotte will have one in about one year when the Epic Center is built.

We also have an IMAX Theater uptown.

The Elizabeth St development is also getting a theater, which will be on the Trade St./ Elizabeth Ave. trolley line.

Raleigh has a IMAX Theater also downtown, the renderings of Epic Center are pretty nice. Edited April 15, 2006 by RALBOI

[ChiefJoJo]

The problem with the Dawson is that ppl here won't pay high-end prices without a nice view. They would rather have a 1800 sf condo on the 20th floor than a 3000 sf condo on the 4th.

On the high number of $1M condos (30), as ncwebguy said I wouldn't underestimate the number of baby boom empty nester types who would love to get in on this complex. Also corporations have been known to buy condos to house out of town corp guests. To me, they wouldn't announce something like this if they didn't have significant market research to back it up.

This is a huge announcement to me, as the size of the project is significantly larger than it was initially, which shows there is a larger trend that the DT market for housing and office is still growing fast.

[RALBOI]

The problem with the Dawson is that ppl here won't pay high-end prices without a nice view. They would rather have a 1800 sf condo on the 20th floor than a 3000 sf condo on the 4th.

On the high number of $1M condos (30), as ncwebguy said I wouldn't underestimate the number of baby boom empty nester types who would love to get in on this complex. Also corporations have been known to buy condos to house out of town corp guests. To me, they wouldn't announce something like this if they didn't have significant market research to back it up.

This is a huge announcement to me, as the size of the project is significantly larger than it was initially, which shows there is a larger trend that the DT market for housing and office is still growing fast.

I agree i wish it was 30ish stories,but hey this is alot of progress for Raleigh in such a short time so am going to be happy with this,and they have stated this project might grow even more am keeping my fingers crossed.

[ChiefJoJo]

The MOU will be voted on Tuesday at the Council Meeting:

2. City Site One Development Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)

As a result of responses to an RFP issued last spring, a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) has been developed with TMC Development Group, LLC describing a proposed approximately 660,000 square foot development on this 1.8 acre City-owned site across from the proposed Marriott hotel between Fayetteville Street and Wilmington Street. Backup materials and a timeline for development are in the packet. A presentation will be made at the Council meeting.

Recommendation:

a. Accept MOU and authorize staff to complete a development agreement based on this MOU, and bring the development agreement back to City Council for approval according to the proposed milestone calendar.

b. Set a public hearing on May 16 to consider a private sale under State of North Carolina economic development statutes.

c. Authorize staff to work toward an agreement to excavate the entire site to Wilmington Street and incorporate the cost transfer to the developer for this work into the development agreement.

d. Authorize staff to continue to refine the parking arrangement based on a final proportion of private use in the parking deck, with language in the development agreement to be approved by the City Attorney and the City

[Transplant]

The layout is just weird. It's 2bdr 2bath but the 2nd bedroom is entirely enclosed - no window views. It's kind of like a tomb in the 2nd bedroom.

I thought a bedroom is required, by law, to have a window. I thought the definition of a room w/no window is a closet.

By "Bradshaw Realty" I meant this lot, the one just south of the Dawson.

Couldn't this site be used for a high rise? It seems perfectly situated, right in the 'heart' of the city. Between everything. Plus, its steps from the Regional Rail.

[avery]

I thought a bedroom is required, by law, to have a window. I thought the definition of a room w/no window is a closet.

Couldn't this site be used for a high rise? It seems perfectly situated, right in the 'heart' of the city. Between everything. Plus, its steps from the Regional Rail.

I think that this is a good area for a high-rise too. It looks like Reynold's site is just one block north of here. I think something in the 15-20 floor neighboorhood would look good. I sure would like to see more height around Nash Square. I wonder if the N&O is still planning a tower?

[reed]

The problem with the Dawson is that ppl here won't pay high-end prices without a nice view. They would rather have a 1800 sf condo on the 20th floor than a 3000 sf condo on the 4th

Actually, the units on the south side of the Dawson have one of the best skyline views in town. Whatever goes up on the Bradshaw site may alter this view for some of the units, however.

Also, the windowless rooms in the Dawson are not considered bedrooms, they are dens.. just extra space. I live in one of these units and, although the rooms are large enough to be used as bedrooms, the units themselves are technically one bedrooms.

I've lived there for a year & love the place... just wanted to defend it a little bit.

[ChiefJoJo]

Oh yeah, I'm not sayin it's a bad place to live, I'm just stating what has proven to be the case in the DT condo market. In general, people who want high end condos approaching $800k-1M, want excellent mid-high rise views, not necessarily 3 BR and 3k sf on the third or fourth floor. That is why many of the Dawson's high end units were subdivided. They did not sell.

[reed]

Oh yeah, I'm not sayin it's a bad place to live, I'm just stating what has proven to be the case in the DT condo market. In general, people who want high end condos approaching $800k-1M, want excellent mid-high rise views, not necessarily 3 BR and 3k sf on the third or fourth floor. That is why many of the Dawson's high end units were subdivided. They did not sell.

Some of the larger units did sell. The space that was converted into smaller units was done before work was ever started on the original, larger floorplans. This was done due to the smaller units selling out before the building was completed.

I know this is a minor distinction, but it's not like they built these huge condos and then couldn't sell them.

[Justin6882]

There was a good article in the N&O today (right here). Discusses this project in a little more detail than what we had before. Sounds like the developers are pretty sure they can get it done by 2008 - sweet!

[paletexan]

There was a good article in the N&O today (right here). Discusses this project in a little more detail than what we had before. Sounds like the developers are pretty sure they can get it done by 2008 - sweet!

It was a nice read, and the picture in the paper really shows Fayetteville Street filling out nicely near the convention center.

Does anyone know what this statement means in the article:

"TMC is so certain that the site of Raleigh's old convention center is a winner that it plans to put up a $750,000 guarantee to finish the project by the end of 2008."

Who gets that money if they do not finish, and what is the purpose of such a guarantee?

[Eastwestrob]

It was a nice read, and the picture in the paper really shows Fayetteville Street filling out nicely near the convention center.

Does anyone know what this statement means in the article:

"TMC is so certain that the site of Raleigh's old convention center is a winner that it plans to put up a $750,000 guarantee to finish the project by the end of 2008."

Who gets that money if they do not finish, and what is the purpose of such a guarantee?

Maybe it could be used for more art work...or if they could miss the deadline and be made to use it towards adding another floor

[ncwebguy]

I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier, but when I was walking around last night, I noticed that the signing on BoA is officially *One* Bank of America Plaza. So they might be interested in the office piece of site 1 as expansion?

The site 1 side of the old CC's dirt has been cleared out to flush with Wilmington Street. I'm guessing that if this passes from the Council today, that they move more dirt to build a continuous underground parking deck with the Marriot.

[avery]

It was a nice read, and the picture in the paper really shows Fayetteville Street filling out nicely near the convention center.

Does anyone know what this statement means in the article:

"TMC is so certain that the site of Raleigh's old convention center is a winner that it plans to put up a $750,000 guarantee to finish the project by the end of 2008."

Who gets that money if they do not finish, and what is the purpose of such a guarantee?

Guarantees can be set forth in a number of ways. Typically, guarantees are made to the city whenever bids are set forth by the developers. If they do not meet whatever the guarantee is, they forfeit the amount on table as a penalty for not meeting their obligation. In this instance, I'm not sure what the nature of the guarantee is. It could be between the developer and the construction company or it could be between the developer and the city. My guess is that it is both. It might be a contractual stipulation on the part of the city with regards to the sale of the land to the developers. If the property is not completed by the date specified, TMC would give up 750K to the city that they will probably collect a portion from the construction company if not finished in a timely manner.

[dmccall]

I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier, but when I was walking around last night, I noticed that the signing on BoA is officially *One* Bank of America Plaza. So they might be interested in the office piece of site 1 as expansion?

The site 1 side of the old CC's dirt has been cleared out to flush with Wilmington Street. I'm guessing that if this passes from the Council today, that they move more dirt to build a continuous underground parking deck with the Marriot.

And doesn't this timing nicely explain why the Marriott was hastily approved. I think that the powers that be saw that the Site 1 thing was coming along and needed to be done in concert with the Marriott's parking garage (or actuall vice versa). If the Marriott developers pulled out, then Site 1 would have to wait or the parking deck would have had to be done in two phases. I think THIS is why they were so afraid of losing the Marriott proposal.

[Eastwestrob]

And doesn't this timing nicely explain why the Marriott was hastily approved. I think that the powers that be saw that the Site 1 thing was coming along and needed to be done in concert with the Marriott's parking garage (or actuall vice versa). If the Marriott developers pulled out, then Site 1 would have to wait or the parking deck would have had to be done in two phases. I think THIS is why they were so afraid of losing the Marriott proposal.

Thats a very good point

[MireLanski]

Thats a very good point

As expected this project was unanimously approved. I am surprised that Crowder did not disapprove for reasons of no anchor tenant.

link

Edited April 18, 2006 by MireLanski

[ericurbanite]

It was a nice read, and the picture in the paper really shows Fayetteville Street filling out nicely near the convention center.

Does anyone know what this statement means in the article:

"TMC is so certain that the site of Raleigh's old convention center is a winner that it plans to put up a $750,000 guarantee to finish the project by the end of 2008."

Who gets that money if they do not finish, and what is the purpose of such a guarantee?

Can somebody post this picture???

[Justin6882]

I'm guessing its this one?

From the N&0:

And a note about that picture of the RBC building- there have been small changes to make it look less like Progress One - and of course the residential portion is two stories taller.

Edited April 18, 2006 by Justin6882

[Tayfromcarolina]

Now all this project needs is a real name "Site 1" is getting sort of vague. Any suggestions?

And is it just me or why do the new Street lights on fayetteville street look nothing like the ones in the rendering. The new ones they are installing are boring and black typical of a housing subdivision.

Edited April 18, 2006 by Tayfromcarolina

[ChiefJoJo]

I think that the powers that be saw that the Site 1 thing was coming along and needed to be done in concert with the Marriott's parking garage (or actually vice versa).

I had never thought of that before, but I think you are right. Anyone know where the $5.2M goes to? The city's general fund? Maybe to pay replenish funds for Fay St?

Also, the Wake Co. Courthouse plaza is under construction, not proposed, as shown in the N&O.

[DanRNC]

This complex is going to be around 660,000 sq. ft. That is enormous.

[Justin6882]

Isn't the RBC building going to be 700,000 ft2?