Charter Square (Site One)

[avery]

Cool!

RBC..........31 stories

BB&T........29

Wachovia..29

Reynolds...25+

Site 1........24+

I hope the city approves the sale of the land soon so we can get into site plan review and construction.

BTW, how crazy does it seem today that about 2-3 years ago the city actually considered rehabbing the east half of the old Civic Center on this site.

Don't foget to throw in Site 4, The Lafayette, at 21 stories.

[ncwebguy]

I think the "save the eastern half of the old CC" option was only put out there to demonstrate "cheaper" options. With the way the old CC was built, partial demolition and rennovation was pretty cost prohibitive in itself.

It would be nice to see this momentum jump across Wilmington Street, but I know there needs to be land for towers in 2009 and beyond. Maybe Boulevard Centro will be ready to come back to Raleigh by then???

[ChiefJoJo]

It would be nice to see this momentum jump across Wilmington Street

Don't forget about Progress III(?) mixed use east of Wilmington St and north of Davie St where Coopers BBQ is. (topic link here

[dmccall]

Interesting.

When EDS lost that contract they moved a lot of people out of the office next door. Many of them were my patients and they went to another dentist with the move.

[ChiefJoJo]

City approves development agreement for Site 1.

[urbanvb]

This is a great looking project and huge at that. Hopefully they will incorporate the theater which will only draw more people DT and give those already living there another entertainment venue.

[dmccall]

This is a great looking project and huge at that. Hopefully they will incorporate the theater which will only draw more people DT and give those already living there another entertainment venue.

I think the theater is lip service, IMHO. I'll bet a gym ends up there.

[JTsaysToYou]

If they build a Movie theater in site 1 I will literally die of happiness. I have been going to school downtown for middle school and high school (exploris middle, and raleigh charter - the two best schools in the county) and there has never been enough reason to stay downtown after school and do stuff, except resturants. AND NOW ME AND MY FRIENDS COULD GO TO MOVIES!!!!

EXCITING A LOT!!!!

but with the city council the way they are, theyll probably think its too expressive and disturbs the peace of fayetteville street.

[orulz]

I think the theater is lip service, IMHO. I'll bet a gym ends up there.

I hate to be pessimistic, but if I were a betting man I'd say the same thing. Theater operators always have a hard time making the "numbers work" in smaller downtowns. For example, there's rumors of the theater being pulled from Epicenter in Charlotte, too.

The only possible saving grace will be the massive public subsidy in the form of Fayetteville Street and the massive parking garage stretching beneath this building, the hotel, and (I think) part of the convention center. If theater-goers can park for free, then maybe it'll work.

A gym would certainly be a disappointment, considering that a fitness center is supposed to go in the Lafayette as well.

[carynative]

I didn't think the fitness center in LaFayette was for the public, just hotel guests and condo residents.

[ncwebguy]

The *kind* of movie theater will determine if it makes it into the final plans.

A Rialto or Colony sized theater, a "destination" theater with niche films and a few screens, could easily work in Site 1. Something with beer and wine, and/or maybe food like Raleighwood. There is a theater like this in Charlotte that caters to a smaller but more upscale crowd. An AMC/Consolidated 20+ screeen multiplex would not work downtown in the next 5-10 years, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

There already is a "gym" in one of the ground floor spaces in One Hannover for its tenants. It has only a few pieces of cardio equipment and and a few weight machines. Wachovia/First Union tower had one on the 13th floor that I had access to when I worked in 133 F Street, but that was about five years ago, before Empire was in there. Those kind of smallish "fitness centers" is what I'd expect to see in the Lafayette.

A gym open to the public would be cool, and they don't need a neighborhood directly nearby (see Gold's, Pulse, etc.). There are only mini-gyms in the rec centers of southeast Raleigh, but I don't know if there is a market for a full service health club until more residences come on line. Site 1's condos will help, but won't be enough by themselves.

[dmccall]

There is a theater like this in Charlotte that caters to a smaller but more upscale crowd.

That is way out at Ballantyne!

[Damien]

The *kind* of movie theater will determine if it makes it into the final plans.

A Rialto or Colony sized theater, a "destination" theater with niche films and a few screens, could easily work in Site 1. Something with beer and wine, and/or maybe food like Raleighwood. There is a theater like this in Charlotte that caters to a smaller but more upscale crowd. An AMC/Consolidated 20+ screeen multiplex would not work downtown in the next 5-10 years, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

Bill Peebles who runs (owns?) the Rialto and Colony was approached to be the person to operate the possible theater and from what I understand they were talking about it being like the Rialto in the sense that it would be more of an art house style theater with indy films. I think that kind of theater would work great.

[citiboi27610]

A colony-like theater will work well. I also think a traditional 20+ theater could work well if the atmosphere downtown is more appealing than the existing theaters. The only theater that has an 'atmosphere' surrounding it is North Hills. Other benefits are only proximity. If the developers can pull in a decent mix of restaurants (pizza, ice cream) and specialty shops (an easy parking access), I can see a larger theater working. Other ideas to consider, is that there aren't any theaters east of the capital blvd./s.saunders cooridor. Also, a central place for friends to meet and watch movies would be great. Currently my friends and I go to North Hills because its right off the beltline. I live near Knightdale and I also have friends that live in Garner, Fuquay, Cary and Wake Forest.

[JTsaysToYou]

^AMEN TO THAT! Downtown is a very central point for me and my friends, its about 20 mins away from all of us. I think that a movie theater would work great, especially because I do think once fayetteville st, is finished it will have a nice atmosphere. Just a little bit more upscale than north hills (if thats possible), I would be fine with a four screen theater that played conventional movies. I just dont want an artsy indy film place, because none of my friends are sophisticated enough for that.

[ncwebguy]

My dad lives 5-10 minutes from the Ballentine Theater I linked to earlier. It is *nowhere* near downtown -- it is closer to the SC line -- but provides a destination expeience that could work downtown where space is at a premium. I think it is managed by Consolidated Theaters (Raleigh Grande, Crossroads 20, Southpoint Cinemas, etc.), not a mom-and-pop. The theaters double as meeting space for groups that could not justify convention center space. The only other meeting space currently downtown is the Sheraton, and they always seem to be full.

I would like it to be run by Mr. Peebles -- I was one of the few people who saw a *lot* of movies at the "dungeon" Studio I & II on Hillsborough Street below the bowling alley. He does a good job balancing independends and art house fare at Rialto/Colony with more mainstream fare at Misson Valley, the Lumina, and the reopened Six Forks theater. But Site 1 does not need him to opereate a theater.

If the downtown area takes off, a double decked theater could in the Lincoln Theater lot, with plenty of deck parking right across the street, or maybe in the lot west of the new CC deck, as long as it is insulated enough to keep the train noises out. Both locations would be walkable from the convention center district and plenty of parking decks.

It will be interesting to see what else goes into site 1 -- restaurants, shops, services, etc.

[ChiefJoJo]

City Council Approves Planning, Design Services For Underground Deck. This will link up the existing deck better with the Site 1 deck that will be built by 2008-09. After both are built, there will be 1,542 parking spaces beneath the old Civic Center site.

[Damien]

So does this mean that site 1 will not be constructed until this deck is finished in 2009? I thought that site 1 was going to be completed by 2008-09.

[ChiefJoJo]

Yeah, Site One should be done by 2008/09. The extension of the city deck currently under construction will be built underneath Site One. I assume that means the Site One deck will not be fully operational until the buildings are completed above.

[JTsaysToYou]

I want them to finalize their plans and send out some new renderings already!

[urbanvb]

Found this old thread while trying to find another one to post another. So, anyone have an update?

[dmccall]

A construction update or a rendering update? They are excavating for the parking garage/foundation now. City engineers were apparently able to convince BoA that their building won't fall into the hole. I don't know of any other renderings that what are out now, which are really adequate.

Edited December 5, 2006 by dmccall

[ChiefJoJo]

Not a whole lot to update on this project but I know someone on the development team, and he mentioned a few things:

--> the project is moving slowly because the RCC is using the Site 1 location for a construction staging area

--> the taller office/high end condo tower's height will be in the "twenties" in terms of stories, but there isn't a final number yet

--> the shorter condo tower (shown in the last renderings as 14 stories) will be more affordable, hopefully in the "$200-300k range"

With all the news on office space tightening up in DT Raleigh lately, you'd have to think that would favor a taller office/condo north tower portion for Site 1 than even was rendered previously (20 stories)... my ***almost baseless guess*** would be in the 24-27 range. I think someone had mentioned a rumor of 25 previously--sounds about right to me.

No word on a schedule, but until the development team submits a site plan to the city, it would be premature to list any realistic completion dates. Using Reynolds is an example, the site plan was submitted in late October 06, approved by Planning Commision last week, and will likely be approved by council tomorrow, with a final property sale to the city and construction to be started by July 1, 2007...

so based on that rough schedule, once the site plan is in, add about 9 months for dirt to be turned. I doubt we'll see construction begin until late 2007 to early 2008. ***Again, this is my rough estimate.***

[Rufus]

This makes sense though because the hotel is also moving slowly because of the RCC construction. Even if it does start construction in early '08, that still makes it reasonable to be completed by the time the whole RCC and hotel project are completed. There may even be some lag time between the two projects (adding the hotel to the RCC project), which would be great as it will be a chance to see what kinds of crowds venture to downtown for the new venue.

[Jones_]

Not a whole lot to update on this project but I know someone on the development team, and he mentioned a few things:

--> the project is moving slowly because the RCC is using the Site 1 location for a construction staging area

--> the taller office/high end condo tower's height will be in the "twenties" in terms of stories, but there isn't a final number yet

--> the shorter condo tower (shown in the last renderings as 14 stories) will be more affordable, hopefully in the "$200-300k range"

With all the news on office space tightening up in DT Raleigh lately, you'd have to think that would favor a taller office/condo north tower portion for Site 1 than even was rendered previously (20 stories)... my ***almost baseless guess*** would be in the 24-27 range. I think someone had mentioned a rumor of 25 previously--sounds about right to me.

No word on a schedule, but until the development team submits a site plan to the city, it would be premature to list any realistic completion dates. Using Reynolds is an example, the site plan was submitted in late October 06, approved by Planning Commision last week, and will likely be approved by council tomorrow, with a final property sale to the city and construction to be started by July 1, 2007...

so based on that rough schedule, once the site plan is in, add about 9 months for dirt to be turned. I doubt we'll see construction begin until late 2007 to early 2008. ***Again, this is my rough estimate.***

That works nice I think, so that all our new office space does not hit the market at once...RBC can come online, then Site 1 and Reynolds and PE III........I imagine getting the nderground parking structures built is a factor too in when site 1 gets started?