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Lexy

Viridian Topped!

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for Nashville. If anyone had any doubts this tower would make an impression on the skyline, prepare to be changed. This is a MONSTER! It may be as skinny as a Vogue Magazine model, but by god it is longggggggg. Good grief it is long. Here is the "finished" product form several different perspectives around town today!

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This sucker is easily 400ft tall.

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A BEAST!!!!!(Pic is a couple days old, forgive me)

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This thing is bigger than the model and renderings made it out to be. I like that it is quite large in some respects. Makes a really neat block for Nashville to have two large towers bumped up against one another with two really historic structures below them. Now if we could just get Signature Tower going sooner. LOL!!!

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Great pictures as always. I like the last shot the most. I really think it's going to be a very attractive structure.

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I am really interested in the bottom, ground floor level myself. Right now it is just concrete, but sooner or later it will start to develop it's personality with the facade.

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Great pics Lexy. Forgive me for being greedy but I wish it were about 5-10 floors taller. It would make it easier to differentiate between the Viridian and the L&C. With that said, I still love it and you're right, from certain angles it is a monster.

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for Nashville. If anyone had any doubts this tower would make an impression on the skyline, prepare to be changed. This is a MONSTER! It may be as skinny as a Vogue Magazine model, but by god it is longggggggg. Good grief it is long.

Is it any longer than the Renaissance ? Interesting that we measure how tall buildings are, but often ignore their width and length.

I think it was also confirmed it will be a smidge over 400 feet.

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There are still 2 columns left to pour in the front that the spires are set on. Then it will be officially topped out.

I'm trying to work a personal tour of the inside and roof with the contractor. It would be nice to have inside pics to go with all the great exterior pics that have been posted.

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Great pics Lexy. Forgive me for being greedy but I wish it were about 5-10 floors taller. It would make it easier to differentiate between the Viridian and the L&C. With that said, I still love it and you're right, from certain angles it is a monster.

To be quite honest, if I didn't know where to look I wouldn't have noticed it. Does it have the same effect on the skyline that others thought it would have? I'm curious, because I don't see how it really filled any gaps in what we already have, other than filling a surface lot. The only place it's really noticed is street level looking East along Church St. I'm not sure how active this project will make the urban environment and we'll see how exciting glass over concrete is soon enough. Again, I've got to argue for neighborhood first, architecture/ buildings second.

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To be quite honest, if I didn't know where to look I wouldn't have noticed it. Does it have the same effect on the skyline that others thought it would have? I'm curious, because I don't see how it really filled any gaps in what we already have, other than filling a surface lot. The only place it's really noticed is street level looking East along Church St. I'm not sure how active this project will make the urban environment and we'll see how exciting glass over concrete is soon enough. Again, I've got to argue for neighborhood first, architecture/ buildings second.

Well that was kind of my point. I think it needs to be taller to stand out on its own, that is if we're talking pure visual here and it sounds like you're not. That leads me to my next point. I understand all of the points you make about "urban environment" and although we completely disagree on most everything of topic on this forum, we certainly agree that Nashville should be the best it can be. The difference then becomes a matter of defining "best" and how we get there.

I believe there is a difference between managing/planning growth wisely and forcing a perceived ideal on the marketplace/neighborhood. Does Nashville belong to everyone? Not the parts that are privately owned. I trust most developers to do the best they can in considering the community but I certainly don't expect them to put "the good of the people" above the health of their businesses.

Obviously, people are much more important than architecture and buildings and that is why I tend to separate the two. I own my own business and, like all of you, I spend my days working with and treating people as I would like to be treated. For me, this whole UrbanPlanet experience is a really fun hobby. That is why I usually like to focus on the lighter side of things, get all geeked up about construction and skyscrapers and have a little fun. Oooo, speaking of fun, maybe we could draw a big line down the center of the city and have one side developed by market forces and the other side developed by social engineering and see what happens!? Yes? No? OK, I'll shut up now.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I really do not mean any offense cdub and I appreciate your passion for what you believe. Maybe we'll stumble onto something on which we can both agree...eventually.

Well, I'm off to sleep to dream about how ridiculously tall Signature Tower is going to be. :D

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Obviously, people are much more important than architecture and buildings and that is why I tend to separate the two.

It is interesting that you separate architecture and people. I think that may be the crux of our separation on the issue. Architecture influences our environment, how people interact and live with each other. It forms what we see, how we feel when we are on the street, our public space. There are people living in those buildings. The core of our city is not an architecture museum or a coffee table book to be admired. I guess that is why I am so passionate about urbanism more than I am about architecture. I care about the effect of how it all goes to together. I love the look of architecture and enjoy the forms that they create. In fact, I have a coffee table book about the greatest skyscrapers of the world. But I look at the buildings in the photos as a sculptural object. I disagree that they make great cities and they think for creating a successful mixed-use neighborhood they are detrimental.

I believe there is a difference between managing/planning growth wisely and forcing a perceived ideal on the marketplace/neighborhood. Does Nashville belong to everyone? Not the parts that are privately owned. I trust most developers to do the best they can in considering the community but I certainly don't expect them to put "the good of the people" above the health of their businesses.

What is the difference between managing/planning growth wisely and forcing a perceived ideal on the marketplace/neighborhood? There is no difference. The perceived ideal is what the elected body decides is the best growth management practice. If building certain in way that waste energy, cost the tax payers more to service, and is not sustainable, then we why would it not be a part of the growth management strategy. The issues Cdub and others bring up are not trivial issues. They are issues that effect the economic and social health of out cities.

I think it needs to be taller to stand out on its own, that is if we're talking pure visual here

I think it is an important point that architecture does not have to stand out to be important. But if we are talking about aesthetics of the skyline, the problem with the Viridian is not that it needs to be higher, it that it needs to be separated from the other buildings. It begins to create a walled effect where it is hard to tell the difference which building is which. It has destroyed the view of one of the most unique, historical, and prominent high-rises in Nashville because it is too close. If we are going to have high-rises we need to require certain distance between them. If for nothing else, we should do it at least for natural lighting and a better skyline.

Does Nashville belong to everyone? Not the parts that are privately owned. I trust most developers to do the best they can in considering the community but I certainly don't expect them to put "the good of the people" above the health of their businesses.

I agree with this. Why do you assume the health of their business is at stake based on our discussion? If the city is going to allow developers to go higher is SoBro, they can generate more money. if we give the TIF they are going to make more money. How much is enough and because they have been given these things, why should the City not get something back in return?

The recent increase in the allowable heights in Seattle came with strict requirements if they used these increases. Requirements like affordable housing (even I hear affordable office space), must be a LEED Silver Rating, and spacing requirements.

Seattle Planning: Summary of New Zoning

Seattle Mayor's Press Release

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OK, let me try to clarify. Maybe I should say distinguish between instead of separate.

When I say that I tend to separate the two I am referring to what is ultimately more important. I believe that to be the individual and not the neighborhood. That is not to say that the neighborhood isn't important or can't be improved upon but I do not define a successful human being or groups of them by there buildings/architecture and how they are grouped together. Granted, these things can and do enrich lives but they have their place. I simply do not believe that the perfect urban plan supersedes or is morally superior to the rights of an individual person or property owner.

Again, I do think there is a difference between managing growth and forcing an ideal. It has been expressed quite clearly on this forum about the evils of skyscrapers and the implication that if given the power they would or should be restricted or banned. This thread started as a simple statement of excitement over the Viridian and has already turned into a lecture on the ideals of urbanism. I started a post weeks ago about a particular view I enjoyed of our skyline and quickly watched it turn into the same lecture. I don't mind, at all, this discussion and enjoy reading posts dedicated to it but does every expression of enthusiasm for tall buildings have to be met with an insinuation of ignorance on the matter?

As far as the point on developers, I was responding to the notion that they should do anything other than build a successful structure as they see fit. If they are risking their own money, time etc. why does it matter to what income bracket they're marketing if it is healthy for their business? If the developer is not relying on the city to help finance the project then he has been "given" nothing yet still criticized for being greedy, only considering the wealthy or not contributing to the urban fabric of the community. Your post ends with examples of government restrictions on private developers which I see as unhealthy to say the least.

I think it is great if urban planning is your field of study and profession and I believe there is a need for your expertise but please, and I can't believe I'm saying this, show a little tolerance. As I said, I see this forum as a way to have fun, obtain some great information and yes learn a little bit about the urban side of things. Most of all I hope it will be fun. With that said, when things seem to get heated with perfect strangers on a forum such as this, words can easily be misunderstood. Please read my comments with no intended malice from me as I am in no way angry in stating my case. Just sincere. bzorch, I look forward to your response and many other posts. :D

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What ever happened to the good ol days on urban planet? I know I dont attend the meets but ive been a member for quite some time and Ive watched urban planet evolve from a couple of couple of guys that loved to discuss breaking news and get excited about skyscrapers. Now its almost like you dont want to post anything because theres so many people that pour thier heart and soul into a long post going extremely in depth and using as many big words as they possibly can. Some of your posts look like term papers. I understand this is a place of discussion but I do believe the first love on UP was skyscrapers now it seems like we have more people that bash them. I understand where some of you guys are coming from but if we have a post praising the Viridian topping out why dont we talk about the Viridian topping out and not about how skyscrapers arent good for our city. Start that on another thread and the people that want can discuss. Sorry about my ramblings it just seems like more and more this has become a place to bash skyscrapers.

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I apologize if I've asked anyone to think. My question regarding the Viridian in the skyline related to topping out, I would think. Many topics about the Viridian (and many other proposed buildings for that matter) have had a lot of interest on the skyline how that structure would fit in. I was just asking if anyone, after seeing it in the skyline, thought it had the same effect as they had envisioned. That's all.

I apologize if I've taken any topic and diverted in any way. Unfortunately, that's the nature of urban design. One thing affects another and it's hard to start a new topic due to how they relate. Just look at other topics and they all do the same thing, they evolve based on different criteria that can affect our city. If you want this forum to be a rah-rah for high rises and to not have to think or formulate a stance on why you feel that way, let me know and I'll be gone. I know someone's going to say, 'we talk about a lot more than high rises,' but this is the one topic that no one questions/ debates. Everything's awesome if it's big. Maybe I need to start using more emoticons to be taken a little less seriously, I'm here for the discussion and don't want to come off as abrasive. The good ole days can be yours again, just let me know.

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What ever happened to the good ol days on urban planet? I know I dont attend the meets but ive been a member for quite some time and Ive watched urban planet evolve from a couple of couple of guys that loved to discuss breaking news and get excited about skyscrapers. Now its almost like you dont want to post anything because theres so many people that pour thier heart and soul into a long post going extremely in depth and using as many big words as they possibly can. Some of your posts look like term papers. I understand this is a place of discussion but I do believe the first love on UP was skyscrapers now it seems like we have more people that bash them. I understand where some of you guys are coming from but if we have a post praising the Viridian topping out why dont we talk about the Viridian topping out and not about how skyscrapers arent good for our city. Start that on another thread and the people that want can discuss. Sorry about my ramblings it just seems like more and more this has become a place to bash skyscrapers.

Oops, have I stumbled onto SkyscaperPlanet? Sorry, I thought I was on UrbanPlanet. :D Smiley added so anyone with thin skin takes this in the manner intended: a light hearted difference of opinion. Like cdub and bzorch, and several of the others, I love skyscrapers, but I cannont divorce them from their environment or the effect they have on their environment. Remember, please, a difference of opinion is not meant as a personal attack.

Your point on threads has some merit. Maybe we need to code certain threads as news only, no opinion. I'm afraid the real effect would probably be two sets of threads where every poster agrees with every other poster. How interesting would that be? I like reading the give and take, learning from those I agree with and those that I don't.

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I think it's pretty great that there are a group of individuals who are willing to take the time to formulate opinions and transcribe them so articulately on this forum. I think the addition of people who actively seek out and present articles relating to any and all aspects of the urban discussion has been a huge addition to what this site is and what it can ultimately become. I don't think this website has to be any one thing, nor does it have to exclude people who don't want to engage in every debate topic of discussion that may come up. Everybody is welcome to post their thoughts and bring whatever perspective and level of commitment they have regarding a particular topic.

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I haven't got a problem with people's opinion at all. I think it's great to see and hear them. But if you are going to use a thread, that is primarily a picture thread, to promote your agenda or beliefs.....than don't bother. These are light hearted threads, at least the ones I make, and are intended to generate a little enthusiasm and enjoyment. Not start a debate. If I want to start the debates on here, then I will create a thread for that. But again, opinons are great and I love to read and hear them, but please pick and choose your battles folks. Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one...some just stink worse than others. LOL!!!

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What ever happened to the good ol days on urban planet? I know I dont attend the meets but ive been a member for quite some time and Ive watched urban planet evolve from a couple of couple of guys that loved to discuss breaking news and get excited about skyscrapers. Now its almost like you dont want to post anything because theres so many people that pour thier heart and soul into a long post going extremely in depth and using as many big words as they possibly can. Some of your posts look like term papers. I understand this is a place of discussion but I do believe the first love on UP was skyscrapers now it seems like we have more people that bash them. I understand where some of you guys are coming from but if we have a post praising the Viridian topping out why dont we talk about the Viridian topping out and not about how skyscrapers arent good for our city. Start that on another thread and the people that want can discuss. Sorry about my ramblings it just seems like more and more this has become a place to bash skyscrapers.

You hit the nail on the head. I just dont read all the long nonsensical post anymore because there are a number of people on the board(not to pick on anyone) that use terminology and arguments that are above many of the people here that just want to share news and have a good time. We just want to know what is going on in Nashville and get excited about it. Thanks for having the gonads to say this. Many of the topics get so off track that it is just no use in reading them. That is why several of the older members just dont post much anymore. You all may get angry at me for posting this, but its just my opinion, maybe it does stink . :(

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Then we will leave you in peace. Good Luck. The forum was enjoyable while it lasted.

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I haven't got a problem with people's opinion at all. I think it's great to see and hear them. But if you are going to use a thread, that is primarily a picture thread, to promote your agenda or beliefs.....than don't bother. These are light hearted threads, at least the ones I make, and are intended to generate a little enthusiasm and enjoyment. Not start a debate. If I want to start the debates on here, then I will create a thread for that. But again, opinons are great and I love to read and hear them, but please pick and choose your battles folks. Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one...some just stink worse than others. LOL!!!

Sorry, I was using the photos to ask if people who had been arguing that it would have the same effect on the skyline they had originally thought. Just a simple question. Obviously the new kids in town aren't welcome in the good ole boys club. Sorry if we've forced anyone to think about our urban environment. I'll bid adieu as well.

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Then we will leave you in peace. Good Luck. The forum was enjoyable while it lasted.

C'mon, fellas. This place is big enough for everybody. Don't take your shovel and pail and run off !

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Oh well. It's a bit trivial to just tuck your tails and run, but if that's what you want to do......then fine.

Some of us, me included, don't set here and disect every thing about Nashville. We just enjoy what is happening around us and try to appreciate where we have been, where we are, and where we are going. If this little thread, which is totally harmless in all respects, is going to drive you away...then I question your reasons for being here in the first place. Nothing personal at all, just why up and leave over a stupid ass thread like this???

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Oh well. It's a bit trivial to just tuck your tails and run, but if that's what you want to do......then fine.

Some of us, me included, don't set here and disect every thing about Nashville. We just enjoy what is happening around us and try to appreciate where we have been, where we are, and where we are going. If this little thread, which is totally harmless in all respects, is going to drive you away...then I question your reasons for being here in the first place. Nothing personal at all, just why up and leave over a stupid ass thread like this???

Hey, Lexy,

I guess I'm at a bit of a loss here. I can see your point that leaving over a thread is over the top, but at the same time, I don't see why so many folks get upset when someone posts an opinion on a thread (even a rah-rah picture thread). If you aren't interested in opinions or longer posts, skip them. It's not like anyone makes you read every post. Like you said, it's just a stupid ass thread.

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Personally,

I think the forum has greatly improved with all the new posters and opinions. I've been here a while and loved reading what the old forumers had to say... but many times when someone would ask a question or something that was perceived as less than supportive of all things Nashville (such as when I questioned why there weren't many downtown parks, and why they didn't develop the Riverfront in downtown and have boats docked there, etc... or why soooo many buildings on broadways and other streets were boarded up and in disrepair) people quickly bristled, and stated that Nashville was just dandy as it was. There were plenty of plazas, and great landscaping in downtown. The Riverfront could not be used, and there was no way to force people to improve their property. I disagree. I think government CAN make it enticing to improve ones property in the CBD, through tax initiatives and other incentives. I think there needs to be ALOT more greenspace in downtown. The RIVERFRONT should be the JEWEL of downtown. But 2 years ago when I was saying this, no one seemed to like it (at least they never admitted to agreeing, even if they secretly did, hehehe). Now, with the new forumers we have people who are asking, AND answering these questions. People who don't just want to be cheerleaders for Nashville, but who want it to be MORE. To grow and mature and to become a world class city. And that is good. But I wouldn't want to see the old forumers who love the city and love cheering for it go, either. I think the two groups bring a great balance. Together they keep the forum engaging, but not too stuffy. Critical, but also supportive of this great city!!! And that is a GOOD mix to have. Yes the forum is different now. And change is always hard. But it IS good!! We just need to learn to get along!!!

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I've enjoyed the differing opinions as much as anyone. Personally, I have grass to cut, beds to weed, a convertible to drive, and basically a springtime to enjoy right here. I'm not going to worry much whether the riverfront has a Toys R Us themepark for the kiddies or not, or if a building in SoBro conforms to my dream or someone else's. I don't post much anymore because I just don't have much to say right now, nor to I feel my comments will break or make a discussion. I just enjoy reading. I may or may not agree with what other people say, but I like to read this stuff and will continue to do so, as will cdub and bzorch. Hopefully, they'll follow the patterns as we all have from time to time. I've picked up my toys and run away too on a couple of occasions, but all in all, I keep coming back. Right now, as I said, I'm busy. Deep discussions with my participation isn't where I need to concentrate my energies right now, but if others will carry that torch, I'll keep on reading. Life will go on, buildings will be built. This site is a passionate addiction for most of us, and perhaps a 12-step Get Out and Do Something Process is in order. Quite frankly, I'm a bit bored. It's fun doing other things and then seeing what I've missed. Perspective is a precious thing to have, let's not lose it.

I'm off to the see the wizard, ya'll have fun. See ya soon, hopefully next weekend.

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The simplest answer, touched on by Cliff, is that I do not read and/or respond to subject matter or posts that hold no interest for me. I have enjoyed the back and forth with the new members regarding urban design while continuing to revel in my love of skyscrapers with others. The forum will only improve with more participants that hold passionate views of what the future holds for Nashville.

We are all big boys and girls and I learned a long time ago that not everyone is going to agree with our points of view, especially mine!

That said for anyone to leave over a little criticism, whether it is the content of a post or where it is posted is very juvenile. Lets all (me included) grow some thicker skin and enjoy the interaction, as with everything some good some bad.

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