Zoning approved for a new Super Target on Alpine

[snoogit]

I think Alpine is doomed until a nuclear device, or market factors kill it.

If I had to redo it, I would make Alpine a Four lane road, with a left turn lane, and bus/shuttle lanes on each side. Then I would make the old Fischer plant a LRT hub for the area, with LRT stops at 3 Mile, Center Dr, 4 mile, and then right across from Menards. It would go up the eastern side of the street all the way to Rockford.

If everything was blown up catastrophically, and nothing was saved, I would make sure each building was street-side with little to no setback (and yeah probably would have to have jungle parking in the rear), but LRT people would have the advantage of getting to the stores because the LRT would stop right at the door, whereas those who drive and park wouldn't have the same luxury.. I would love to see everything streetside from a little north of 4 mile all the way south to Leonard. Roundabouts at 3 and 4 miles, with the LRT still running on the eastern side, with walkways (no need to have massive crosswalks connected to nothing, both sides would be so close to the street that it would look like a normal skyway.) to connect the east and west side of the street, and LRT lines running down 4 mile and Leonard.

But I have to admit if something isnt done about Alpine:

This is the future.

[Phizzy]

Adding the "s" drive's me crazy One of my pet peeves I guess.

It is somewhat acceptable to add "s" or "'s" to the end of Meijer because it was called "Meijer's" for a long, long time. So, of course, people in the Grand Rapids area (especially those old enough to remember, perhaps 35+) are going to be accustomed to calling it "Meijer's".

[snoogit]

Calling it Meijer is actually a fairly new concept for the company.

[lstmk]

Calling it Meijer is actually a fairly new concept for the company.

My Grandma always referred to it as the Thrifty Acres, even if it was not in a particular Meijer store name.

[francishsu]

But I have to admit if something isnt done about Alpine:

(see map above)

This is the future.

Probably wasn't your intention, but I am quite liking your future bypass rendition. Brings GR metro closer to the big leagues.

One suggestion.. rename M-6 to I-296.. woohoo!

[Rizzo]

Calling it Meijer is actually a fairly new concept for the company.

That clears it up for me because all the old foogies I know call it "Meijers," and "The Thrift."

[GRDadof3]

My Grandma always referred to it as the Thrifty Acres, even if it was not in a particular Meijer store name.

I believe all the Meijer stores in Lansing had the "Thrifty Acres" on their signs, or at least the one on West Saginaw where our Mom took us occassionally.

Snoogit, your bypass has one problem (well more than one). The new section that you put in that runs diagonally where M-6 ends would never go there. There is far too much development in that area for it to cut through now. It would be further West toward 48th (take your North/South section near Allendale and run it straight South to I-196).

I'm really surprised so many of you aspire for Grand Rapids to be just like every other large metro (with a bunch of bypasses). Are you hoping we'll have better strip malls than Atlanta or Kansas City at least?

[snoogit]

Snoogit, your bypass has one problem (well more than one). The new section that you put in that runs diagonally where M-6 ends would never go there. There is far too much development in that area for it to cut through now. It would be further West toward 48th (take your North/South section near Allendale and run it straight South to I-196).

I only drew a big circle coming off of where M-6 meets I-196, to 48th, then to 10 mile to the north, followed 10 mile, then went east aproximating where a north south to the east would go meeting M-6 at I-96

It was a completely innaccurate example drawn in MS Paint more to prove a point then to be a true diagram of a potential development. I for one would HATE for the "GR loop" to come to reality. Also development hasn't stopped highways before *cough* 131 *cough*

[destijl]

I believe all the Meijer stores in Lansing had the "Thrifty Acres" on their signs, or at least the one on West Saginaw where our Mom took us occassionally.

Meijer began to phase out the "Thrifty Acres" name with the opening of the Cascade store in 1984.

[misskelliecmu]

I hate to nitpick, and I'm sure a lot of other west siders will find this humorous, but there's no 'S' in Meijer.

Thanks for sharing that with me...

[lstmk]

I only drew a big circle coming off of where M-6 meets I-196, to 48th, then to 10 mile to the north, followed 10 mile, then went east aproximating where a north south to the east would go meeting M-6 at I-96

It was a completely innaccurate example drawn in MS Paint more to prove a point then to be a true diagram of a potential development. I for one would HATE for the "GR loop" to come to reality. Also development hasn't stopped highways before *cough* 131 *cough*

Snoogit, I found your vision to be a bit limited. Here's something I like to call the Fibonacci Freeway.

[GRDadof3]

Snoogit, I found your vision to be a bit limited. Here's something I like to call the Fibonacci Freeway.

Damn! Late for work! Got caught in the web again!

[Veloise]

My Grandma always referred to it as the Thrifty Acres, even if it was not in a particular Meijer store name.

I've referred to it as "Fred" or "Fred's" with complete comprehension from the listener.

"Where'dja get that?"

"Fred."

And among buddies who also have the 24/7 habit, "Shifty's" (as in Shifty Takers) works too (while acknowledging that I didn't really need the 30% off spring placemats, 50 lb of potting soil, and 50-cent-sale gas station cappucino).

[carefully typing the F in SHIFTY]

~~~~~~~~~~~

A former neighbor who works at the Alpine store says it's last on the list for upgrading. Very small, low ceilings, lacks the modern ambience of their new builds. When the Ionia store site was rebuilt, they built a complete new store on the adjacent portion of the parking lot, then held a customer contest for who'd get to give the old building the first demolition hit with a 'dozer. It would be tough to rebuild the existing Alpine store and situate the new one appropriately for the site and access...unless Fred brings in a mess of circus tents to sell out of during the reconstruct.

Access management on Alpine would be a good thing. Some years back I was amazed to see all the connected parking lots on 28th Street, and then discovered 29th Street (see avatar!) and how parking lots connect the two travelways. What a good idea. I can go from one business to the next without having to turn left and enter the traffic flow. (I'm not in Detroit anymore...)

At a planning conference some years back Frank Wash (then Alpine Twp planner) did a nice presentation about the conversion of the K-Mart building (now Schuler's et al). Quite interesting and well thought-out. The developer added a ski slope-like access to the small neighborhood street just north of the development so that residents could get to the traffic light at the plaza entrance.

[edited to fix Frank's name]

[snoogit]

Snoogit, I found your vision to be a bit limited. Here's something I like to call the Fibonacci Freeway.

If that ever happens, I swear I will personally come over to your house, find you and kick your behind all the way to Los Angeles

[Rizzo]

It runs right through my 'hood! So now the future is bulding bypass to bypass other bypass and to bypass the main grid of Grand Rapids

[GRGyp]

If that ever happens, I swear I will personally come over to your house, find you and kick your behind all the way to Los Angeles

With MDoT's love for building freeway bridges, and seeing how many times this one crosses the Grand River, there's a good chance that they will build this!

Bonus points to the plan since it obliterates Meijer stores on Plainfield, Knapp Corners, 54th Street-Wyoming, and Jenison!!!

And the Lowes on 28th Street and Beltline. Death to parking lots!

[GRDadof3]

Death to parking lots!

Isn't that what this is?

[mejane]

The Meijer store at Kalamazoo and 28th street was named

Meijer's Thrifty Acres, nicknamed by some:

Shifty Shakers - Why? I dunno.

[MJLO]

Mejane, you must affectionately refer to the big store at 28th and Kzoo as "Ghetto Meijer" otherwise noone will know where you are talking about.

Ok back on topic, Ive been listening to everyone on here, talk about sprawl, talk about light rail, talk about Alpine. It seems everyone on here has grown alergic to automobiles. Alpine is a mess yes, It should be a divided boulevard, There should be a light rail corridor that goes up it. The truth is, Alpine Ave from 3 to 4 mile, is the busiest stretch of road in western Michigan (stretch that is not a freeway, that ominous distinction goes to 131 from Franklin to Wealthy). You can check the stats at M-dots website. It's busier than East Beltline, Busier than any stretch of 28th, 44th, Kzoo, Plainfield, ect. Even if Alpine had been planned beautifully, it would still be a busy busy street, it's a state designated highway. The main commuter road, to the northwestern Suburbs, One of the busiest Arteries into vacation country all the way up to TC. I have no doubts that light rail will make it to our fine city, but our clogged freeways will still exist. Alpine will still be a stop and go mess, and the way the burbs have built out will still be there. Once in place I doubt much will change, I'm sure ridership will be great. But it's not a magic thing, where once it's built you're in the perfect city. Go to, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Boston, DC, Seattle.... I could go on, All of these cities have horrendous traffic, extensive, and well planned freeway systems,(which in my opinion GR desperately needs), and yes Precious light rail, spend a little time in any of these places, and "horrible" Alpine, will seem tame. The point is there is no magic cure, we NEED light rail, but that sketch of a freeway loop connecting the city, isn't such a bad Idea either, you need all of these things, in conjunction with light rail, to have a well oiled city for moving people.

[snoogit]

Mejane, you must affectionately refer to the big store at 28th and Kzoo as "Ghetto Meijer" otherwise noone will know where you are talking about.

Theres three stores competing for that moniker now MJLO. (alpine, 54th, and 28th/Kzoo)

[MJLO]

no matter, how bad it getsd at 54th and Clyde Park, it's still not Ghetto Miejer, and Alpine Miejer is not competing for that title,

that one is "El Mejeire"

[Rizzo]

I don't get why these Meijer's are classified in such manner?

[Papabaar]

Is light rail an issue when the destination is a grocery store or department store like Meijer, Walmart, or Target? I can't imagine anyone waiting for the train to go back to their car with a gallon of ice cream, 128 oz jug of Tide and the 12 double rolls of Charmin.

I visited Chicago a few times and stayed downtown. I always have wondered what people living in the high rises and taking the train or walking do when they grocery shop or buy large items.

I see the rail as getting you back and forth to work and entertainment, not really to go back and forth to shop.

[GRDadof3]

Is light rail an issue when the destination is a grocery store or department store like Meijer, Walmart, or Target? I can't imagine anyone waiting for the train to go back to their car with a gallon of ice cream, 128 oz jug of Tide and the 12 double rolls of Charmin.

I visited Chicago a few times and stayed downtown. I always have wondered what people living in the high rises and taking the train or walking do when they grocery shop or buy large items.

I see the rail as getting you back and forth to work and entertainment, not really to go back and forth to shop.

I can tell you for certain I know several people who live downtown Chicago, including family members, who own a car but only see it once a month or so. They ride the train to do everything. Or they have groceries delivered.

Granted, I should add that none of them have kids, so groceries or supplies at Target may only be 4 or 5 bags.

[francishsu]

In Boston, I regularly used the bus and sometimes subway to get the groceries. But similar to GRDadof3's examples, I was buying groceries primarily for myself at the time. I think it's a good idea to have a stop near one, provided that the train/bus stops there frequently (e.g. at least every half hour). Sometimes you keep in mind the schedule and time your shopping so that you won't have to wait long. Of course, the success of that strategy depends on the transportation being able to adhere to the schedule.