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"UNCC" "CPCC" - What's in a name?


Richhamleigh, DC

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Your timing couldn't have been more perfect. See here.

A nice plan for Columbia, but the population of Columbia is far smaller than that of any of the places that we have discussed so far. (well except for Chapel Hill) University City, Durham, Raleigh, Greensboro, and Winston are all much larger. Columbia is no skyscrapercity either.

On the earlier discussion, I should point out that UNCC is the only campus in all of the Carolinas that will have direct access to a light rail system. My guess is the MTA will choose the alternative to put the station right on the campus. In terms of being an urban school, this will set UNCC on a plane different from any other campus in the two states.

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The LRT aspect of UNCC's campus is cool. I just hope it isn't hopeless from all the quasi-freeways all around the campus, with no grid infrastructure and a poor connectivity index. I suppose with Charlotte's tradition of wiping out things that get in the way, it won't be as hard to retrofit one :).

Skyscrapers, though, don't really fit the meaning of what I think people are saying. It is one thing to be in among skrapers, like NYU. But UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, NC State, and USC are all in the downtowns of their respective small (ish) cities. The campuses themselves are not urban, but you can walk from the campus to the main street nightlife, shopping, restaurants, and employment.

If North Tryon is recast as a pedestrian-oriented main street between Harris and Mallard Creek as part of LRT, it could satisfy this, and give the campus more of a feeling like it plugs into an urban area. But the current state is somewhat like a business park in a placeless suburbia.

Maybe all of this discussion is coming out of a general feeling that UNCC must do a series of bold moves to help establish a unique and more interesting identity (in lieu of or in addition to changing its name).

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Maybe all of this discussion is coming out of a general feeling that UNCC must do a series of bold moves to help establish a unique and more interesting identity (in lieu of or in addition to changing its name).

With UNCC's enrollment rising each year, and it can't build buildings fast enough on the 1000 acres that it owns in the Northeast I am not sure why you would say this. It seems to me that in terms of growth, they are one of the most successful universities in the USA at the moment. The only thing holding it back is the availability of funds from the state.

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A nice plan for Columbia, but the population of Columbia is far smaller than that of any of the places that we have discussed so far. (well except for Chapel Hill) University City, Durham, Raleigh, Greensboro, and Winston are all much larger. Columbia is no skyscrapercity either.

I don't understand how the above comments relate to your earlier statement. The point is that USC being in downtown Columbia is in no way limiting what the campus is able to do. And the arbitrary municipal population figure is irrelevant here, as it is obvious that Columbia's peers in NC include Durham, Greensboro, and even Raleigh to a certain extent. Urbanized area and MSA figures attest to that. Skyscrapers also don't have much to do with the size of a CBD either; Charleston effectively demonstrates this by itself.

On the earlier discussion, I should point out that UNCC is the only campus in all of the Carolinas that will have direct access to a light rail system. My guess is the MTA will choose the alternative to put the station right on the campus. In terms of being an urban school, this will set UNCC on a plane different from any other campus in the two states.

It's good that UNCC will have access to light rail, but there's no need for truly urban campuses to have this connection, as they are already located downtown. In that regard, as far as urbanity is concerned, UNCC will never be able to measure up to USC or the College of Charleston, the two most urban campuses in the Carolinas IMO.

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With UNCC's enrollment rising each year, and it can't build buildings fast enough on the 1000 acres that it owns in the Northeast I am not sure why you would say this. It seems to me that in terms of growth, they are one of the most successful universities in the USA at the moment. The only thing holding it back is the availability of funds from the state.

Well, I've said before, I think they ARE doing some significant things right in pursuing a strong institutional reputation, including their participation in the multi-billion dollar campus expansions that are taking place throughout the whole UNC system and NC community colleges. Attempts to fix the major errors in the University City neighborhood's design will also help.

(Mostly it was just a half-hearted attempt a segueing back to the original topic).

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29 is going to be interesting upon buildout of the Research Campus.

http://www.charlotteresearchinstitute.com/....asp?level1Id=2

(click that thing near the header that says "2005 Campus" a few times).

Certainly a much different direction than the one taken by NC State and its Centennial Campus.

The only thing holding it back is funds from the state

Indeed, I don't know why exactly this is the case, but the university is near the bottom in funding per student. Maybe the new President of the UNC System, Charlotte resident Bowles (even though he is an UNCCH grad) will help improve the situation. We have a new Chancellor too but we have not yet seen what he can do about this.

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...

Indeed, I don't know why exactly this is the case, but the university is near the bottom in funding per student. Maybe the new President of the UNC System, Charlotte resident Bowles (even though he is an UNCCH grad) will help improve the situation. We have a new Chancellor too but we have not yet seen what he can do about this.

I chalk this up to the usual reluctance for the state government to fund stuff in Charlotte.

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In that you are probably correct. Both are set in very nice places.

Well, nobody is gonna get their hopes up on that one. But one could always hope that with this "new urban plan" for N Tryon along with the further construction of CRI along 29 may help developers make University into a more "South Park"-like area. Although I doubt this will happen, it can't hurt to hope for it. As the University expands, they are going to be forced to incorporate more into the area as it grows as well. The "Master Plan" for the University keeps it within its wooded boundaries, so it will never be street front like USC or even State. I like that about campus, it makes the campus more separated and beautiful (aside from the piles of construction.) Urban campuses tend to not be as aesthetically appealing.

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Most of the urban campuses I've seen are quite aesthetically appealing, including USC and CofC. Such campuses tend to be older, thus adding to the character and charm of the city. Even those located in traditional neighborhoods some distance away from center city are really nice, like Queens College and Emory in Atlanta.

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Chapel Hill has a top ten nationally ranked undergraduate nursing program, so I don't know why you would rather go to UNCC, if given the choice.

Slightly off topic, but what UNCC (and Charlotte, in general) REALLY needs is a nationally ranked research-oriented Medical School. It steams me that I am choosing between St. Louis and Baltimore (great cities, dont get me wrong) for where to go for my fellowship, when I am SO ready to come back to the QC and start settling down.

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Because they don't have a higher pass rate on the nursing exam than UNCC. So it isn't worth the premium.

Not that I know anything about Nursing schools, but typically there are many complex reasons for high ranks for programs beyond simple test results. Research funding is a major part of that, which allows for access to professors with strong research and publishing reputation.

But just from a cursory google comparing pass rates, I'm not so sure the UNCC has the same pass rates as Chapel Hill (Although it seems to be doing very well compared to many other schools).

http://www.ncbon.com/LicStat-PassRates.asp

UNC-Chapel Hill

BSN

2001: 94

2002: 94

2003: 93

2004: 97

2005: 94

UNC-Charlotte

BSN

2001: 94

2002: 86

2003: 89

2004: 72

2005: 77

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It is interesting to see the variance year over year at most of the schools, (although, at a glance CH seemed to have the lowest variance). Even Duke went from 100 to 85 the following year.

Anyway, I don't mean to bring up anything negative on UNCC. Overall, their numbers seem to meet national averages. The schools in North Carolina seems to consistently be near over exceeding national averages.

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I stand corrected. It would seem that UNCC is in decline with its pass rate in the BSN program. It is interesting however that according to that link UNC is not any better than UNC-W and East Carolina.

Again, pass rates are only one factor which figures into national rankings and an individual's choice in school/program. I am choosing between neonatal fellowship programs and I didn't even bother to ask what outgoing fellow's pass rates have been. I am more interested in their research output and job placement.

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Indeed it is individual choice. I note that you questioned my choice so I provided a criteria as you have for deciding upon a school to attend. The original statement that I made was in regard to this post, which I certainly don't believe.

Believing that UNCC or any of the branches for that matter will ever equal or outshine Chapel Hill even if the name is changed is not realistic.
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The original statement that I made was in regard to this post, which I certainly don't believe.

Sure, it could happen. Don't expect it to happen overnight though. As somebody had stated earlier, universities' reputations take decades upon decades to achieve.

There are examples of universities rising up out of nowhere though. I think the best example is UAB. They are a similar school to UNC-C (although a bit closer to the center city.) The difference is they chose to do ONE thing REALLY well, that being their medical school. Their med school was concieved in the 50's or 60's and now is a nationally ranked top 25 medical school with loads of NIH funded research, comparable to a Chapel Hill or a UVa.

Granted, thats still a poor comparison considering Tuscaloosa (the "main" branch) doesn't have a medical campus, so less pieces of the pie to cut in terms of funding.

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UNC Charlotte should change its name to The University of Charlotte without question. Focus on developing a superior program in business by leveraging the fact that it is the main university in the financial capital of the southeast. Do it now, and grow in prestige along with the city. Concurrently, develop a superior program in life sciences to capitalize on the research center they are building in Kannapolis. Focus additionally on engineering and use the motorsports resources. Leverage these along with the currently sufficient programs it now has. Begin now to develop a 1-AA football program to ultimately turn into a 1-A program in the next 10 years.

Focus on creating a world-class campus in the University area with extensive facilities both Uptown (as they are planning) and in Kannapolis. Simple shuttle service is sufficient to maintain connectivity, much like Duke University has with the East and West campuses.

Folks, tying our star to the "UNC" prefix is a losing strategy. Just because you might get a glimpse of recognition in California when you say "UNC" only to get a "Oh, so not REALLY UNC" look when you finish with "Charlotte" won't cut it. What you perceive as an advantage of being affiliated with UNC Chapel Hill is diluted by the fact that you are also compared with UNC Pembroke, etc. Charlotte is a great city, and growing every day. Now is the time to distinguish UNC Charlotte and the city by affiliating the two more closely.

Case in point:

"Believing that UNCC or any of the branches for that matter will ever equal or outshine Chapel Hill even if the name is changed is not realistic."

UNC Charlotte is NOT a *branch* of UNC Chapel Hill. This sort of mistake will plague the university until it removes the "UNC" prefix from its name. UNC Charlotte is a unique state university with absolutely NO affiliation with Chapel Hill what so ever. This differs from the South Carolina system, where USC-Aikin is indeed a branch of the USC Columbia university.

There is no doubt in my mind that simply changing the name of UNC Charlotte to University of Charlotte will have profound ramifications for both the university and the city.

As for CPCC, I am personally hesitant to call for it to change its name. I think people underestimate the value of having such a high quality instituation focused on two-year degrees in Charlotte. The skills it teaches, and the student body it attracts, are critical for Charlotte to have a well-trained work force. For it to begin focusing on four year programs is, in my opinion, unnecessary.

Sorry to rant. As a transplant to Charlotte who has grown to love the city and a current masters student at UNC Charlotte, I have a bit of a passion on this subject.

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One problem I've always had with UNCC is its lacking in defining its place within NC. Chapel Hill's history and prestige give it a natural since of place and identity. Appalachian takes full advantage of its namesake and mountain location to provide a niche for itself within the UNC system by truly giving students an experience of living in a new environment. ASU does this by taking strong advantage of the outdoor opportunities the mountains offer and the unique cultural offerings of the mountain area. When you at ASU or even Chapel Hill you know where you are and what it's all about. UNCC and other UNCs don't do as good of a job achieving this, if they attempt to at all. Charlotte is unique within the state. Kids that grew up in rural parts of NC view Charlotte as "the big city" and that could be a huge drawing factor for the university. UNCC should work harder to build an urban experience for its students much like Johnson and Wales has. I think with the possibility of rail based transit linking the University with our center city UNCC should work to offer urban student housing uptown, possibly even a 20 floor or so student apartment building. This may be the only time these students will know what its like to live in a 20 floor building in a major city and kids from Wilkesboro or Rockingham may really be excited about attending a school that can offer them that sort of "big city" experience that they've never had. They should work harder to turn their students into urban explorers by highlighting neighborhoods in Charlotte like NoDa, Plaza-Midwood, and Dilworth the way ASU highlights the unique offerings around App. Before going to App I had required reading on Appalachian culture and we had to, as part of our freshman experience, visit all sorts of outdoor places and cultural institutions that were unique to the high country. I don't believe UNCC encourages this kind of "learn the environment your living in and involve yourself in it" experience. They seem fine with keeping the students far away in their bland suburban home only to experience area strip malls and Concord Mills. Am I wrong? Does UNCC encourage, even possibly require students to learn about and explore Charlotte?

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They seem fine with keeping the students far away in their bland suburban home only to experience area strip malls and Concord Mills. Am I wrong? Does UNCC encourage, even possibly require students to learn about and explore Charlotte?

UNCC requires its students learn what is needed to get an education in the field of their choice. I don't believe there would be too much interest in getting students in very demanding programming, engineering, nursing, etc majors to be taking field trips to tour the neighborhoods of Charlotte. Possibly there might be some value to the architecture college, but I think you guys are faulting the school for items that it obviously has nothing to do with.

The school is only 45 years old and it has grown to one of the largest in the state and may soon be THE largest in the state. They must be doing something right. If anything it should be the city of Charlotte reaching out to the school, not the other way around.

By the way, Dilworth, Eastover, Myers Park and Elizabeth are all suburban as well. In fact 95% of all of the neighborhoods in Charlotte are suburban as the CBD only has about 10,000 residents. This in a metro of over 2 million people.

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Focus on creating a world-class campus in the University area with extensive facilities both Uptown (as they are planning) and in Kannapolis. Simple shuttle service is sufficient to maintain connectivity, much like Duke University has with the East and West campuses.

Duke East and West are about a mile apart, and connected by a contiguous strip of campus.

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One problem I've always had with UNCC is its lacking in defining its place within NC. Chapel Hill's history and prestige give it a natural since of place and identity. Appalachian takes full advantage of its namesake and mountain location to provide a niche for itself within the UNC system by truly giving students an experience of living in a new environment. ASU does this by taking strong advantage of the outdoor opportunities the mountains offer and the unique cultural offerings of the mountain area. When you at ASU or even Chapel Hill you know where you are and what it's all about. UNCC and other UNCs don't do as good of a job achieving this, if they attempt to at all. Charlotte is unique within the state. Kids that grew up in rural parts of NC view Charlotte as "the big city" and that could be a huge drawing factor for the university. UNCC should work harder to build an urban experience for its students much like Johnson and Wales has. I think with the possibility of rail based transit linking the University with our center city UNCC should work to offer urban student housing uptown, possibly even a 20 floor or so student apartment building. This may be the only time these students will know what its like to live in a 20 floor building in a major city and kids from Wilkesboro or Rockingham may really be excited about attending a school that can offer them that sort of "big city" experience that they've never had. They should work harder to turn their students into urban explorers by highlighting neighborhoods in Charlotte like NoDa, Plaza-Midwood, and Dilworth the way ASU highlights the unique offerings around App. Before going to App I had required reading on Appalachian culture and we had to, as part of our freshman experience, visit all sorts of outdoor places and cultural institutions that were unique to the high country. I don't believe UNCC encourages this kind of "learn the environment your living in and involve yourself in it" experience. They seem fine with keeping the students far away in their bland suburban home only to experience area strip malls and Concord Mills. Am I wrong? Does UNCC encourage, even possibly require students to learn about and explore Charlotte?

Don't bash it til you try it. Most students on campus weekly go to uptown to go out. Chapel Hill and App aren't in huge urban environments, but neither is Charlotte. Charlotte is too suburban to really emphasize its location in Charlotte's uptown. Thus, you can't really promote that. And please, tell me one school where there are 20 story dorms. The four 12 story dorms that give you a view of all Charlotte at the top are risky enough that they are being torn down within the decade as part of the school's Master Plan. They are being replaced with a semi-circle of shorter dorms when the main entrance is being made more upscale from what it currently is, that project is due to be started within the next two years. That leaves Atkins Library as the only tall functional structure on campus at 12 1/2 stories (I don't count the Elevator Shaft operation and maintenance room at the top as a full story.)

And, not to offend your alma mater, but Charlotte is much more "nationally known" that App is country wide. App is only known in this region. Go up to Maryland and ask somebody where Appalachian St University is. Out of the ten+ states that the Appalachian Mtns go through, saying you are in the App. Mts. doesn't exactly pinpoint your location. Otherwise Charlotte might be known as Piedmont University, which would not go over well at all.

The college I went to in Australia claimed its proximity to downtown Sydney, when in fact, it was actually further from there than UNCC is to uptown. That was highly disappointing when I arrived there, but that didn't keep me from going there almost daily on my own power. Thus, if UNCC advertised its "Urban atmosphere" they would be laughed out of the UNC system. NC State is probably the most "urban" campus. Charlotte is working on it, but for now it is still SUBurban.

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