Sabaidee

Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

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5 hours ago, kermit said:

and if cities and utility companies stopped transferring the cost of updating their infrastructure onto transit projects then it would be much cheaper to build. 

Bingo! If you remove the cost of all the storm water, sewer and utility replacement/relocation the cost goes down dramatically.

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Removing the infrastructure would make the tracks cheaper, but it exponentially more expensive and inconvenient to maintain/upgrade the underground utilities. Government needs to think about the big picture when spending taxpayer money, not just cost savings for one department.

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3 hours ago, Spartan said:

Removing the infrastructure would make the tracks cheaper, but it exponentially more expensive and inconvenient to maintain/upgrade the underground utilities. Government needs to think about the big picture when spending taxpayer money, not just cost savings for one department.

I do not mind the infra projects being done at the same time - I just do not like the costs of infra upgrades being rolled into a transit project.  Infrastructure projects need to have their own budgets and their own funding.

Also, from the CATS meeting on Phase 1 of Gold Line - they said that the utility upgrades will allow for future utility work (even emergency ones) to not shut down operation of the street car.

Time will tell if that is accurate or how well it was designed and built.

 

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I was under the assumption that the City is funding the infrastructure work separately... it's just tied to the streetcar construction due to the coordination that's needed. I could be wrong about that assumption, but it's a somewhat muddy process in terms of how the financing works.

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I am sure that there's a really simple answer, and it might have been addressed in this thread earlier, but I have not been able to find it.  I noticed yesterday that on Elizabeth Avenue, the center-most rail for both east and west bound is recessed an inch or two below street level.  It seems like the depression is not quite as wide as a car tire, which I think finally explains why I hate driving on Elizabeth.  It's really hard to drive and keep your left tire in that depression, so you end up driving left of it (uncomfortably close to the centerline), or right of it (bike lane).  Or worse, you end up weaving left and right as you go.  

Any idea why they built it that way?  From streetview, it looks like they only did that on Elizabeth between Kings and Hawthorne

5a292d996ab87_ElizabethAve.thumb.png.2b92ac2cc04bb24c681d1bb6bb850bc6.png

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I would think that maybe the  road slopes for drainage, but the rails have to be level.  It was probably a design flaw that they corrected for the following phase.

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3 minutes ago, archiham04 said:

I would think that maybe the  road slopes for drainage, but the rails have to be level.  It was probably a design flaw that they corrected for the following phase.

Thanks for that.  I forgot that it was built in phases.  The Elizabeth section was built before the Trade street part.  

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Once upon a time, construction plans for the Gold Line could be found on the CATS website. Does anyone know where those might still be? I was hoping to reference it for some specific station layout information. 

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15 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

Once upon a time, construction plans for the Gold Line could be found on the CATS website. Does anyone know where those might still be? I was hoping to reference it for some specific station layout information. 

I would try Kievmeck.org

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5 hours ago, teeg said:

I am sure that there's a really simple answer, and it might have been addressed in this thread earlier, but I have not been able to find it.  I noticed yesterday that on Elizabeth Avenue, the center-most rail for both east and west bound is recessed an inch or two below street level.  It seems like the depression is not quite as wide as a car tire, which I think finally explains why I hate driving on Elizabeth.  It's really hard to drive and keep your left tire in that depression, so you end up driving left of it (uncomfortably close to the centerline), or right of it (bike lane).  Or worse, you end up weaving left and right as you go.  

Any idea why they built it that way?  From streetview, it looks like they only did that on Elizabeth between Kings and Hawthorne

5a292d996ab87_ElizabethAve.thumb.png.2b92ac2cc04bb24c681d1bb6bb850bc6.png

The automotive term is "tramlining" when a driver finds a tire in the depression of a street rail and the tire tends to follow the rail rather than the input from the steering. Most well known in Prague where street rails are ubiquitous. Can also be when there is another kind of difference in street surface such as asphalt between cobbles or such variations that restrict the smooth progress of the tire and wheel despite driver input. Americans are unfamiliar with this feature, Europeans less so.

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32 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

The automotive term is "tramlining" when a driver finds a tire in the depression of a street rail and the tire tends to follow the rail rather than the input from the steering. Most well known in Prague where street rails are ubiquitous. Can also be when there is another kind of difference in street surface such as asphalt between cobbles or such variations that restrict the smooth progress of the tire and wheel despite driver input. Americans are unfamiliar with this feature, Europeans less so.

I get what you are saying, but I think I experience the opposite effect on Elizabeth.  Because of that recessed bit on the left being narrower than my tire, the vehicle does not want to follow the track.  The tire wants to steer me out of it, and because that's a really unstable feeling, I tend to avoid that track entirely.  

I found some old photos from when the tracks were installed on Elizabeth, and they definitely did it that way on purpose.  The new sections at on Hawthorne and Traded did not include that recess.  Some sort of drainage feature would make sense, and I could not be sure that they were not building in some sort of flexibility that would allow them to run different types of trains in the future.  

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Also I think they tried something  new by putting drainage under the track as part of the storm water system.

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