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Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network


Sabaidee

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"Plus, we are considered a role model of transit systems,

No, Denver is a role model of transit systems. Portland is a role model of transit systems. Chicago is a role model of transit systems.

I want to know what city this guy has been living in because it sure as hell isn't Charlotte.

Edited by queensguy06
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If they ever do start construction, I sure hope it doesn't take as long as it has on Elizabeth Ave. How many years now has that work been going on???

Keep in mind that it was not really about laying in the tracks. That was simply a tiny part of the project. It was predominantly a streetscape and utilities project in which they rebuilt some underground utilities, burying power and communications lines, in addition to rebuilding the street and sidewalks. Also, it hasn't really taken that long for the actual construction. They simply had lots of delays in starting, which was okay because Grubb's projects were delayed too. Ironically, the streetcar was originally expected to start construction in 2009 in the 2025 plan, but was deprioritized in order to avoid massive inflation costs on the Blue Line extension.

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Keep in mind that it was not really about laying in the tracks. That was simply a tiny part of the project. It was predominantly a streetscape and utilities project in which they rebuilt some underground utilities, burying power and communications lines, in addition to rebuilding the street and sidewalks. Also, it hasn't really taken that long for the actual construction. They simply had lots of delays in starting, which was okay because Grubb's projects were delayed too. Ironically, the streetcar was originally expected to start construction in 2009 in the 2025 plan, but was deprioritized in order to avoid massive inflation costs on the Blue Line extension.

Yeah, the street has only been worked on since Summer, when it closed down. Considering they tore the road out down to dirt and redid everything while keeping in mind that they needed to keep much open and for pedestrians. I think they delayed it while they were playing games with trying to get the Streetcar moved quicker, plus the rest of the project established, which is why Grubb wanted to place the streetcar rails in himself afterall.

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They're planning to continue to lay tracks from Charlottetown to Hawthorne now, right?
I am pretty sure this track laying project is limited just the section of Elizabeth between Kings and Charlottetown (old Independence Blvd). So the answer to your question is no, unless the city recently changed its plans. This was done to take advantage of the re-development work there. As mentioned above, the Streetcar Line was de-prioritized in favor of building the NE Extension and North Line after the decision was made to lay this short section of tracks.
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Per the city website, this project will continue all the way to Hawthorne. I believe Grubb is paying a portion of the cost so that the work would be completed in front of his properties to not muck up the area once/if he ever really gets underway.

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/City+E...n/elizabeth.htm

I voiced criticism of the concrete street AND sidewalks earlier, and I maintain that, but on a positive, the area does look significantly better than before. If only all the streets in the core had received similar treatments at their inception, then we'd had a pretty decent streetscape infrastructure.

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I took a look at this this weekend and I agree that the concrete sidewalk was an unfortunate choice given the concrete street. I suspect though that this project will also include some street furniture that will help break up the monotone we see now.

I sometimes wonder whether concrete like this can be stained like they do now in many interiors of places (like a few Harris Teeters). Not that pinkish color trying to look like brick, but a brown shade might look pretty good. But whatever.

I think having the rails will help broaden public imagination about having streetcars here, similar to how the trolley broadened the imagination to have rail transit in general. I think most people don't imagine the future possibilities in the same way as many of us do, so this really helps in that.

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I agree this area does look a lot better and once they get all the plantings in this spring that will help break of the monotony of the concrete.

The other good thing is that I think this will really help "sell" the streercar project to the public since they can come and see what the rails and poles look like. It is a lot easier to sell something people can see and touch.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

They have been talking about a starter project that would run from the CTC station and then wrap around the Time Warner arena on 5th and Caldwell...then follow Trade towards Presbyterian and the existing tracks on Elizabeth. This starter project would cost about $30M. The risk it runs is that it could be low ridership and therefore not stimulate expansion of the streetcar in the future.

I really think for a first phase of the streetcar they would need to run from JCSU to Presbyterian.

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They have been talking about a starter project that would run from the CTC station and then wrap around the Time Warner arena on 5th and Caldwell...then follow Trade towards Presbyterian and the existing tracks on Elizabeth. This starter project would cost about $30M. The risk it runs is that it could be low ridership and therefore not stimulate expansion of the streetcar in the future.

I really think for a first phase of the streetcar they would need to run from JCSU to Presbyterian.

agreed. i mean i would use it if i were going to a show at the visulite or double door (how late would it run?), but without at least going through gateway and jcsu it wouldn't actually facilitate much livability improvement for anyone

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why would they want to wrap the arena with the streetcar? it makes no sense to me

They would do that so that they can connect the rails on Trade/Elizabeth Street with the existing South Line.... that way the Streetcars would have a way to get back to the Maintenance Facility just south of New Bern station.

If/When they build out the Streetcar line the plan is for the Streetcar to have its own maintenance facility possbily at Beatties Ford and 85.

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If it could operate as one continuous trip from Tremont to Presbyterian I think there could be a lot of potential riders that would enjoy the sort of cross town access. Just running from the arena to presby would be sort of a puppet line.

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Would the track-wye on 5th by the Arena be able to accommodate a future Independence corridor connection? If so, then it wouldn't seem such a throw-away once the streetcar continued on Trade past CTC. Then again, it may be nice to always have a non-revenue connection to a larger maintenance facility (someday multiple, if Northeast adds one on the intermodal site). There again, it would likely add to costs to be LRT-compatible. Besides, CPCC is still fighting whether any rapid transit serving East Charlotte could go on 5th Street, and they successfully had the curb radius at Charlottetowne and Elizabeth designed so that it could also accommodate light rail.

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  • 3 months later...

CBJ has an article about the possibility of introducing the South End Trolley on a segment of the proposed streetcar line. I think everyone at UP has been calling for this for a while - and now the idea appears to be gaining some momentum. It seems the only real opposition comes in the fact that Charlotte Trolley who doesn't want to lose the use of their brand new Trolley Museum.

Edited by The Escapists
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There's a lot of logistical questions that arise... like where do they store and do maintenance on the trolleys? Its only 4 or 5 blocks worth of track right now, so one car may be enough to get by until the track is expanded.

I remember a while back this being discussed. I think the consensus was that for this partial line to be useful, it would need to run from Hawthorne to CTC. However, it was noted that the line would need to run around the arena to connect with the current line. This would allow for the trolleys to get to service facilities on the Blue line.

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Yes, I think the idea is to yet again spend a modest sum ($20m) which would reduce some of the work that would need to be done on the streetcar eventually. It would end up piloting the line similar to how the original trolley line piloted the Lynx Blue Line.

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Wow I can't believe that I didn't remember that concept. I think its a good first step to get street car rolling. It will be interesting to see if CATS can do anything about it.

There was talk of using generators on the trolleys so they wouldn't need overhead wires. I would think that would only be a short term solution. To remove the cost of installing overhead wires, they could use (hydrogen powered trolleys). This proposal was discussed at the hydrail conference in Charlotte in June.

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Savannah reused some old trolleys with diesel engines to successfully revialize their riverfront.

And it seems that - well - if these trolleys are only running about 4 (or maybe 10 blocks) - how much service do they really need? Couldn't they service the trolley at off hours (on the street)?

More than anything, the idea would be to help gain momentum on the streetcar plan. I've had a couple friends who don't quite "get" the new tracks in Elizabeth. They asked "does this mean I can't drive on Elizabeth anymore?" This would help them understand how the line is going to work.

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