Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[Deleted.]

26 minutes ago, charlottegirl said:

Thought this was interesting.  The article specifically mentions Charlotte as an eligible city.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/smart-cities-challenge-transportation-prize_56660184e4b08e945ff09aaf

With no NC behind it! Yay! What's interesting is that if we had 50,000 more people living within city limits we wouldn't be able to enter! How crazy is that? 

[archiham04]

17 hours ago, Spartan said:

Nope definitely streetcar.  It's pre-bus  when busses were first introduced in Charlotte they followed the exact same routes as the streetcar. 

So the 1935 map shows streetcars 3 years before the 1938 final run for car #85... I wonder how many tracks were built between 1935 and 1938?  I feel like Central had Trolley tracks that extended further than shown on the 1935map.  Some of my neighbors collected portions as keepsakes when Central was repaved, and I think it was down toward Tippah, maybe as far east as Morningside.  Anyone know?  If they were expanded there, I wonder where else they were expanded?

[Spartan]

On 12/10/2015 at 10:02 AM, kermit said:

FWIW, Atlanta just approved a new streetcar system expansion plan for 50 additional miles of streetcars, nut only 22 miles of will run in dedicated ROW on the belt line. I kinda doubt the full plan will be funded since the full plan needs to pass a referrenda on a new transit sales tax next year, but its interesting that a dramatically expanded streetcar network is the direction Atlanta wants to move in. 

http://commuting.blog.ajc.com/2015/12/09/atlanta-approves-streetcar-expansion-plan/

For the record, I do think streetcar service on the beltline and some short extensions to connect to MARTA stations are a great idea for Atlanta. The cross town routes they propose might be logical connections, but in the absence of dedicated ROW, the seem kinda futile.

That is impressive. Perhaps we need to change our mantra of "we don't want to be like Atlanta."

[Deleted.]

On December 10, 2015 at 3:02 PM, kermit said:

FWIW, Atlanta just approved a new streetcar system expansion plan for 50 additional miles of streetcars, nut only 22 miles of will run in dedicated ROW on the belt line. I kinda doubt the full plan will be funded since the full plan needs to pass a referrenda on a new transit sales tax next year, but its interesting that a dramatically expanded streetcar network is the direction Atlanta wants to move in. 

http://commuting.blog.ajc.com/2015/12/09/atlanta-approves-streetcar-expansion-plan/

For the record, I do think streetcar service on the beltline and some short extensions to connect to MARTA stations are a great idea for Atlanta. The cross town routes they propose might be logical connections, but in the absence of dedicated ROW, the seem kinda futile.

Why does the plan involve 3 lines that run along side each other? Maybe we can aspire to something similar, with numerous lines! 

[archiham04]

^ I doubt they have 3 lines side by side... it is more likely that these are 3 routes that utilize the same line.

[kermit]

Nice, and short, piece on the political aspects of the streetcar at Charlotte mag: 

http://www.charlottemagazine.com/Charlotte-Magazine/December-2015/Opinion-The-Gold-Line-as-Repayment-of-a-Debt/

the pending Civil Rights lawsuit on the Baltimore Red Line (discussed briefly in the above) is an interesting turn of events for transit projects which serve low income communities.

Edited December 22, 2015 by kermit

[kermit]

CATS has stored all three streetcars on the 5th street non-revenue track since the Blue Line has been shut down for construction for four days. Hats-off to CATS for doing this (they have halted the Goldline for previous Blue Line construction). I saw four streetcar trips today (the day after Christmas) and all of them were very crowded (meaning about 3/4 of the seats were filled). The prime demographic of riders appears to break down like this: 

1) Grandparents with the tiny grandkids
2) Parents out with little kids (the parents video the trip while the grandparents do not)
3) Commuters from Cherry and secondarily the hospital
4) Folks going to lunch at Earls or Viva Chicken
5) I have never seen it in action while CPCC was in action so....

(picture below is of #92 in storage on the 5th street connector while the other two vehicles ran the normal route)

#Craneporn

Edited December 27, 2015 by kermit

[kermit]

Has anyone heard anything about the Letter of No Prejudice from the FTA for Phase II? The last CATS quarterly report from early December said CATS had not recieved it yet, could be nothing or could be hinky.

[dubone]

Good question.  I'm surprised that this has not been solidified at this point.  I'm confused what is left before this a done deal.  

 

[uptownliving]

From Friday's Council/Manager Memo:

The Charlotte Area Transit System has achieved another milestone in the CityLYNX Gold Line Phase 2 Streetcar Project. While the Federal Transit Administration’s (FTA) Small Starts grant has not yet been awarded, the FTA has granted CATS a Letter of No Prejudice (LONP) to begin the vehicle procurement process.
This LONP gives CATS the pre-award authority to begin vehicle procurement that is a lengthy process and is essential to completing the project by late 2019. This pre-award authority ensures that expenses incurred in the procurement of the vehicles will be eligible for reimbursement once the final Small Starts Grant is awarded. Based upon the current schedule, the City Council award of the vehicle contract is anticipated to be in July, 2016 after a final Small Starts Grant is awarded.
Through the vehicle procurement process, CATS is seeking acquisition of seven modern streetcars with an option for off-wire operation. The completed Phase 2 project will be a 4-mile operating system with seven modern streetcars.

Edited January 12, 2016 by uptownliving

[dubone]

This has certainly been covered before in this topic, but seeing it in writing as part of the plans is quite exciting.  The vehicle specifications will include some wireless ability, primarily for the section from the Blue line to Church.  In theory other sections might deserve the wirefree treatment too, but I suspect our Phase 1+2 streetcar will only have this short center section due to the uphill and the need to charge the batteries in between. 

Luckily, Washington, DC's planning regulations have teeth and banned overhead wires with only a temporary waiver for the streetcar there, so the streetcar vehicle manufacturers have needed to include this feature in their designs.  

As a result, we can now keep The Square  overhead wire free, which is a very good thing.  

"_{The vehicle design consultant, LTK, has developed a draft vehicle specification based on the project design criteria and the needs of the project. CATS sent out a Request for Information to the vehicle manufacturers to determine if any manufacturers had a vehicle that could climb the 6% grade on the project without catenary wire. Four vehicle manufacturers responded by the August 30, 2015 deadline that their product could. An additional manufacturer also responded that their vehicle could for a total of 5 potential vehicles. The draft vehicle specification includes a wireless vehicle option. Because of the long lead times for vehicles and the new technology of wireless, CATS requested a LONP to advance the vehicle procure process on October 5, 2015. The draft specification is continuing to be reviewed.}" 

Page 113 http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/Documents/FTA%20Quarterly/FTA-Quarterly-Agenda-151202.pdf

 

It seems with the new confirmation that the letter of no prejudice is in hand, we can start ordering the vehicles with the city money while we wait for the federal appropriation.   The fact that this is now confirmed by the FTA to just be a matter of time is a very good thing.  

 

 

The dearth of organized Phase II details on the Charmeck.org website is somewhat irritating.  Charlotte Future still mainly focuses on the now complete Phase I and of course CATS treats the Gold line as the red-headed stepchild, so they only have a description/map page and no additional artifacts on the engineering or FTA submissions, etc.  

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/planning/GoldLine/Phase%202/Pages/default.aspx

[dcharlotte]

24 minutes ago, dubone said:

Luckily, Washington, DC's planning regulations have teeth and banned overhead wires with only a temporary waiver for the streetcar there, so the streetcar vehicle manufacturers have needed to include this feature in their designs.  

If only DC's streetcar would open sometime this decade. I hope CATS and every transit organization has learned from every mistake made in DC for opening a streetcar. 

[Deleted.]

2 hours ago, dubone said:

As a result, we can now keep The Square  overhead wire free, which is a very good thing.  

This is going to sound very odd, but I don't like wireless streetcars, I just don't. I think a streetcar should just operate on wire, without it, it looks out of place. 

EDIT- Can the Siemens S70 Streetcar be built as wireless?

EDIT2- When will we know what manufacturer had been selected?

EDIT3- I've read about problems with Seattle's new streetcar line, where the wireless streetcars have faced many problems such as water leaking into the battery- doesn't make me confident about wireless technology. 

Edited January 12, 2016 by Piedmont767

[dubone]

These wireless are just for short sections.   They are not going to be fully wireless.   But once horseless carriages looked out of place with no horse in front.    It is better for the city to have the streetcar with as many sections as possible without caternaries.   They're organized wires, so they don't look as visually bad as all the ugly powerlines, but it is still better to not have them. 

 

Problems with earlier versions of a new model would mean the engineers will have corrected the problems now.   This is 2016.  Adding a battery to a train is not exactly something we need to smuggle in scientists from other countries to figure out. 

 

There will be an RFP and a selection.  So far 5 vehicle manufacturers include the feature.  The Siemens S70 seems like the no brainer because it matches our current Lynx, but if they don't have a feature that benefits the requirements of the design, then it isn't the right one.  

[DEnd]

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 10:48 AM, Piedmont767 said:

This is going to sound very odd, but I don't like wireless streetcars, I just don't. I think a streetcar should just operate on wire, without it, it looks out of place.  

I don't care about the looks as much as the cost.  The basic reason we want wireless is so that we don't have to remove the wire across Tryon for parades.  If that's the only reason we are using it, then we need to evaluate the cost of removing the wire for parades against the cost of the battery and its maintenance and replacement.  I like the idea, I'm just not sure it is worth it. 

[kermit]

Wanted to note that the Gold Line has been running for about 6 months now and (other than a couple of teething pains) we have heard _very_ few complaints about it impeding traffic or being a nuisance to cars.

[Deleted.]

19 hours ago, kermit said:

Wanted to note that the Gold Line has been running for about 6 months now and (other than a couple of teething pains) we have heard _very_ few complaints about it impeding traffic or being a nuisance to cars.

I wonder what ridership is like now?

[CoffeeSamurai]

Ridership has been growing each week as far as I can tell. When I started riding at the beginning, I was the only person at the stop (Elizabeth). Now I there are sometimes up to 10 of us. Hopefully making the case for Earls to open up a touch earlier for coffee service.

[Deleted.]

Any news about Phase 2? SSGA? 

[kermit]

^last date I heard for the signed SSGA was early March.

Edited February 11, 2016 by kermit

[dubone]

I rode last week on a nice little walk-ride adventure with a friend.   We walked to the arena, got on and then walked Kings and the greenway to Maharani.  

The streetcar failed just before our stop at the driver had walk to the back and 'reboot' it before we could get off.   On the ride back from CPCC it was a long wait and then when the streetcar arrived had to wait for 2 cars in street parking spots over the line with drivers IN THEM waiting to pick up friends.     Both of those two drivers had no idea how to fix their parallel parking and then did not seem to want to give up and leave and when they finally did, took them forever to get out of the spaces.    It was absolutely soul-crushing to watch their stupidity, but equally so in the fact that the "line" is not the real indicator of whether the streetcar could get through, which it physically could have (there should be a laser sensor so that it does not have to hold up the line).  I am sure this happens daily.

But there were maybe 20 people waiting at the stop after dinner (maybe 9:30p) at CPCC stop.   

Another minor irritation from a riding point of view is that the streetcar often must wait for a red light at Alexander Street, which rarely has cars crossing.   There should at least be a sensor so that it gives Trade green unless it is needed.  I hope Phase II gives more coordination with the lights.  Even if the streetcar does not always have green, it should at least get enough priority to not need to sit at a barely used intersection for a full minute.  

Overall the adventure was still good and worth it for the exercise and use of transit.  But it would definitely not have been worth $2.20 at that trip duration.     Phase II will need to improve the efficiency of the travel time to be worth the fare.  

I can't wait for the the SSGA signature to make the next phase official.   

[kermit]

On 10/8/2015 at 11:39 AM, uptownliving said:

The city is expecting FTA approval and funding for Phase 2 in March 2016.

At this point the signed SSGA agreement for Phase 2 is merely a formality (thanks to the previously received letter of no prejudice which allowed CATS to begin vehicle procurement) but it will be nice for Phase 2 to be 'official.'

Edited February 29, 2016 by kermit

[SgtCampsalot]

My guts are going to be in a twist until I know for certain whether the city will be going for Phase 3 next, or another line. Though the state's LRT-ban might make that pretty simple... (so I guess it will be between Phase 3 and the Airport line?)

Edited February 29, 2016 by SgtCampsalot

[CLTProductions]

Construction begins in the fall. Here is the gateway stop. 

[tozmervo]

The CityLYNX website has a few other images as well: http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/planning/GoldLine/Phase%202/Pages/default.aspx

Edited February 29, 2016 by tozmervo