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Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network


Sabaidee

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2 hours ago, kermit said:

 

5) Phase I service will be shut down in mid-late 2019 for 6-9 months for platform reconstruction

http://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/gold-line/Pages/phase-two.aspx

 

This is f.u.c.k.i.n.g lunacy. First they didn't build the light rail platforms big enough. Now they have to tear up the streets along Elizabeth avenue AGAIN. The construction nearly killed Carpe Diem the first time, I interviewed them for an article in February. The owner said she was dreading the next set of construction... I kind of passed this off as an odd comment, but apparently she must have known. I might write an article beotching about this.

 

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^ yeah, its not a surprise and it was a hidden cost of using the craptastic replica trollys for phase one -- it was never an option to build full height platforms while using those vehicles. The new trams will have level boarding (like the LRT) so taller platforms will need to be poured. I genuinely doubt that pouring six platforms and reinstalling the existing furniture will take more than a few weeks. I suspect that testing requirements will consume the remaining time (e.g. they will want to test the new vehicles over the entire line rather than just the new segments). On the bright side, since the construction should be limited to station sites hopefully the local disruption will be much less than building new tracks.

Edited by kermit
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I'm guessing the bridges over Brookshire and I-77 will prove to be a problem in the future once the Gold Line extends westward. It makes me wonder if phase three will focus more on Central Ave, and less on Beatties Ford.

And if you guys had to guess, how far out should the Gold Line be extended to during phase three? Eastway maybe?

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I think the next extension should be Rosa Parks to The Plaza at least and potentially to Eastway. This would complete the western leg (which really is not that much further) and get it to a true anchor on the east end. After that I'm a little skeptical about continuing all the way to Eastland.

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On 5/10/2017 at 4:38 PM, archiham04 said:

losing Hawthorne for 18 months to gain 200 feet of tracks is depressing.

It is disappointing that the Hawthorne routing was selected in the first place because the bridge was believed to be acceptable, but then having to redo the bridge after all.  If they were having to build a bridge, why not route 5th to Pecan and build a net new bridge that benefits cars and streetcar, or build a train-only bridge on a new location find a way to build something that will benefit the Silver line and get the transit closer to the heart of Midwood. 

The Barnhardt workaround should revert to their original plan of using the US74 right of way in the area as that is now the plan for the Silver line.   

I know it is hard to change plans mid-stream, but the minute that bridge-replacement surprise occurred, it should have caused them to revisit the routing in that area.   

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Phase three exists on the original maps only. There has been zero discussion of funding or engineering. Since it is outside the MTC plan it is not eligible for any sales tax funding so it will require either a new local tax or more free fed money (which aint happening in the current administration). I would be quite surprised to see phase 3 discussed at all before phase 2 opens. I also would not be surprised to see it omitted (or significantly restructured) in the next long term plan.

my vote is for an Eastway terminus, lots of underutilized land, both commercial and residential right there. Sub five minute frequencies are needed for it to be worth the investment IMO.

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46 minutes ago, wilmore said:

This is probably a hot take in this thread...but maybe the streetcars are not a good idea.

Tell me how this is better than a bus, aside from being cute. 

Its a much more comfortable experience. More space, more capacity, more ADA friendly, faster boarding, smoother ride. The question is whether or not that's enough to justify the cost.

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1 hour ago, wilmore said:

This is probably a hot take in this thread...but maybe the streetcars are not a good idea.

Tell me how this is better than a bus, aside from being cute. 

Plus:

rail transit can trigger changes in land use while buses do not (the perminance argument).

affluent people (choice riders) will consider switching to rail but are less likely to switch to bus (the get drivers out of cars argument)

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17 minutes ago, southslider said:

Land use gains look lost on Elizabeth still looking like a parking lot, while Veterans Park is quickly surrounded by stick-built product.

Unreliable 30 minute frequencies on a stub line will have that effect.

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9 hours ago, wilmore said:

This is probably a hot take in this thread...but maybe the streetcars are not a good idea.

Tell me how this is better than a bus, aside from being cute. 

Streetcars, in theory, are a good idea.  Our streetcar, from planning all the way through to execution (so far at least) is a dumpster fire.

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^ agree. It was slightly under budget and ridership was better than expected while it had fully functioning vehicles.

Thanks to substantial fed funding It was a cheap way for the city to start building an urban circulator. Unfortunately because of fed funding we had to spend 5 years with just the crappy starter segment. 

Phase 2 will be of significant benefit to the city provided that they run decent frequencies.

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Streetcars are a far better idea than crappy bouncy choppy buses.   The only reason we should look to articulated buses is because our society is cheap and throws only its lowest classes and lowest budgets at transit.     So the only way to change that trend is with better budgets and better planning to draw the middle and potentially higher demographic classes.   

The tram-style streetcar planned for 2020 will do better at pulling in riders and is already fulfilling its other mission of helping drive up real estate values in the west side.  

 

I was a proponent of (or at least I understood the reasons for) using the replica trolleys, but their terrible reliability really hurt the line, and made it useless, with trips taking far longer than necessary, and often walking faster than it. 

 

I think the real problem with the streetcar is the mixed traffic nature.   Just because we are using the same street doesn't mean we ought to use the same lanes.   I'm all for bicycles and cars and pedestrians on the same street, but they really ought to have different lanes and streetlight coordination.     We did the starter line on a shoestring budget, but as we progress to additional phases, we should be removing street parking in favor of dedicate lanes for the streetcar to improve reliability incrementally.  

 

Of course, none of this would be on any of our radar if there were proper transit funding, as separate right of way light rail or subway would be the preference.     But if we are so cheap as a society to only have buses, then I'll be ubering or cycling. 

 

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^ completely agree. The great tragedy of American urbanism is that we think about our built environment  being cheap or expensive on a 1-5 year time frame. In reality, rail transit investments have an 80 year lifespan and money thoughtlessly tossed into roads can F stuff up for a half century or more.

We will never get the city we want if we don't make sensible investments.

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