Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[videtur quam contuor]

I truly respect the operators of the modern rail cars. The Automatic Train Protocol means that cars, switches, signals and all other track and trackside operations are monitored and controlled from a central station and less is left to the operator short of emergency stop. Approaching 7th Street station you may see a sign trackside that says "end ATP" meaning the operator controls the car fully therefrom to full stop. EYES OPEN!

Nonetheless, having operated antique car 85 from Atherton to 277 I can say that with ANY car in today's built environment that the operator MUST have swivelling eyes and anticipate every eventuality. People do the most hopelessly inane things that risk themselves and others. We do not know how many close calls happen to the light rail but I venture that it is more than we would ever feel comfortable with. It scared the hell out of me and I had a police officer with me to assist, eyes, ears and voice.

To return to the earlier issue of this thread, transferring risk from auto drivers to passengers of transit certainly lowers the overall risk of commuting, travel, transit. Cost I can speak less confidently of.

Edited June 8, 2017 by tarhoosier

[archiham04]

I wish they could build a bus that looked like this in the us: 

[Synopsis101]

So who won the bid?

I really liked the Siemens S70 design.

[CLT704]

10 minutes ago, Synopsis101 said:

So who won the bid?

I really liked the Siemens S70 design.

 

Siemens. They won it back in November or December. 

[KJHburg]

This is interesting. Look at the cost of a trip on the streetcar vs a bus. 

"The previous leadership at CATS had said the streetcar would be cheaper to operate than a bus, but that hasn’t proven to be true, at least so far. In its last full year, the Gold Rush cost about $1.70 per trip for a journey that could be as long as four miles. The Gold Line streetcar has cost nearly $3.70 per trip on a journey that’s 1.5 miles – at the most."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article157862614.html#storylink=cpy

[elrodvt]

^ I wonder how much the old equipment plays into that?

[KJHburg]

1 minute ago, elrodvt said:

^ I wonder how much the old equipment plays into that?

I thought that after I posted it. Will the new cars be cheaper to operate?  And I hope smoother for that trolley car hurts my back with all its jerking and stopping. 

Edited June 25, 2017 by KJHburg

[kermit]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I thought that after I posted it. Will the new cars be cheaper to operate?  And I hope smoother for that trolley car hurts my back with all its jerking and stopping. 

More riders = lower per rider costs. More reliable vehicles will substantially reduce costs. 

[Desert Power]

20 hours ago, KJHburg said:

This is interesting. Look at the cost of a trip on the streetcar vs a bus. 

"The previous leadership at CATS had said the streetcar would be cheaper to operate than a bus, but that hasn’t proven to be true, at least so far. In its last full year, the Gold Rush cost about $1.70 per trip for a journey that could be as long as four miles. The Gold Line streetcar has cost nearly $3.70 per trip on a journey that’s 1.5 miles – at the most."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article157862614.html#storylink=cpy

Not at all surprised.

[cjd5050]

20 hours ago, elrodvt said:

^ I wonder how much the old equipment plays into that?

I assume a lot.  This is an 'empty' yet full trolley.  I think the seats on the lead are unreasonably expected for two people.  Man people were smaller back in the day.

[pathb]

Photo of the bridge closure from this morning at Hawthorne Lane.  As a resident who lives within a stones through of the bridge, I do wish they'd maintained ped and bike access until the last possible moment/demolition, but I did enjoy the most quiet several hours since moving in to our house - almost no traffic and no emergency vehicles using Hawthorne through the night.  

See you in 2019, Hawthorne Lane bridge.  

[UPNoDa]

On 6/25/2017 at 4:19 PM, KJHburg said:

This is interesting. Look at the cost of a trip on the streetcar vs a bus. 

"The previous leadership at CATS had said the streetcar would be cheaper to operate than a bus, but that hasn’t proven to be true, at least so far. In its last full year, the Gold Rush cost about $1.70 per trip for a journey that could be as long as four miles. The Gold Line streetcar has cost nearly $3.70 per trip on a journey that’s 1.5 miles – at the most."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article157862614.html#storylink=cpy

But doesn't this take into consideration that the Gold line has no fare currently? Those numbers could change with the new Siemens cars once the city starts adding fares no?

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, UPNoDa said:

But doesn't this take into consideration that the Gold line has no fare currently? Those numbers could change with the new Siemens cars once the city starts adding fares no?

Not sure if it does or not. I thought the article said it was based on cost and number of passengers not any revenue collected. 

[archiham04]

5 hours ago, pathb said:

Photo of the bridge closure from this morning at Hawthorne Lane.  As a resident who lives within a stones through of the bridge, I do wish they'd maintained ped and bike access until the last possible moment/demolition, but I did enjoy the most quiet several hours since moving in to our house - almost no traffic and no emergency vehicles using Hawthorne through the night.  

See you in 2019, Hawthorne Lane bridge.  

Welcome to UP pathb!

[kermit]

Operations reliability for the past two weeks based on their own twitter feed. There were five significant disruptions in 15 days -- so there were significant issues on 33% of these days. You can't call it transit if its not providing reliable service.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by kermit

[elrodvt]

Hopefully the new cars fix this. It would be nice to know they promise that though.

[kermit]

File under: some mixed traffic streetcars work well

Voters just approved (by a large margin) an expansion of the special tax district that would finance the local portion of the costs for the The Kansas City streetcar (the KC streetcar is free to riders thanks to subsidy from nearby property owners). The election was only for property owners in the area immediately adjacent to the streetcar since property assessments are the means of generating local revenue for the expansion. 

Lots of other things must happen before the extension gets built but it is noteworthy that the group that benefits most from the project has agreed to tax themselves for it.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/kc-streetcar/article165494947.html

Edited August 7, 2017 by kermit

[Scribe]

Curious if this has been proposed here...

Idea: From College St to Poplar St, do not allow general/commercial through traffic. (down Trade St - though I think that is obvious)

Take away the second lane, expand the sidewalk or add bike lanes. Commercial/general traffic would still be allowed to go to hotels, etc. There are versions of this - http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Turns-onto-Market-Street-by-private-cars-barred-6434413.php

Thoughts?

Edited August 8, 2017 by Scribe
clarify

[Matthew.Brendan]

Yes please ^^^ Anything to reduce the amount of cars and trucks Uptown. 

[southslider]

Streetcar is in the second lane between Church and College. 

[Scribe]

22 minutes ago, southslider said:

Streetcar is in the second lane between Church and College. 

Second as in inner? Or second as in outer lane?  If it is inner lane - like by Spectrum center - it's a good thing, that means you can expand the sidewalks on both sides by a full lane. And just leave pockets for loading/unloading etc.

[southslider]

Outer lane

[tusculan]

On 8/8/2017 at 5:58 PM, Scribe said:

Curious if this has been proposed here...

Idea: From College St to Poplar St, do not allow general/commercial through traffic. (down Trade St - though I think that is obvious)

Take away the second lane, expand the sidewalk or add bike lanes. Commercial/general traffic would still be allowed to go to hotels, etc. There are versions of this - http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Turns-onto-Market-Street-by-private-cars-barred-6434413.php

Thoughts?

Bordeaux has done this with some of their streets. The streetcars run either in the grassy median, or occasionally as the inner lane, but for the heart of downtown it runs in the middle of a large pedestrian plaza (with limited hours for local vehicle traffic) They have also re-purposed 2 cross streets as pedestrian or bike only (again with exceptions for early morning local freight etc), thus giving a whole transit mall effect. This is also what is being done in downtown Minneapolis right now - a plaza with restaurants flanking the sides opening to a pedestrian mall with the streetcar lanes in the center. It is supposed to be up and running by October, and I am excited to see how well it works.

Inasmuch as I think streetcars to be truly successful should maximize the amount of time they have independent ROW (like Minneapolis), I am all for the pedestrian mall with streetcars on it. 

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, southslider said:

Outer lane

Shame, is there a link to a detailed alignment for the streetcar?

[Scribe]

@tusculan Yeah, I've seen it implemented in several places, with different approaches. Jerusalem light rail had sections of different styles (grassy, brick, blocked off with guardrail, etc) as if they were experimenting with the concept.

I think it could work for Charlotte to try to make the 2-3 blocks, from Spectrum up to Poplar, more people centric.