Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[CLT2014]

^
It is worth noting that KC Streetcar is free to ride. If a team of four co-workers wanted to ride the KC Streetcar a couple of stops to eat lunch in a different part of downtown KC, they can do so for free.

Due to CATS planning to charge a full fare on our streetcar, it is going to make jumping on the Gold Line to go to Viva Chicken a $4.40 round-trip lunch outing just for transit (assuming somebody doesn't have a monthly pass). Even if they lower the fee, having to spend time buying a ticket will discourage many riders from using the streetcar to go just a couple blocks quicker than walking. IMO, the fare is going to make our streetcar largely utilized by monthly pass holders and commuters into Uptown and limit its use for facilitating a slightly faster movement within the center city area over walking. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by CLT2014

[Sigma]

^ I ate at BRGR (in the first photo) two weeks ago.

[videtur quam contuor]

Nearly the entire existing route is institutional and government, both sides of the street. No chance for reinvestment options. The extension west might change that.

[Matthew.Brendan]

Well if enforcement on the streetcar is anything like Lynx, then fares won't be a concern 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Matthew.Brendan

[SgtCampsalot]

All fares should be free 

[dubone]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:55 PM, SgtCampsalot said:

All fares should be free 

Or at least only set to the marginal cost, with the fixed costs covered by subsidies.      Obviously on the flipside is when the capacity cannot serve the demand, but in principle, I agree with the free fares.   The alternative is only requiring fares during peak times, when you capture revenue from probably more than half the riders, and the rest of the time you are encouraging use when it is no where near full.

In this case, it replaces the old Gold Rush trolley the really helped improve circulation.  Free rides means also last minute riders can hop on.    That should at least be possible outside of rush hour 

[Desert Power]

Can't even run this during All Star Weekend.  What a joke.

[Scribe]

The replica trolleys were never meant to run as a "mass transit" trolley - so them shutting it down is wise.

The real problem is the Blue Line. They really messed up with the crappy schedule they've set for the All Star weekend.

[15895]

16 minutes ago, Desert Power said:

Can't even run this during All Star Weekend.  What a joke.

Atlanta’s streetcar shutdown during the Super Bowl 

[DCtransplant]

From yesterday by the Bojangles. Good progress.

[Hushpuppy321]

Thanks for the photo update.  Gonna be very cool seeing LRT Vehicles running on these tracks in just 18 months.

[Nathan2]

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/157957/charlotte-streetcar-line/

The article and the comments definitely make it seem as most people are against the project? CATS doesn't seem to help itself out with its poor communication.

 

[CLT2014]

22 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/157957/charlotte-streetcar-line/

The article and the comments definitely make it seem as most people are against the project? CATS doesn't seem to help itself out with its poor communication.

Anecdotally, if 60% of Agenda readers (note this survey isn't statistically significant, etc..) don't think the Street Car is a good idea.... just imagine how bad support is among other cohorts in the city. Agenda readers should be a sweet spot for transit support as they are more likely to live in the neighborhoods around Uptown. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by CLT2014

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/157957/charlotte-streetcar-line/

The article and the comments definitely make it seem as most people are against the project? CATS doesn't seem to help itself out with its poor communication.

 

I'm actually super mad about this article. I think leaving out the WHY the streetcar has failed as a economic tool is damaging. The fact that there is no mention of the primary land owners along the route being glacially moving institutions is a big omission.  You better believe that I have a retort to this piece in the works.

[CLT704]

^It was a very biased article IMO, heavily weighted against the streetcar, being deliberately inflammatory (which basically sums up the "journalism" of Charlotte Agenda).

Is the streetcar perfect? Heck no, but CATS overall is crap. As for the future of the streetcar, I would wholeheartedly support phase 3 if it had dedicated lanes. I do think the existing tracks should have signal priority as a basic and dedicated lanes where possible, like the section between the CTC and Alexander St.

Edited February 19, 2019 by CLT704
Grammar and phrasing

[CLTranspo]

This article irked me too. I think the agenda needs to stick to buzzfeed-esque listicle articles. They don’t have expertise in politics, policy, or planning and instead grossly generalize projects like this, which does a disservice to Charlotte for future transit expansion. 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, CLTranspo said:

This article irked me too. I think the agenda needs to stick to buzzfeed-esque listicle articles. They don’t have expertise in politics, policy, or planning and instead grossly generalize projects like this, which does a disservice to Charlotte for future transit expansion. 

I mean... I'm going to write a dissenting opinion and would LOVE your input for the article. 

[CLTranspo]

10 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I mean... I'm going to write a dissenting opinion and would LOVE your input for the article. 

Sure! Would be happy to share my perspective on the streetcar

[Norm2]

Is the new development ordinance for transit stations going to affect Novant and CPCC in regards to new buildings and parking decks, or are they exempt due to the institutions that they are? These two organizations are the biggest things that is causing the streetcar to fail.

[Scribe]

I think the GoldLine is a waste of money. The money would have been better (and should have been) spent on light rail expansion (new lines, capacity expansion on old Blue Line -- the now stalled platform expansion for all original stations, and more running stock for Blue Line to get to 5 minute headways).

You are free to quote my dissenting opinion to your dissenting opinion.

[kermit]

IMO Phase 2 of the Gold Line is flawed only because it is forced to share space with cars. Most of those flaws would be fixed if we gave it dedicated lanes and signal priority -- two things that have a low financial cost but high political cost. (EDIT: assuming that Phase 2 operates with sub 10 minute frequencies)

Even without those cheap improvements I think we are better off with the Gold Line than without it.

Can any of the dissenters suggest a better (realistic) way to route an East-West rail line? I have looked and I just don't see any alternatives (since tunneling is a non-starter). To have a functional rail transit system we have gotta have an east-west route and connect our transit lines, intercity rail station and a university and neighborhoods to the west -- our four mile center city connector should only cost the city $87 million ($22 million a mile), if we develop the sack to run it properly (in dedicated lanes) then that is a huge bargain. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by kermit

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

23 minutes ago, kermit said:

IMO the Gold Line is flawed because it is forced to share space with cars. Most of those flaws would be fixed if we gave it dedicated lanes and signal priority -- two things that have a low financial cost but high political cost.

Does trade have to be 4 lanes?  Uptown for the Gold line will be very popular stops along, JWU, Gateway station, Trade/Tryon, and arena/CTC.  If the Gold line had dedicated lanes up and down trade at least from say CTC to Gateway station or JWU, that would be ideal for a commuter and would be able to have some sort of ETA once the Gold line reaches Uptown.  Transfers from the Blue could easily get to Gateway station and vice versa in x amount of minutes "guaranteed" because of the dedicated lanes (no traffic & signal priority).  Just like the bus lanes in the middle of 74, the Gold line would eventually merge back into normal traffic at both ends.  It's too late now lol, but just a thought. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[davidclt]

1 hour ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I mean... I'm going to write a dissenting opinion and would LOVE your input for the article. 

There are so many things wrong with that opinion piece. I'm not sure they have enough column inches to adequately reply. While I'm not a fan of the Gomaco reproduction cars (and they're manifestly better than the execrable rubber wheeled trolley-looking buses that ran the Gold Rush loops). I'm not a fan of faux nostalgia and looking forward to the Siemens Avanto (S70) cars running on the line. Also hoping for signal preemption and all the other goodness a true shared, at-grade transit line should have (Sprinter should have that too).

[EllAyyDub]

A street car is great for preserving ROW for future heavier rail uses.  This may have been the intent but is no longer the case (Silver Line following zero of the current Gold Line routing AFAIK).  

Street car can be great from an economic development point of view (see: KC, Portland, etc.).  This has not been the case with ours (for a number of reasons), and now the $$ is following the light rail corridor.

Our street car could (/would/will) be great at moving people from Gateway, to Center City/ Blue Line, to Elizabeth/Hospitaland, if it had ROW/signal prioritization as others have said (& keeps[?] the free fare).  Additional development along the line would go hand-in-hand with increased ridership.

There may be other uses, but these are the big three in my mind.  The Gold Line does a middling job at these, but it's relatively cheap and still has a promising future.  I support the finishing of the second phase, but currently would not support the extension of the third phase (unless we can get similar economic splits as the first phase).

[HighRiseHillbilly]

9 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I'm actually super mad about this article. I think leaving out the WHY the streetcar has failed as a economic tool is damaging. The fact that there is no mention of the primary land owners along the route being glacially moving institutions is a big omission.  You better believe that I have a retort to this piece in the works.

Get em, Clay.