Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[lit]

So... did they approve the plan? Are we a GO for phase3?

[kermit]

3 minutes ago, lit said:

So... did they approve the plan? Are we a GO for phase3?

The budget passed, I believe (but am not certain) that the Phase 3 money stayed in the budget.

To be clear, it is NOT money for construction. It is money for design and preliminary engineering for Phase 3 only. Basically just enough analysis to attach a cost  estimate to the project.

I think the basic idea is to get a good enough cost estimate that Phase 3 could potentially  be folded into Big Bang money. This would represent a change over the current operating model where the city (not CATS) has been paying all capital and operations cost for the Gold Line (both phase 1 and 2).

[Scribe]

3 minutes ago, kermit said:

The budget passed, I believe (but am not certain) that the Phase 3 money stayed in the budget.

Would be a damn shame if it stayed in the budget. We have clear and many an example of CATS barely being able to keep up with what they have going on. Now they are into Silver Line, Gold Line, BLE part 2...

I think that money would be better spent focusing on getting the Blue Line running on the originally promised schedule, getting the Blue Line platforms all ready for 3-car service or at least focus on engineering the Silver Line with dedicated right of way.

[kermit]

5 minutes ago, Scribe said:

Would be a damn shame if it stayed in the budget. We have clear and many an example of CATS barely being able to keep up with what they have going on. Now they are into Silver Line, Gold Line, BLE part 2...

I think that money would be better spent focusing on getting the Blue Line running on the originally promised schedule, getting the Blue Line platforms all ready for 3-car service or at least focus on engineering the Silver Line with dedicated right of way.

City money is not the equivalent of CATS money. (Phase 3 design comes out of the city’s pocket)

(but yea, I agree with your general sentiment. I would think that any organization which is about to ask its constituents for truckloads of new money would want to be doing its best to appear to be competent — CATS sure AF is not doing that)

[Scribe]

Just now, kermit said:

City money is not the equivalent of CATS money. (Phase 3 design comes out of the city’s pocket)

I really do not care where the money is coming from (unless it is federal grants that we would otherwise miss out on) CATS needs to prove they are a reliable partner for the city and actually provide reliable transit on their existing transit coverage.

3 minutes ago, kermit said:

CATS sure AF is not doing that

We definitely agree on one thing

[kermit]

1 minute ago, Scribe said:

I really do not care where the money is coming from (unless it is federal grants that we would otherwise miss out on) CATS needs to prove they are a reliable partner for the city and actually provide reliable transit on their existing transit coverage.

Yes they do.

but phase 3 design money is not being pulled from the CATS capital or operating budgets so it would be inappropriate to call out phase 3 design money as an opportunity cost obstacle to  CATS getting its crap together.

[Scribe]

12 minutes ago, kermit said:

it would be inappropriate to call out phase 3 design money as an opportunity cost obstacle to  CATS

It is an opportunity cost for the city of Charlotte then. That's $250 million the city could be using to (try) fix at least 99 other things that are in terrible need of money before the Gold Line.

Also, just because CATS is not spending their own money does not mean it would not tie up personnel for the Gold Line project.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Scribe

[archiham04]

So I hear on this forum about the bad situation on the Blue line, but not much in the paper.  Is "the public" outraged over CATS or just us?

[Scribe]

2 minutes ago, archiham04 said:

So I hear on this forum about the bad situation on the Blue line, but not much in the paper.  Is "the public" outraged over CATS or just us?

My first 3 or 4 posts on this forum in August 2017 were about how Charlotte Observer buries the critical coverage of CATS (especially surrounding big projects)

Here is post # 3 for reference...

 

[kermit]

24 minutes ago, archiham04 said:

So I hear on this forum about the bad situation on the Blue line, but not much in the paper.  Is "the public" outraged over CATS or just us?

I have read nothing about it. Honestly the streetcar reliability problems would have been on the front page of the Observer back when they were a real paper (or at least less distracted by toll lanes). The local press was super-critical of CATS back in 2007 when the South Line was over budget and there was a transit tax repeal referendum but transit issues appear to have fallen off their radar following the BLE delay, cracked ties, etc.

I have heard quite a few complaints from regular Blue Line riders (and quite a few former riders) about reliability, slowness and lack of frequency but none of that appears to have caught anyone's ear.

Edited June 11, 2019 by kermit

[tozmervo]

I don't feel like we give Gateway enough love as a great urban experience. It does everything we ask for: street level businesses and activity, mixed use office and residential, walkable street grid, and great public spaces. 

[CLT>]

 

 

 

2

On 6/12/2019 at 10:21 AM, tozmervo said:

I don't feel like we give Gateway enough love as a great urban experience. It does everything we ask for: street level businesses and activity, mixed use office and residential, walkable street grid, and great public spaces. 

That's what happens when you have a private sector partner (NationsBank) fully invested in good, high-quality placemaking and design. *sigh*

[archiham04]

On 6/11/2019 at 11:24 AM, Scribe said:

My first 3 or 4 posts on this forum in August 2017 were about how Charlotte Observer buries the critical coverage of CATS (especially surrounding big projects)

Here is post # 3 for reference...

 

I have (some) tolerance for Construction cost overruns.  Things happen, conditions change, if it opens and its constructed correctly I can forgive.  Trains running on time is a basic competency issue for me.  For heavens sake, listen to the mayor speak and the first thing out of her mouth is ... "we basically make sure the city is running correctly:  Trash is picked up and trains run on time."  Well sh!t, you are failing number 2 on your list lady.

[SpiritOf76]

The tracks  seem way lower than the existing road.  I never realized Hawthorne was so wide 

[sakami]

Was anyone able to attend the CATS meeting about the streetcar last week? I’m hearing 7th St will close for 28 days but I’m not sure when.  I posted on the City Lynx FB page asking for updates but have heard nothing. 

[southslider]

1 hour ago, sakami said:

 I posted on the City Lynx FB page asking for updates but have heard nothing. 

Maybe also post on CATS Twitter account, so you can tag Mayor Lyles and CEO Lewis, for the same lack of response.

[davidclt]

On 6/19/2019 at 9:01 AM, southslider said:

Maybe also post on CATS Twitter account, so you can tag Mayor Lyles and CEO Lewis, for the same lack of response.

Why, so they can ignore us there too? I'm realizing that in addition to CATS' problems running a railroad (and transit system in general), their overall communication and accountability are nonexistent.

[SpiritOf76]

On 6/19/2019 at 7:50 AM, sakami said:

Was anyone able to attend the CATS meeting about the streetcar last week? I’m hearing 7th St will close for 28 days but I’m not sure when.  I posted on the City Lynx FB page asking for updates but have heard nothing. 

I was at Hawthorne Pizza bar last week and the bartender told me they were closing the intersection "soon" to lay track. Not sure exactly what timeline "soon" represented but they were aware of it happening. I guess one of the businesses across the street from pizza had to cut operating hours.

[SpiritOf76]

Saw this posted on another forum :

 

“Street Closure Notice: East 7th Street and Hawthorne Street Intersection Closure dates: July 15, 2019 to August 12, 2019 East 7th Street and Hawthorne Street Intersection between Louise Avenue and Lamar Avenue will close on Monday, July 15, 2019 at 9 a.m. and will re-open on Monday, August 12, 2019 at 6 a.m. Motorist should utilize Charlottetowne Avenue, East 4th Street, and North Caswell Road as the detour. This closure is necessary for tracks installation work as part of the CityLYNX Gold Line Phase 2 construction. This road will be closed to all through traffic. CATS will be affected. For additional information about this closure, contact Chris Jiles, City Engineering, at [email protected] or 704-336-3605 or Devendra Patel, CDOT, at [email protected] or 704-432-5243. For information about the CityLYNX Gold Line Phase 2 project please email [email protected] or contact Juliann Sheldon at [email protected] or 980-250-9269.”

[DCtransplant]

Updates from the westside. First two are of the second set of tracks running to and away from uptown. Third shows that the first set of tracks is nearly complete to five points. Continue to see visible progress!

[15895]

Woah! That goes far out. 

 

Please let this thing be fast and not slow as dirt 

[j-man]

I didn’t realize it went that far. I guess I just avoid that side of town and ignore the articles on the distance lol. I bet this will bring some really nice developments along the way. Anyone know when the construction will wrap up? 

[nakers2]

On 7/1/2019 at 2:52 PM, SpiritOf76 said:

Saw this posted on another forum :

 

“Street Closure Notice: East 7th Street and Hawthorne Street Intersection Closure dates: July 15, 2019 to August 12, 2019 East 7th Street and Hawthorne Street Intersection between Louise Avenue and Lamar Avenue will close on Monday, July 15, 2019 at 9 a.m. and will re-open on Monday, August 12, 2019 at 6 a.m. Motorist should utilize Charlottetowne Avenue, East 4th Street, and North Caswell Road as the detour. This closure is necessary for tracks installation work as part of the CityLYNX Gold Line Phase 2 construction. This road will be closed to all through traffic. CATS will be affected. For additional information about this closure, contact Chris Jiles, City Engineering, at [email protected] or 704-336-3605 or Devendra Patel, CDOT, at [email protected] or 704-432-5243. For information about the CityLYNX Gold Line Phase 2 project please email [email protected] or contact Juliann Sheldon at [email protected] or 980-250-9269.”

Really goes to show how disruptive the construction of Independence was back in the day. I got confused when it mentioned Louise and Lamar because these two roads are also on the Plaza Midwood side of the Hawthorne lane bridge (or lack thereof) 

[nakers2]

Does anyone know where this will end exactly on the Hawthorne side? I live in Overton Row (corner of Central and Hawthorne, and I'm curious if it will end before the light, or if there will be a median station on central, and that will be the terminus. Also, I'm curious how phase 3 will traverse the tracks. I know there's ways to allow track to cross track, but that crossing is pretty wonky, it's gonna need some adjustments.

[kermit]

13 minutes ago, nakers2 said:

Does anyone know where this will end exactly on the Hawthorne side? I live in Overton Row (corner of Central and Hawthorne, and I'm curious if it will end before the light, or if there will be a median station on central, and that will be the terminus. Also, I'm curious how phase 3 will traverse the tracks. I know there's ways to allow track to cross track, but that crossing is pretty wonky, it's gonna need some adjustments.

Phase 2 ends between Sunnyside and Central so before the light. 

Light rail / streetcar vehicles are not allowed to cross ‘real’ rail tracks at grade for any reason. The phase 3 plan remains (afaik) to cross Central, run down Hawthorne and go under CSX and then turn right (east) through the Barnhardt Manufacturing land. I think it returns to Central using Clement. This is kinda wonky but I don’t believe that thinking has changed on this since the initial sketch design.