Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[dubone]

Ours ought to be free.  It replaces the Gold Rush which was free and was the most ridden line in the system.     It is a circulator to get cars to stop and park soon and hop on.   Plus, when walking across town, hop on hop off can be very spontaneous based on whether it happens to be there.   But not if it costs $2 to go a mile.   Plus, now they need to compete with scooters and bike share. 

I wish they'd just open all transit to fare free, with only charge being parking.   The cost of 1 lane of new freeway delayed a few years would cover that easily.

 

[pathb]

At this point I'd be ready to jump off a bridge (if one was available)

[Popsickle]

1 hour ago, pathb said:

At this point I'd be ready to jump off a bridge (if one was available)

CATs really needs to get its ish together with these contractors. One failure after another.  If the “Big Bang” ever comes up on the ballot few people will vote to approve with all the mismanagement by CATs. 

[KJHburg]

Correct unless some changes are made at CATS leadership any attempt to spend even more money will fail with voters miserably. 

[Desert Power]

Agreed. This continual failure on all of its projects has to result in new leadership at some point.

[tozmervo]

Unfortunately their only recourse is probably to fire the contractor, which would probably just cost more time and money. 

[elrodvt]

Isn't there a state law which requires accepting lowest bid even though you think they're incompetent? Puts them in a tough spot if true. I guess they need a lot closer monitoring but it's a hard call to pull the plug cause then they declare chap11 or something and all the $ are gone.

Still I would get new blood even without this issue since they also have unacceptable outages & delays on the blue line. I think the city management stinks of complacency and  good old Charlotte ”value engineering” at all levels.

[Desert Power]

17 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

Isn't there a state law which requires accepting lowest bid even though you think they're incompetent? Puts them in a tough spot if true. I guess they need a lot closer monitoring but it's a hard call to pull the plug cause then they declare chap11 or something and all the $ are gone.

Still I would get new blood even without this issue since they also have unacceptable outages & delays on the blue line. I think the city management stinks of complacency and  good old Charlotte ”value engineering” at all levels.

I think you are correct on both of these accounts.  Even with serious constraints like the low-bid, these delays should not be acceptable. Large bureaucratic projects are never easy, but that doesn't mean that you constantly over-promise and under-delivery. I do this all day.

Even as a very liberal person, I wonder if having such a one-sided city governance prevents us from holding people accountable for this stuff.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Desert Power

[tozmervo]

Trade street station pads

[Matthew.Brendan]

If the bridge concrete does not meet spec, what is the recourse here? Seems a bit late in the game to discover this?

[elrodvt]

1 hour ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

If the bridge concrete does not meet spec, what is the recourse here? Seems a bit late in the game to discover this?

Duct tape.

[DCtransplant]

I77 underpass enhancements along the street car tracks with a seating area. A bit odd but much better than before. Best part of this is they have connected the sidewalk into the Greenway to Frazier park. Big win in accessibility for Seversville residents.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Hushpuppy321]

On 8/8/2020 at 12:42 PM, Matthew.Brendan said:

If the bridge concrete does not meet spec, what is the recourse here? Seems a bit late in the game to discover this?

Yes indeed - I hope this was just a failure of the Concrete Samples to break at strength and not the wrong/weaker Concrete Mixture being used during the Deck Pour (which would be a huge problem and one that should’ve been caught before concrete was placed).  Typically what is done (speaking to NCDOT projects) is that the in-place Concrete Deck would be tested using Non Destructive & Destructive testing methods to ascertain what the exact In Place Strength is.  Then, Depending on how much lower than design strength the Concrete Deck is, there are several solutions available without having to remove and replace.
 

 The most typical remediation is a payment reduction to the contractor and extension of the Bridge Warranty period but leaving everything already built in place.  Pretty much an administrative ‘fix’.  Less typical is removing several inches of the wearing surface and replacing with a high strength Latex Modified Concrete.  Much less typical is high strength Steel Stiffeners being added to Critical points along the Steel Girder Web to further reduce load deflection thereby giving the Concrete Deck additional support to resist bending moment.  
 

These last two options are rare and very expensive but if warranted would be at the Contractors expense.  I’m almost certain neither of those will happen since CATS says the bridge will be open in December.   If they had to remediate the structure like in the above it wouldn’t be done by December.

[pathb]

This update from the City seems to indicate it's just the elevation of the concrete that was incorrect where the tracks are to be placed, not the mix/strength of the concrete.  From what I've read it sounds like it won't require a full demo of the track bed within the bridge deck, hopefully that is the case.  Honestly I'm pretty excited about the bridge potentially opening to ped/bike this month.  The volume of automobile traffic on Hawthorne is significantly reduced without the bridge in place, and it is a much quieter and safer street because of it.  Maybe we could petition to make this Charlotte's version of Tilikum Crossing in Portland - bike, ped, transit, and emergency vehicles only?

Edited August 10, 2020 by pathb
Updated link

[NYtoCLT]

On 8/8/2020 at 8:41 PM, DCtransplant said:

I77 underpass enhancements along the street car tracks with a seating area. A bit odd but much better than before. Best part of this is they have connected the sidewalk into the Greenway to Frazier park. Big win in accessibility for Seversville residents.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

I assume since the existing line already went under 277 by the Government Center, no pedestrian improvements are being planned there?  That is my typical walking route to work (when I decide to be the only pedestrian commuter in CLT).  The underpass does really create a mental barrier that separates the walk in a negative way.  Spending some amount on pedestrian improvements like the above could be huge especially since there is usually decent foot traffic around there with CPCC.

[southslider]

3 hours ago, NYtoCLT said:

I assume since the existing line already went under 277 by the Government Center, no pedestrian improvements are being planned there?  That is my typical walking route to work (when I decide to be the only pedestrian commuter in CLT).  The underpass does really create a mental barrier that separates the walk in a negative way.  Spending some amount on pedestrian improvements like the above could be huge especially since there is usually decent foot traffic around there with CPCC.

Yep, already done under 277. And the W Trade ped enhancements under 77 is a City bond project funded separately from Streetcar

[Hushpuppy321]

10 hours ago, pathb said:

This update from the City seems to indicate it's just the elevation of the concrete that was incorrect where the tracks are to be placed, not the mix/strength of the concrete.  From what I've read it sounds like it won't require a full demo of the track bed within the bridge deck, hopefully that is the case.  Honestly I'm pretty excited about the bridge potentially opening to ped/bike this month.  The volume of automobile traffic on Hawthorne is significantly reduced without the bridge in place, and it is a much quieter and safer street because of it.  Maybe we could petition to make this Charlotte's version of Tilikum Crossing in Portland - bike, ped, transit, and emergency vehicles only?

whew!! Elevation problem only - that can be corrected...

[videtur quam contuor]

Something similar happened on the original Blue line. At the Stonewall station the rail line was over the hotel parking structure and somehow the concrete for the area underlying the rails was either too high or too low, I cannot recall which. This meant the cars would not have a seamless transition from the boarding area when rails were laid. There was a delay and the solution applied. Could have been a survey error.

[Hushpuppy321]

Is anyone here alright with the idea of a shortened GoldLine overall to save money?  Initial plan was for a 10 mile buildout but I think if it ended at 7 or 8 miles that’d be alright with me.  I feel that phase III must include a Terminus at Eastland now that major development Is coming there.  Single prioritization along the route should happen to make it more reliable/faster transit.

[CLT704]

1 hour ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Is anyone here alright with the idea of a shortened GoldLine overall to save money?  Initial plan was for a 10 mile buildout but I think if it ended at 7 or 8 miles that’d be alright with me.  I feel that phase III must include a Terminus at Eastland now that major development Is coming there.  Single prioritization along the route should happen to make it more reliable/faster transit.

I think there should be the full 10 mile buildout but separate the line into two. Have each line terminate at Gateway or the CTC.

Signal priority and dedicated lanes where possible. Separate lanes at the end of the lines would be good, imagine trying to go along Central in traffic. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by CLT704

[southslider]

13 hours ago, CLT704 said:

I think there should be the full 10 mile buildout but separate the line into two. Have each line terminate at Gateway or the CTC.

Signal priority and dedicated lanes where possible. Separate lanes at the end of the lines would be good, imagine trying to go along Central in traffic. 

Continuing past CTC will be the only plus Streetcar has over Bus. Separate its tracks from traffic and that'd be another plus. But Central is not the street to lose lanes.  Besides, Central is so close to Silver Line, I don't see fulfilling that tired vision as a priority any longer.

I say continue up Hawthorne to Parkwood/Plaza to Matheson back over to Blue Line.  All streets with room to carve out exclusive tracks. And more importantly, all areas hot for more infill. 

[CLT704]

4 hours ago, southslider said:

Continuing past CTC will be the only plus Streetcar has over Bus. Separate its tracks from traffic and that'd be another plus. But Central is not the street to lose lanes.  Besides, Central is so close to Silver Line, I don't see fulfilling that tired vision as a priority any longer.

I say continue up Hawthorne to Parkwood/Plaza to Matheson back over to Blue Line.  All streets with room to carve out exclusive tracks. And more importantly, all areas hot for more infill. 

That's actually a great idea! Maybe even go up to 36th and connect Plaza to Noda. 

[Third Strike]

On 8/15/2020 at 3:12 PM, Hushpuppy321 said:

Is anyone here alright with the idea of a shortened GoldLine overall to save money?  Initial plan was for a 10 mile buildout but I think if it ended at 7 or 8 miles that’d be alright with me.  I feel that phase III must include a Terminus at Eastland now that major development Is coming there.  Single prioritization along the route should happen to make it more reliable/faster transit.

I think the best solution for Eastland, and East Charlotte, is creating a spur off the Silver Line onto Albemarle, with a stop near the Central/Albemarle intersection. I do think the northern end should stay, but with its own ROW. They could even extend it further north to the Northlake area. 

[tozmervo]

6 hours ago, Third Strike said:

I think the best solution for Eastland, and East Charlotte, is creating a spur off the Silver Line onto Albemarle, with a stop near the Central/Albemarle intersection. I do think the northern end should stay, but with its own ROW. They could even extend it further north to the Northlake area. 

My guess is that this forum has zero to minimal representation from west or northwest Charlotte, and thus there is rarely discussion about development or potential development up the Beatties Ford corridor.  Some of those neighborhoods have as rich a history as Dilworth or Midwood, they're just left out of the conversation with little representation in forums like this one, the Agenda, ULI, etc. From a historical impact perspective, I think the northern end of the Gold Line could be a much bigger deal than the Central corridor, bringing a much higher quality level of transit into neighborhoods that have spent decades "left out and left behind." 

[Desert Power]

2 hours ago, tozmervo said:

My guess is that this forum has zero to minimal representation from west or northwest Charlotte, and thus there is rarely discussion about development or potential development up the Beatties Ford corridor.  Some of those neighborhoods have as rich a history as Dilworth or Midwood, they're just left out of the conversation with little representation in forums like this one, the Agenda, ULI, etc. From a historical impact perspective, I think the northern end of the Gold Line could be a much bigger deal than the Central corridor, bringing a much higher quality level of transit into neighborhoods that have spent decades "left out and left behind." 

Unfortunately, I'd bet most of that development takes the form of gentrification rather than the development we typically see along transit.  Just not as much big parcels to be repurposed ala Brevard St or Sugar Creek.