Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[southslider]

^July was City Council's decision to accept the grant. The 18-month clock doesn't start ticking until the Feds officially give notice to proceed. And I think that 18-month deadline may just be to start construction, not a deadline to have the project fully built and open for service.

Edited October 20, 2010 by southslider

[Spartan]

^ That is my understanding as well.

[kermit]

I am encouraged that Charlotte manages to be a good city to showcase new transit technology.

From the non copyrighted press release:

KINKISHARYO International, L.L.C. announced today that the prototype of its LFX-300, a 100 percent low-floor, dual-powered 'hybrid' streetcar specifically designed for North America, will arrive in the U.S. in mid-December. Following a series of tests, the LFX-300 will be unveiled to the public and industry in Charlotte, North Carolina in January, 2011.

If we had not committed to the legacy trolleys on the streetcar line I would think we could see a partial cantenary streetcar line.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/lfx-300-the-latest-streetcar-innovation-from-kinkisharyo-international-arriving-in-us-111032219.html

[Sabaidee]

I hate that we are stuck with the legacy trolleys for our starter streetcar line and with the MTC puttiing the streetcar line on definite hold, we probably won't see this model.

[orulz]

They've really only committed to the legacy vehicles for the first phase of the streetcar that is already funded (CTC to Presbyterian hospital.) Makes sense because they already HAVE the vehicles. For future phases they're definitely going to use modern streetcars. There's not really anywhere in that segment where wire-free operation would be particularly important.

Hybrid streetcars provide benefits even when running under wire. They use less power because they have regenerative braking. However, wireless trains will definitely be important in one, maybe two places. First, I bet the city doesn't want wires spanning Tryon street. That might get in the way of parades. Second, Hawthorne is a pretty low bridge.

Something especially nice about these Kinki Sharyo cars is that they have 100% low floors. The Skoda cars that you see in Portland only have 50% low floors (the middle section is low; the front and back are not.)

[Sabaidee]

I get that, but what I'm saying is since the streetcar expansion is put on hold and the MTC and CATS is focusing only on the BLE and North Corridor within the 2030 plan. We will not likely see any new streetcar models besides the legacy one for awhile.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Shawn&Zae

[southslider]

^Streetcar expansion is only on hold by MTC when it comes to using the County half-cent sales tax. The starter project is funded independent of the County sales tax, for design (City), construction (Federal and City), and operations (City). If an extension to Gateway were to be funded outside the County sales tax, say an Uptown tax and/or another Federal grant, then I can't see how MTC could or would nix it, especially if it would save or replace CATS operating the Gold Rush.

[tozmervo]

I think the CATS move to "nix" the streetcar from the 2030 plan just gives them breathing room and the opportunity to focus on the BLE and Red Line. It's also a clear signal to the City that "you want it, you build it." I think there's actually a very good chance that we'll see more build out sooner than later - there's still strong city support, and the responsibility for getting it built is much more clear cut now.

[dubone]

I was thinking that CATS had for a while disavowed itself of the streetcar line, and had shifted the onus for that to the city of Charlotte. Regardless, if it helps them free the budget to move forward with the BLE, then I am for it.

[New Name]

Here's the Media sheet for the Kinkisharyo LFX-300 which will be unveiled to the world in Charlotte this month. It's a great looking streetcar. Aside from the 100% low-floor, the hybrid technology would allow (theoretically if this were to be the streetcar Charlotte ended up with) stored Li-ion batteries to power the car without overhead lines for a aesthetically sensitive or prohibitive streets - namely: no overhead wiring west from the CTC/Arena Lynx bridge through The Square and maybe even as far as Gateway. That sounds good to me.

[Urbanity]

Urban Land Institute proposal for Independence discusses a streetcar that runs down Monroe. There apparently was also mention of a Central Avenue and Sharon Amity line if I understood some of the comments in Mary Newsom's blog piece on the recommendations.

Of course this is nothing more than a a third party's recommendation and may go poof in the wind, but I love the ideas.

[dubone]

While I suspect this will not end up swaying the people in charge to get off their longstanding plans. I do think this is a good idea to extend the Central streetcar by turning it on Sharon Amity and then down Monroe.

It would be nice if they could just get some long term funding in place to extend the Central Ave streetcar line a few miles every few years and go from there.

[southslider]

An incremental approach makes sense for streetcar. For example, just two more stops east of the starter project reaches both the Elizabeth and Plaza-Central areas. But a commitment should be made to build incrementally in ALL directions. West Charlotte has been very patient with the starter grant, understanding the initial route as leveraging recent invesments, but also understandably demanding the next segment must head west. Of course, just three more stops west of the starter project reaches both the Square and Gateway, but doesn't leave Uptown. I imagine that going any farther east with streetcar will be a tough political sell until streetcar finally reaches west of I-77.

I also like how adding another eastern leg down 7th/Monroe would complement the second western leg of Cedar-Morehead-Wilkinson. Note, however, that building ALL directions incrementally would also mean reaching Coliseum via Elizabeth before Eastland, as much as reaching Bryant Park via Wesley Heights before going all the way up Beatties Ford to Rosa Parks. But realisically, the inner segments of all four streetcar lines have the greatest urban redevelopment potential initially over complete build-out of the Rosa Parks-Eastland line.

[Urbanity]

Good News: Charlotte is the first stop of a tour of next generation hybrid Streetcars. They are available for a public viewing on Friday at the 9th St. Lynx /Trolley station

Bad News: Charlotte's 1.5 mile starter streetcar's opening has been pushed back a year (2015) due to delay in delivery of Federal Funding,

[kermit]

thanks for the update on the streetcar construction, can you share a link to the source? (if its online)

(I don't doubt you, I would just like to read more about it)

Perhaps the delay will allow some more cash to magically appear for needed extensions to gateway station / 5 points....

I realize more funding is a long shot but the rate at which Pat Mcrory is out on consulting gigs preaching the virtues of transit and smart growth I think the next gubernatorial election will feature much talk about transit.

Edit: \/ Thanks Urbanity!

Edited January 21, 2011 by kermit

[Urbanity]

^^^ Sorry - I thought I had: http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2011/01/streetcar-year-behind-schedule.html

[kermit]

I drove by the 9th street station to see the Kinkisharyo this morning. I was shocked by how small it was (it looked like the same width as the Siemans LRT units we have but MUCH shorter). It appeared to be the length of half of one of the currently used LRT units. Are all modern streetcars short?

[Sabaidee]

Modern streetcars are made to run along automotive traffic, thus using city street and it would have to be able to turn at a certain radius.

[kermit]

Looks like the republican jihad against any kind of rail transit will kill the Cincinnati streetcar:

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011/03/22/losing-state-support-cincinnatis-streetcar-project-in-peril/

[southslider]

^Very sad, given how Ohio's own bipartisan (non-partisan?) Transportation Board ranked the Cincy streetcar highest of all projects in generating economic development. And some economic development tends to be needed in Ohio right now. That includes Cincy, which ironically had the exact opposite population growth of streetcar-loving Portland.

[New Name]

The partisan politics in the country have really gotten me down. And it's not even that Charlotte is effected (yet?).

I don't know about you (and I don't know if you voted for Obama), but I voted for him and told all my friends to, because he made promises and prospects that would build a better society. Everything from health care, to energy, to (especially) transportation. I was very clear in understanding that his running mate's son was on the board of Amtrak, and the ticket was committed to urban issues. So, based on what I knew, I feel Obama has been the best president I can think of in my 30+ years. He has delivered on the social structures that he campaigned on.

I'm not sure if his opponents either 1) didn't bother to understand his agenda and platforms, 2) didn't think the would actually facilitate anything on that agenda so quickly while in office, 3) feel so compelled that (although they were in the minority and lost the popular vote), their arguments are so much more holy than what the majority had chosen.

I'm a little off topic, but this is about Gov. Kasich who is forgetting that his state went for Obama in '08. And until '12, there is no way to say that he is acting for the greater will of his constituents by going against their popular votes.

[caterpillar2]

The partisan politics in the country have really gotten me down. And it's not even that Charlotte is effected (yet?).

I don't know about you (and I don't know if you voted for Obama), but I voted for him and told all my friends to, because he made promises and prospects that would build a better society. Everything from health care, to energy, to (especially) transportation. I was very clear in understanding that his running mate's son was on the board of Amtrak, and the ticket was committed to urban issues. So, based on what I knew, I feel Obama has been the best president I can think of in my 30+ years. He has delivered on the social structures that he campaigned on.

I'm not sure if his opponents either 1) didn't bother to understand his agenda and platforms, 2) didn't think the would actually facilitate anything on that agenda so quickly while in office, 3) feel so compelled that (although they were in the minority and lost the popular vote), their arguments are so much more holy than what the majority had chosen.

I'm a little off topic, but this is about Gov. Kasich who is forgetting that his state went for Obama in '08. And until '12, there is no way to say that he is acting for the greater will of his constituents by going against their popular votes.

I don't understand what "social structures" he has "delivered". I am under the impression that he has done nothing of worth. I think he is the biggest joke of a president this country has ever seen. He even makes Carter look good. I am 'not' a republican nor a 'teabagger' either. Just giving my feelings on your comment like you did. By the way, I support all monies that are tentatively to be spent for streetcar, light, and heavy rail in Mecklenburg. However, I think that half a billion to make a trip to Raleigh 13 minutes quicker is totally insane. If that is what the Republicans believe, they are absolutely right.

Edited March 23, 2011 by caterpillar2

[kermit]

However, I think that half a billion to make a trip to Raleigh 13 minutes quicker is totally insane. If that is what the Republicans believe, they are absolutely right.

You have spent a great deal of time on this site and often offered great insight on what has been posted, it seems clear that you follow many of the discussions here. Given that, do you honestly believe that the only thing North Carolina gains from this 400 million is a 13 minute reduction in trip time?

The capacity additions look pretty substantial to me (and much cheaper than the alternative of widening I-85), as does the groundwork for Gateway station and the red line.

Edited March 24, 2011 by kermit

[Otto]

So after all of your contributions here (which I have appreciated) you honestly think the only thing NC gets for the 400 million of federal money is 13 minutes cut off the CLT-RGH route?

The capacity additions from the funding which has been offered look pretty substantial to me.

NCDOT is not doing a good job of explaining what the rail money actually means for inter-city travel in NC. Yes, there will be 13 minutes cut off of the total trip...but what else?

(1) Competitive Travel Time: Improving curves will allow the trains to travel faster. Slowing down and speeding back up through curves take considerable time. By shaving the additional time off of the trip, train travel time is now competitive with car from Raleigh to Charlotte.

(2) Reliability: Three projects will result in double track from Greensboro to Kings Mountain in Cleveland County. Two additional projects will add long siding between Raleigh and Greensboro. Now, instead of passenger trains being stuck behind slower freights or having to wait in sidings for other trains to pass....the corridor will now be more fluid. Trains will actually be able to meet their scheduled times. If trains are on time, more folks will be willing to ride.

(3) Additional Service: The money is also paying for 3rd and 4th frequency for the Piedmont. This will result in two more round trips...making a total of 4 Piedmont (Charlotte to Raleigh) and 1 Carolinian (Charlotte to NYC via Raleigh)round tirps. Additional trips = more convenient arrival and departure times. Including the Crescent (NYC to New Orleans via Greensboro and Charlotte), there will be 6 round trips between Greensboro and Charlotte.

(4) Safer Travel for rail passengers: a significant number of at-grade crossings are being closed, consolidated and replaced with bridges either over or under the tracks. A number of private, unsignalized crossings are being closed. Humped crossings where there is potential for low-bed tractor-trailers to snag are being replaced.

(5) Additional freight capacity: Norfolk Southern has a plan call the Crescent Corridor which seeks to remove trucks off of the roads by allowing the railroad to offer faster transit times for freight from the southeast to the northeast. This money will give NS a double track "freeway" from the SC/NC border to north of Greensboro. This is the busiest rail corridor in the state of NC.

[New Name]

I don't understand what "social structures" he has "delivered".

This isn't a place for this conversation - but a quick response:

Past administrations have had certain priorities; be it defense spending, tax cuts, deregulation, etc. This administration made it very clear that they would work toward things that would build up structures for society: health care, energy and transportation alternatives, etc. Whether you agree that these structures have been "delivered" is the fundamental problem; just the fact that they have been addressed and processed is enough to show me that they are being delivered. My disgust disillusionment comes from the right, who's push-back is not allowing these structures to be "delivered." How is it possible to claim these things are not "delivered," when so many have done so much to stop the delivery from happening? How can anyone argue about lack of results when there has been no fair chance for systems to get into place?

Edited March 24, 2011 by The Escapists