Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[JacksonH]

On 4/28/2022 at 6:38 PM, kermit said:

I am in New Orleans for a couple of days and, perhaps it’s all the booze, but the St Charles street car reminds me a lot of a very mature Gold Line.

Both lines run through the CBD (ours is much larger), both run through some very high end, single family, residential (Elizabeth), both touch on entertainment districts (Central ave and a future(?) Tepper complex, St Charles line touches the Quarter) both have large street running sections where cars can block the streetcar, both run through some University campuses, and neither have signal prioritization. If phase 3 of the Gold Line gets built both lines would be around the same length as well.

Setting aside tourism and the historic nature of the St Charles line, I gotta say that a) lots of people use the St Charles line for commuting; b) nobody beotches about its speed (slightly slower than driving, and its a LONG ride from Carrollton to the CBD); c) parallel parking does not interfere with the line, even without lines on the pavement (sections between Lee Circle and Canal, people have apparently learned not to block the streetcar). Basically the St Charles line is revered, despite its weaknesses. Perhaps, in time (and with greatly improved frequencies) the Gold Line will will be viewed the same way.

New Orleans accepts the St Charles line, despite its flaws. Perhaps Charlotte can eventually do the same with the Gold Line?

In my one and only experience riding that streetcar in New Orleans, we got detained for quite a while because the streetcar hit an automobile.  It probably didn't help that the conductor was drunk.  But nevertheless, being a mature system didn't make it any more functional, IMO, than Charlotte's Gold Line.  And I suppose many, if not most,  of the passengers were tourists like me who didn't know any better than to ride that streetcar.  If Charlotte were a big tourist destination like New Orleans then I imagine the Gold Line could do well in spite of its many flaws.  But as it's not a tourist destination, unless CATS takes some aggressive actions and proactive measures to make it a reliable transit option, then I think it will be doomed to failure and low ridership.

Edited April 30, 2022 by JacksonH

[Blue_Devil]

On 4/30/2022 at 3:33 PM, JacksonH said:

In my one and only experience riding that streetcar in New Orleans, we got detained for quite a while because the streetcar hit an automobile.  It probably didn't help that the conductor was drunk.  But nevertheless, being a mature system didn't make it any more functional, IMO, than Charlotte's Gold Line.  And I suppose many, if not most,  of the passengers were tourists like me who didn't know any better than to ride that streetcar.  If Charlotte were a big tourist destination like New Orleans then I imagine the Gold Line could do well in spite of its many flaws.  But as it's not a tourist destination, unless CATS takes some aggressive actions and proactive measures to make it a reliable transit option, then I think it will be doomed to failure and low ridership.

I mean, Goldline ridership went up 25% month to month. Let’s continue to see where the numbers go. They are at close to 1400 daily riders. 
 

with all the events, uptown sees it’s own set of local tourists who use it. 

[JacksonH]

32 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean, Goldline ridership went up 25% month to month. Let’s continue to see where the numbers go. They are at close to 1400 daily riders. 
 

with all the events, uptown sees it’s own set of local tourists who use it. 

I guess time will tell.  The projection of riders per day was 4,100, so at 1,400 per day they have a long way to go.  If ridership continues increasing at 25% a month, the 4,100 goal can be met in five months.  But a steady 25% increase per month seems like a tall order.  I hope I'm wrong.  But if not, it just seems to me there is a LOT that could be done to make the Gold Line work better.

For example, for many blocks the tracks are in the center lanes.  It doesn't seem like it would be hard to make those dedicated lanes for the streetcar.  That would not obstruct anyone's ability to get in and out of driveways or to turn on to other streets as long as they're not turning left.

And where the tracks are in the outer lanes they could still be dedicated lanes except for turning into driveways.  Some blocks could be one-way streets for automobiles, and some blocks no automobiles allowed at all.  And of course the easiest thing that could be implemented immediately (as others have mentioned often) is strict enforcement against stopping or parking on the tracks with immediate towing and tickets.

[JeanClt]

I guess time will tell.  The projection of riders per day was 4,100, so at 1,400 per day they have a long way to go.  If ridership continues increasing at 25% a month, the 4,100 goal can be met in five months.  But a steady 25% increase per month seems like a tall order.  I hope I'm wrong.  But if not, it just seems to me there is a LOT that could be done to make the Gold Line work better.
For example, for many blocks the tracks are in the center lanes.  It doesn't seem like it would be hard to make those dedicated lanes for the streetcar.  That would not obstruct anyone's ability to get in and out of driveways or to turn on to other streets as long as they're not turning left.
And where the tracks are in the outer lanes they could still be dedicated lanes except for turning into driveways.  Some blocks could be one-way streets for automobiles, and some blocks no automobiles allowed at all.  And of course the easiest thing that could be implemented immediately (as others have mentioned often) is strict enforcement against stopping or parking on the tracks with immediate towing and tickets.

Pitch that to CDOT and they’ll lose it. Lol. I’m sure if there were a survey or input and support for these improvements that may encourage CDOT to give it a chance.

[kermit]

The Gold Line is now award winning...

[I took away the quotes around award winning since it really did win. It just strikes me as ironic. I'll give it an award as soon as I can find out when it will be where]

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by kermit

[RANYC]

If you “award” it, maybe it will come.  Maybe they (more passengers) will come too.

[kermit]

props to CATS and Siemans for getting the hybrid streetcars right. I don't believe I have heard of any problems with the wireless running (and switch back to cat wire) though Uptown. This is not straightforward for modern transit vehicles (remember when the BLE cars frequently had to 'reboot' at 7th street when crossing into the old electrical system of the South line?). Nice work guys!

Edited May 8, 2022 by kermit

[kermit]

We could have Phase 3 of the [Award Winning] Gold Line before shovels touch dirt for the Silver:

While I am not opposed to phase 3, I do wonder if the money would be more effectively spent on new route of similar length as Phase 2 running through Uptown (perhaps on the Graham/Freedom/Park axis)

Example of dedicated ROW for streetcars:

Edited May 9, 2022 by kermit

[Desert Power]

How exactly do you do that onto Central Ave?

[kermit]

10 minutes ago, Desert Power said:

How exactly do you do that onto Central Ave?

by tearing the fabric of space and time of course...

[CTiger]

20 hours ago, Desert Power said:

How exactly do you do that onto Central Ave?

I'm guessing Central would have to go down to one lane from at least Hawthorne to Landis at which point you could probably widen Central to make room.  Once you hit Eastway, you could probably get rid of the median but I doubt even that would make enough room.

Based on how these neighborhoods reacted to converting like .25 miles of Central to a bus lane, getting any support for designated streetcar ROW would go over as well as a fart in an elevator.

[kermit]

Elevated would be pretty cool, except with the folks who live there....

[Blue_Devil]

7 minutes ago, kermit said:

Elevated would be pretty cool, except with the folks who live there....

Clearly the only way is underground. 20 Billion should do the trick. 

[RANYC]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:11 PM, Blue_Devil said:

Clearly the only way is underground. 20 Billion should do the trick. 

Enter Prufrock by the Boring Company: https://www.boringcompany.com/prufrock

[lit]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:03 PM, kermit said:

Elevated would be pretty cool, except with the folks who live there....

Did someone say MONORAIL?

[TGIBridays]

12 hours ago, RANYC said:

Enter Prufrock by the Boring Company: https://www.boringcompany.com/prufrock

As long as they put a train in that hole, we good. The London Underground works with a tunnel that is 11 ft 8 in wide, so the Prufrock's 12 ft bore should work, right?

[Hushpuppy321]

On 5/9/2022 at 2:52 PM, kermit said:

We could have Phase 3 of the [Award Winning] Gold Line before shovels touch dirt for the Silver:

While I am not opposed to phase 3, I do wonder if the money would be more effectively spent on new route of similar length as Phase 2 running through Uptown (perhaps on the Graham/Freedom/Park axis)

Example of dedicated ROW for streetcars:

Nice but I wish they (City/CATS) would focus on extending the BlueLine out to Ballantyne.  That extra 5 Miles would open up a lot of development between Pineville & Ballantyne (Reimagined) plus If done right could include a Park n Ride to lure some of the Johnston Rd Traffic to Ride the Rails.

[RANYC]

Wonder if lines should be placed in areas where adjacent or proximal homeowners don’t fight density tooth and nail.  Perhaps lay lines in path of least resistance to dense development with a simultaneous rezoning to intense density happening at time rail construction begins?

Edited May 20, 2022 by RANYC

[kermit]

^ Yea, getting the BLE-E designed to the same level of the Silver Line would certainly be the appropriate way to make use of the wasted time while the politicians twiddle their thumbs on funding.

The money spent can be used as a portion of the local match for any federal grants and having the design work done would be a nice political tool to help with the tax referendum.

[kermit]

Train to nowhere…

 

[kermit]

First Gold Line operational improvement?

 

[TGIBridays]

20 minutes ago, kermit said:

First Gold Line operational improvement?

 

Curious that it's just for the Gold Line right now and not the Blue Line.

[kermit]

3 minutes ago, TGIBridays said:

Curious that it's just for the Gold Line right now and not the Blue Line.

Yea, I really don’t understand all the difficulties they have been having (for years) with this app

[JeanClt]

Curious that it's just for the Gold Line right now and not the Blue Line.

They’re newer vehicles and less of them. CATS doesn’t want to release until all Blue line vehicles are equipped. Why it’s taking so long? Anyones guess is as good as mine. Logistical problems? Supply shortages? Old vehicles with compatibility issues? Who knows.

[Hushpuppy321]

Sounds like CLT City Council approved funds for design of the Street Car Phase III - They’re prioritizing having the vehicle move within its own R.O.W.