Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[New Name]

I seem to remember them saying Dec 2012... not sure if I'm making that up. I just remember thinking they might try to have it under construction during the DNC as a talking-point... and being surprised that wasn't the case.

[southslider]

^Best to break ground before January 2013, lest you risk a new Administration pulling your funding.

[ajfunder]

I think the main reason for the delay in Construction is that they don't want trade street torn up during the convention. On the otherhand streetcar construction could create a legitamate excuse to close trade street during the convention plus for security reasons of course.

Alex

[kermit]

/begin wildly unrealistic speculation/

The talk about running the trolly along the old P&N route from the stadium up to Seversville combined with Southsider's idea to run up Graham street to the planned streetcar route got me thinking about what I would do if I had an extra $50-70 million laying around -- it would go into this streetcar branch line: http://g.co/maps/k6tzm

The north end would use the old P&N line that Charlotte trolly is talking about resurrecting, single track is in place. The line would terminate at an old and abandoned textile mill in Seversville http://g.co/maps/4w72j that looks ripe for multi-family development and perhaps some developer contribution to streetcar costs (a small park and ride could also go here). While I initially thought of this segment as sleepy there is actually a great deal of existing and possible multi-family development near by (Skybridge, Wesley Village, Celedon, the old Beazer site, the gravel lot off Cedar St. and several other sites between Seversville and the Stadium. This stretch could see residential development similar to Southend.

A very short section of new track would need to be built connecting Cedar St to Graham st. Polaris shows that there is a rail easement for these tracks through the Hartigan's parking lot and the still existing underpass beneath the NS main line at the stadium -- track was here before, it does not look like substantial work would be needed to replace it. The line could run on the street along Graham up to Trade where it would merge into the planned streetcar line at Gateway station. This looks like about 2 miles -- perhaps $25 million since the ROW exists, no major structural work is necessary and the cars would use an existing maintenance center. Spurring development along west Graham (possibly the ugliest section of uptown) would also be a bonus.

The route would continue east on Trade on the 'real' streetcar tracks to Kings drive.

From Trade the streetcar would turn south on Kings passing Met Midtown, jog over to Kenilworth at Pearl Park Way, pass CMC and then turn west onto East blvd. The line would run in the street all the way to East-West station. At this point the streetcar could either reverse direction or travel on the LRT into town. This 'Kings branch' looks to be 2.5 miles (?), I'll optimistically put the cost at $30 million.

$60 million would firmly tie Wesley Heights (two streetcar routes), Dilworth (streetcar and LRT), Midtown and Cherry to downtown. Using dedicated equipment for this route would have the effect of increasing frequency on the vital Kings drive to Gateway station section of track -- improving center city circulation. As a bonus the line would connect CMC and the new medical school to the transit network and possibly spur high density growth to the north of center city.

One downside -- a streetcar on the old P&N tracks would prevent commuter rail on this route to Mt. Holly and Gastonia.

While the money certainly isn't just laying around, CATS may end up with some extra cash if the North line doesn't work out....

/end wildly unrealistic speculation/

Edited January 16, 2012 by kermit

[kermit]

The Charlotte Post is reporting that Kay Hagan visited JCSU on Tuesday as part of her duties on the Senate Education Committee. The Post reports that in addition to discussion about JCSU inside the fence there was a substantial amount of lobbying for federal funds for corridor revitalization including the streetcar.

Hagan was quoted:

“There are so many needs out there, but we’ve got to have a good road system, a good development system that can connect a university to our downtown areas, and when we look at the Lynx system here in Charlotte – something that’s working well – we need to continue the development of that.”

I won't nitpick Hagan on the difference between the Lynx and Streetcar.

While this was described as no more than a discussion, this does represent the kind of federal arm twisting (jockeying for earmarks) that Charlotte has done a poor job with in the past (IMO). The article left me optimistic that some Charlotte powerbrokers (like Ron Carter) are both using effective language ("connecting distressed communities") with the right people in DC (Hagan's office was quick to take credit for last month's TIGER grant).

http://www.thecharlottepost.com/index.php?src=news&srctype=detail&category=News&refno=4302

[Spartan]

I thought that LYNX was going to be the name of all of the rail transit in Charlotte?

[Norm2]

Honestly I think that are transit system needs to have one name. Not one name for rails and one name for buses....or a separate name for the streetcar if the case may be. It's all marketing I suppose.

[Sabaidee]

If I recalled, Lynx is for rapid services (although LRT isn't technically a rapid type of rail system) and the streetcar is operating much like a larger capacity bus line.

[Spartan]

If I recalled, Lynx is for rapid services (although LRT isn't technically a rapid type of rail system) and the streetcar is operating much like a larger capacity bus line.

Right. It's meant to include BRT, so really any rapid transit service.

[kermit]

I don't think the proposal is going anywhere but Curt Walton has proposed a 4 cent property tax increase for next year to fund $900 million in capital projects. One item on the list: $119 million to extend the streetcar.

http://www.charlotte...r-proposes.html

EDIT: How much of an extension would the $119 pay for?

EDIT 2: Thanks tozmervo. $50 million per mile for street running? Really? I was hoping $119 million would at least get the street car from I-85 to Central / Plaza.

As usual the business journal has a better article: http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2012/03/city-manager-makes-billion-dollar-pitch.html?page=all

Edited March 22, 2012 by kermit

[tozmervo]

I believe I read 2.5 miles. To JC Smith at one end, and to Sunnyside Ave just across Independence on Hawthorne at the other. Would mean 4 miles of track total

[dubone]

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/Budget/Documents/March%2021,%202012%20Handout%202%20Presentation.pdf

See page 47 of this presentation. It is Hawthorne @Sunnyside to Beatties Ford @Brookshire.

I cringed at the idea of a property tax increase, but these projects all seem very worthwhile and necessary. Of course it not only must pass the tax increase process as well as bond referendums. However, for the streetcar part, it is definitely an appropriate 2nd phase expansion. This was actually the initial first phase that Tober-era CATS ended up switching out for a long shot plan for the full corridor.

[ah59396]

I'm in favor of the increase, but frankly I think the list of projects are a kick in the face to the people of southeast Charlotte.

[HopHead]

I think most of these projects are viable and warrant the increase. Though, the one thing (shockingly) that will get the naysayers fired up is the street car extension.

[Guest]

I Love the plan for Bojangles Coliseum!!!

[southslider]

I'm in favor of the increase, but frankly I think the list of projects are a kick in the face to the people of southeast Charlotte.

If South Corridor projects benefitted South Charlotte, I would think Independence Corridor projects will benefit South Charlotte, too. That corridor is called "Southeast," by the way.

South Charlotte will be stronger with an outgrowth of tax base beyond its edges. That happened along South Boulevard. Now, it can hopefully happen towards Monroe Road and Independence Boulevard. Otherwise, it's time to give up and wall ourselves off from the rest of the City.

[kermit]

Mary Newsome sez that the starter segment will begin construction in "December or January" according to City Engineer Jeb Blackwell.

[Niner National]

I'm sure this is answered somewhere in this thread, but what are the expected timelines for expanding this thing beyond the starter route?

[kermit]

^ I believe that expansion is entirely dependent upon the property tax hike discussed at the top of this page and here: http://www.bizjourna...h.html?page=all

[southslider]

Page 51 of Council's packet in April showed funding starting in 2014:

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/Budget/Documents/Budget%20Retreat%20Packet%20-%20April%2011.pdf

[ajfunder]

This may have been asked but the little loop on the streetcar alignment where it turns onto Central Avenue, is that to serve an institution or to avoid an at grade crossing with the CSX on Central. If it is because of the railroad crossing, are streetcars not allowed to cross an active freight line at grade level, is it a request by CSX, or is it a safety descion made by the city?

[tozmervo]

The service yard will be located there, but primarily I think it's so streetcar service isn't disrupted by freight trains crossing central (much like vehicular traffic often is)

[southslider]

The streetcar yard (or VMF) had two potential locations, including the CMUD land near JCSU on French Street, as well as the Barnhardt land on Clement Avenue.

However, since the starter project will build a track connection to the Blue Line, I wonder if an exclusive VMF is still needed for the 4-mile CIP streetcar line. Granted, modern vehicles will be necessary for capacity and headways, while the starter project will re-purpose the former South End trolleys. But at what point, does a new VMF become necessary?

[kermit]

^ I wondered that as well. Given that there is a connection between the blue line and the streetcar and that a second vmf appears to be on tap for the intermodal yards area on the BLE a seperate streetcar vmf feels like overkill to me. Surely the second BLE vmf could be built to accomdate the additional streetcar vehicles. The Barnhardt land also seems like a site that is ripe for potential TOD.

[dubone]

I agree that they ought to continue focusing and expanding the South Tryon VMF, rather than having additional land focused on that purpose and having engineers and other maintenance employees separated.

However, just because it is slightly less linear, the blip on the map is not a negative. Sure, we don't want the streetcar stopping for long and slow freight train, nor other safety risks. But continuing up Hawthorne adds connectivity to Belmont neighborhood and Hawthorne HS/MS, supports redevelopment of the mills that are up there, and adds visibility to a somewhat underdeveloped street.