Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[rooster8]

It would be ironic if Cincinnati ended up with an abandoned streetcar project since they have the infamous abandoned subway.  Having said that, I read somewhere that it might cost the city more to cancel the project than it would to just complete it.  That doesn't mean logic will win the day.

[Urbanity]

City taking a shot with the small starts grant in the 2016 Federal Budget.  

 

Would know if awarded the funds in early 2015.  

 

Foxx would no longer be removed from the decision; He recused himself for a year on any funding decisions for Charlotte.  That ends this coming summer.

 

Not sure the amount but it appears that they plan for funding for the extension to Johnson C Smith in West and long Hawthorne in East (though I wish they would just go all the way and aim for Plaza).

 

Source: Observer

[southslider]

^Yep, CATS plans to advance "CityLYNX Gold Line - Phase 2" from 30% to 65% design this coming year, in order to be ready for Small Starts.  "Phase 2" includes extensions from Trade/Brevard to JCSU, plus Presby to Sunnyside.  A VMF at French Street, plus new modern vehicles, are also included in "Phase 2."

[ajfunder]

Drove the route of the starter line today and there is a large stack of rails at the corner of Kings and Elizabeth. The section between Kings and McDowell appears to be nearly ready for track laying. I wouldn't be suprised if this work begins soon. 

 

Glad to see the city is trying different avenues, I also agree that they should at least try to get the line to the Plaza station with this next phase but I will take whatever we can get.

Alex

[Guest]

Drove the route of the starter line today and there is a large stack of rails at the corner of Kings and Elizabeth. The section between Kings and McDowell appears to be nearly ready for track laying. I wouldn't be suprised if this work begins soon.

Glad to see the city is trying different avenues, I also agree that they should at least try to get the line to the Plaza station with this next phase but I will take whatever we can get.

Alex

To me plaza station to gateway is an absolute no brainer. By far the best way to show this viability.

[15895]

^ Plaza has the most economic development potential.

So I agree that its a no brainer that Plaza gets the gold line sooner rather than later.

[southslider]

Too costly to get around the CSX. Plaza will be within a half-mile of Sunnyside. Granted, Sunnyside may be too costly to get over Independence.

[dubone]

According to the official schedule, it is going to be utility work through the end of the year.  It will be great if construction starts in earnest before then. 

 

I agree that Midwood has great potential, but I do think that the high density already downtown and the high density zoning in place for new development makes that the best next priority for expansion.   Once the line gets to Gateway Village, then I think Midwood should be the next priority and eventually then West End and Beatties Ford.  

[nonillogical]

If it has to stop at Sunnyside for the near future, I guess the silver lining is that we may see more of an immediate effort to develop the Hawthorne/Central block as more of a significant node, and improve pedestrian linkages from the other side of the RR tracks. 

[TotalLamer]

I was just driving down Kings and they're unloading a TON of rail there at the Trade/Elizabeth intersection.

[dubone]

The pedestrian crossing of the railroad is absurdly bad.   That would be a no-brainer to fix in conjunction with the extension to Sunnyside.  But this is more hypothetical since we are simply lying in wait for federal money for any future extension.

 

 

I still wish the city would put in plans to eventually bridge over the tracks.  There is already an incline from the tracks up to Bistro Le Bon, so just fill that in with a retaining wall either side of the tracks put a short bridge over the tracks, declining back down west of the tracks.   Now is the time to put that in the books rather than after something is built so that developers can adjust to the higher altitude of the road.    It benefits developers of denser projects, as parking can seem below grade but not actually require the digging to do it.  

[DEnd]

I was just driving down Kings and they're unloading a TON of rail there at the Trade/Elizabeth intersection.

 

So between 60ish and 80ish feet?

[TotalLamer]

A figurative ton, not a literal ton. 

[Niner National]

Drove by earlier and it looked like they were putting the first two rails in place this morning. Was surprised to see the rails were being positioned on wooden ties?

[dubone]

What?!  That is very odd.  At minimum, they would use concrete ties that they cover with asphalt, but they had always described that they would be using concrete like they did on Elizabeth avenue.  

 

The only thing I can see from a quick research is that possibly this is a less expensive method of holding the tracks in place and then pouring concrete to fill in and around.  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Streetcar_Track_Construction_at_Bathurst_and_Queen_St._W.jpg

 

http://galitrodan.tumblr.com/post/30249280456/ttc-crews-and-construction-workers-tear-up-the

 

I suppose if they are actually doing it and if they did that recently in Toronto, then it must be an approved and sound method of construction, and obviously the wood worked fine for all those lines they used to build a century ago.  

 

How amazing would that be to get costs lower and end up with lower construction estimates for expanding the line?

[dubone]

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/this-animated-gif-perfectly-sums-up-why-no-one-should-e-1467819267

 

This is making its way around the internet this week.  Most of us are already intuitively clear on relative efficiency of public transit and human-scale transportation, but I thought about Charlotte specifically with the fact that it is a streetcar in the GIF.  

 

Obviously the same logic would apply to buses, but if buses don't succeed in winning the business of people who otherwise would be driving a car, then they don't actually result in the higher average efficiency of the transportation system in a city.  That is where we hope that the higher capacity and more middle-class and visitor friendly streetcar slow the growth of traffic.

 

Of course, as I soap-boxed on before, buses do not come close to winning the business of middle class citizens because they are generally horribly bad experiences.  

[dubone]

3 posts in a row... fun times.  

 

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/citymanager/CommunicationstoCouncil/Documents/Memo%2085%20%20November%2013,%202013.pdf

 

Here is the City Manager Memo on officially applying to federal small starts funding for the 2016 budget.  

 

The process goes that by February, we will know if we have been accepted at least to go through the next part of the design and engineering process.   The implication is if they get through the February decision, it is likely that it will would eventually get funding, even if they don't win the competitive process the first year.  The Blue Line went through that and had to wait and had to find cost savings, etc.  

 

This is make or break time for the project for the next 3 months.  

[15895]

Mayor Foxx will Be speaking next week at the Chambers meeting.

Let's hope for a wink-wink, nod-nod

Edited November 25, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[archiham04]

Drove by earlier and it looked like they were putting the first two rails in place this morning. Was surprised to see the rails were being positioned on wooden ties?

I spoke with the PM and they are just welding the tracks together right now.  They won't be setting the tracks until December.  They are probably using the wood ties as a working surface.  The final rails are concrete cast into the road surface.

[Niner National]

I spoke with the PM and they are just welding the tracks together right now.  They won't be setting the tracks until December.  They are probably using the wood ties as a working surface.  The final rails are concrete cast into the road surface.

makes sense. I thought that didn't seem right.

[dubone]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

 

http://www.treehugger.com/slideshows/urban-design/streetcars-save-cities/

 

Here is an interesting piece from TreeHugger showing the benefits for the much maligned streetcar/tram method of public transportation, mainly in it's densification and pedestrianization of the urban form. 

[15895]

I can't stand Fallon... She says she's not worried about streetcar because we'll never get federal dollars.

http://m.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2013/11/old-battles-await-new-charlotte-city.html

[southslider]

Fallon supports an east-west light-rail line, instead of streetcar. The portions of Gold Line advancing don't extend much beyond Gold Rush. And even though the $63 million found by the City to match the latest Federal ask (now Small Starts) doesn't come from the latest property tax, it does come from savings and balances from prior capital budgets funded through the previous tax increase.

[dubone]

Well, I do prefer an East-West Light Rail line over the streetcar (which is generally just light rail with slightly smaller cars, and no dedicated right of way).  However, it may be an example of the perfect being the enemy of the good, as there is no momentum whatsoever for a full scale light rail line, so opposing a line with a decade of support that had always been planned in addition to a light rail line, is not helpful toward the goal of a light rail line.

 

Frankly, all the politics will be diminuitive on the subject until revenues for the sales tax pick up properly (by a ruling on internet sales) or some new revenue source to return transit to its originally projected revenues.  

[Spartan]

Light rail also has far fewer stops/stations. Because of the alignment needed for and east/west route, I'm not sure how effective an in-street light rail would be due to slower speeds and lack of dedicated right of way.