Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[Urbanity]

^Ha I work with a few people (at a NC State institution) who live in South Carolina and commute here everyday to the North side.   I can't tell you how many times the following two things are a subject of conversations from them

1. They live in SC because they don't trust NC with all its taxes and evil government big spending  (I exaggerate only for succinctness) 
2. They think Charlotte should build better highways for them to get to work because they sit in so much traffic

uhm, ya....

[ajfunder]

^Shocking, as I post this there are more positive comments relating to the streetcar then negative on the Observef article.

I look forward to the day modern trams roll across Trade and Tryon.

[ah59396]

I work with a lot of people who are flat out stunned at the idea that I use the train to get around town. Seriously.

[15895]

^Ha I work with a few people (at a NC State institution) who live in South Carolina and commute here everyday to the North side. I can't tell you how many times the following two things are a subject of conversations from them

• They live in SC because they don't trust NC with all its taxes and evil government big spending (I exaggerate only for succinctness)
• They think Charlotte should build better highways for them to get to work because they sit in so much traffic

uhm, ya....

Then they shouldn't take our jobs. Yes, our - Charlotte - jobs. The towns and cities around us thrive only because of us. All these commuters from their McMansions in suburbs wouldn't have jobs to live in their McMansions were it not for our taxes & streetcars & bike trails & incentives....

That is my biggest pet peeve

[HopHead]

Then they shouldn't take our jobs. Yes, our - Charlotte - jobs. The towns and cities around us thrive only because of us. All these commuters from their McMansions in suburbs wouldn't have jobs to live in their McMansions were it not for our taxes & streetcars & bike trails & incentives....

That is my biggest pet peeve

 

 

Well, as someone that doesn't live in a McMansion, but in the suburbs, I find your statement rather ridiculous. My family chose to live in a surrounding area because the schools are better for our kid and the cost of living is better. My real estate taxes are at most 40% of what it would cost in the city limits. The modest house we live in would have cost $600k had it been in the good parts of Charlotte proper. And no, we don't live in Ballantyne either. Just because you don't live in the city limits (don't get me wrong, I'd love to live in Dilworth like I used to, if I didn't have to chop off an arm and a leg or won the lottery) doesn't mean we don't contribute back. My wife works uptown, pays NC Income state taxes, I go to countless games and concerts at the Cable Box, and other nearby venues, PAY for my light rail tickets and eat out at numerous restaurants inside the loop. So don't give me that garbage. Plenty of people that I know do the same and then some. 

[15895]

Well, as someone that doesn't live in a McMansion, but in the suburbs, I find your statement rather ridiculous. My family chose to live in a surrounding area because the schools are better for our kid and the cost of living is better. My real estate taxes are at most 40% of what it would cost in the city limits. The modest house we live in would have cost $600k had it been in the good parts of Charlotte proper. And no, we don't live in Ballantyne either. Just because you don't live in the city limits (don't get me wrong, I'd love to live in Dilworth like I used to, if I didn't have to chop off an arm and a leg or won the lottery) doesn't mean we don't contribute back. My wife works uptown, pays NC Income state taxes, I go to countless games and concerts at the Cable Box, and other nearby venues, PAY for my light rail tickets and eat out at numerous restaurants inside the loop. So don't give me that garbage. Plenty of people that I know do the same and then some.

I'm talking about people who complain about Charlotte & taxes etc. people who make zero contributions either financially, ideas or as a region/community.

People vocal against light rail, arenas, panthers, our airport etc. yet want to complain about CLT... Yet are giddy to take advtage of the jobs, Charlottes state tax money etc it's So selfish.

Edited February 27, 2014 by AirNostrumMAD

[HopHead]

I'm talking about people who complain about Charlotte & taxes etc. people who make zero contributions either financially, ideas or as a region/community.

People vocal against light rail, arenas, panthers, our airport etc. yet want to complain about CLT... Yet are giddy to take advtage of the jobs, Charlottes state tax money etc it's So selfish.

 

Point taken. Though, if someone is so "miserable" here, then why live here? Never understood that. If you want something different badly enough, you do something about it. I love the Charlotte area, just choose where I live differently than others. But put more than my fair share of $ into the local economy, including things like the light rail when I head into town. Not sure how much benefit someone like me would get from the street car line, but it has its merits. 

Edited February 27, 2014 by wend28

[ah59396]

Wend28, I think plenty of people live in the burbs for the same reason you do, and there's nothing wrong with it. Living in (or around) a major city means more than just bike trails and dive bars. Charlotte needs to tread the line of keeping itself affordable while offering world class ammenities ALONG with the important stuff; like great schools and infrastructure. I do wish more suburbanites shared your sentiment! That said, I think many are coming around. Generally, I believe we hear from a very vocal minority against anything taxes or mass tranist, and I expect public opinion will only improve as time passes.

[HopHead]

I really hate being labeled a suburanite... 

[Urbanity]

To bring this back around my comment was in regards to three co-workers who live in SC and complain bitterly about how NC and Charlotte in particular do things, but have built their lives around us...  I actually had a converstation with one yesterday about the streetcar and he basically somehow found a was to interject "Obamacare" as a rationale for his detest of the streetcar.

 

 I. kid. you. not.

 

Now that ain't all suburbanites.  And it ain't all of people who live in South Carolina.  But it does seem to be the majority of that vocal minority who shake their fist at the sky, spit on the ground and scream boondoggle every time any discussion about municipal infrastructure investments (outside of more highways) are discussed.

[birky]

^those types are my favorites commenters on the Observer.

 

"This is why I moved to Union County!"

 

So why are you posting about a Charlotte issue??

[DEnd]

^those types are my favorites commenters on the Observer.

 

"This is why I moved to Union County!"

 

So why are you posting about a Charlotte issue??

I live even farther away (in Cleveland County), and I guess I'm welcome to post because I mostly agree with y'all? Us suburban and exurban residents are still affected by Charlotte decisions. I tend to welcome dissenting opinions. They make me reexamine my opinions and beliefs and more often than not they help me strengthen my arguments.

[Urbanity]

I live even farther away (in Cleveland County), and I guess I'm welcome to post because I mostly agree with y'all? Us suburban and exurban residents are still affected by Charlotte decisions. I tend to welcome dissenting opinions. They make me reexamine my opinions and beliefs and more often than not they help me strengthen my arguments.

I fear my earlier post may have made you feel unwelcome - so I hope to explain.  I know it's off-topic, but it is very related to the streetcar discussion in the scheme of the fight to have this built within the context of the pr battle for it.

 

The short of it:  People who happen to live in the suburbs and exurbs are part of the metro area and I think their opinion is worthy, but the board is about URBAN Planet and is devoted to those who think, breathe, and love urban life.  

 

I don't think anyone feels there is a requirement to agree with all things urban, and in fact none of us agree with everything among ourselves.  There is always room for debate if something is right for the city.

 

That said we have a higher level of agreement of frustration/contempt for those who don't live inside the urban area who try to block or derail urban developments.  That contempt goes up a considerable notch for those who attempt to derail simply under the guise of politics or the label of everything in a city is "bad".    

 

I hope that explains my position.

[carolinagarnet]

^ I think the larger point is that this is being paid for by the city, not the county nor the state. People who live in city limits have every right to raise hell if they feel their money is being misspent, but those who only marginally contribute to tax rolls through sales and other user taxes do not have a strong position to protest city-funded projects.

[Urbanity]

^I think the largest issue is that all you need is love...

[dubone]

It also makes sense that the types of transportation infrastructure that suburbanites even within city limits prefer are those that attempt to solve the issues with the freeway spokes.   Of course, this is an unsolvable problem because it is a necessary consequence of the suburban sprawl style of city building, and snow can render that whole system kaput.   By definition, sub-urban design always relies on driving longer distances, and almost always includes a drive on an interstate freeway to get to regional centers for jobs, sports, theater, museums, etc.    

 

The thing that is complicated about the supporting streetcar, is that it is not immediately clear to suburban residents is the 'what is in it for me' is that by having new residents moving here chose urban lifestyles instead of suburban ones, that we slow the growth of the pattern of development that is causing those traffic nightmares in the first place.   It is impossible to win that argument as most people don't like to stop and think about the big picture that their life in the sprawl multiplied a million people over causes terrible traffic on very high cost interstates.  Whereas denser urban developments where residents use transit, sidewalks, bike lanes, and drive only short distances on local roads multiplied by millions of residents is far less problematic.    Some suburbanites 'get' it and then start to resent new growth, but lack of growth is the death of cities, so our leaders must chose growth in an urban format or growth in a suburban format, and the choice becomes a no-brainer, dense urban development is the only way to grow without severe traffic and pollution problems.   Only if you have thought about this problem do you then arrive at the conclusion that greenways, bike lanes, complete streets with proper sidewalks, and fixed transit systems (even those that share space in city street lanes) are necessary to spur and support denser urban growth.      

 

And then the magic happens, blighted commercial "corridors of crap" like South Boulevard suddenly sprout dozens of dense apartment and people end up loving living there because they are so close to restaurants and nightlife and jobs and shops, and have a good impression of the city.  

 

Streetcars and light rail don't solve every problem, but they are worth their weight in gold for cities trying to avoid long term problems that suburbanization brings, but still continue to grow and attract new residents.

 

Phase II cannot come soon enough, and from there, if the Red Line is pronounced dead, I hope the city goes back to the drawing board to plan additional lines to pursue in the 2020s.  

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Cannon is a hottie!

[kermit]

Just got off the Sprinter bus from the airport. I was reminded of how much busses suck to ride. I am a pretty robust traveller but the bouncing, bagging, noise, uncomfortable seats, general slowness and the looming thought that "the driver is going to make some unexpected turn becuase its Saturday at 5 and the Sprinter route terminates at Wilkinson and Remount on Saturday" (it didn't).

I would really like to be car free, but busses just suck. Since I have a choice at the moment, I aint gonna ride them any more.

Rant over

[dubone]

I agree.  I can't stand the feelings and experience of riding the bus.  Streetcar is 1000x times better.  

[southslider]

Buses carry 80% of all CATS customers. Just a dozen routes (out of 70 total) carry over half of all bus rides. Sprinter Airport isn't even among the top 12 routes in ridership.

[15895]

Buses carry 80% of all CATS customers. Just a dozen routes (out of 70 total) carry over half of all bus rides. Sprinter Airport isn't even among the top 12 routes in ridership.

It wouldn't surprise me. Metrolineans who can afford to fly probably are not going to take buses to the airport. Likewise, those flying to Charlotte I would imagine would prefer rental car or taxi.

I could imagine streetcar/LightRail would dramatically increase those numbers for both locals & visitors

(I use Sprrinter, but I love trains, planes & automobiles. Also prefer connecting flights)

[dubone]

Buses carry 80% of all CATS customers. Just a dozen routes (out of 70 total) carry over half of all bus rides. Sprinter Airport isn't even among the top 12 routes in ridership.

 

But CATS is just a small sliver of the total transportation market in the city.   Those dozen highly successful routes are in areas that must ride buses rather than choice riders.  There are certainly some choice riders in mixed-income urban neighborhoods, but clearly not the social cross-section that the rail pulls.     

[southslider]

Sadly, it also explains why the Airport is a poor candidate for LYNX. BLE largely follows the busiest bus route. Gold Line follows the second and third busiest routes. Even Silver Line falls between the second and fourth busiest routes.

[abttown]

Hope this works.  All were taken today (3/2/2014)

 

Edited March 3, 2014 by abttown

[dubone]

Thanks for the construction photos!  I didn't realize they had gotten so much of the track in already.