Greenville Skyline

[distortedlogic]

They definitely did, but was that before or after the redesign? Do we have any idea what was changed and what was kept the same with the redesign?

[GvilleSC]

The renderings for the inside were indeed before the redesign. They looked pretty nice, but seemed to go much better with the "old" exterior design. Not sure how the original inside would look with the current outside, but they don't seem to go together to me. I still have my questions about this project: Why the bait and switch?, Why scale back on the condos if all were already sold?, Why wait until after g-breaking to redesign?, Why not just use a smaller version of the original design?...

This project just doesn't add up to me.

Edited January 6, 2008 by GvilleSC

[distortedlogic]

What do you guys think of these pics. This was DT Charlotte in 1978. I have always heard gville is about 20-30 years "behind" Charlotte. Basing things just on the appearance of the skyline, it appears pretty comperable to what Gville's skyline is today. Not sure exactly when they started seeing their skyline boom, but I suppose it is at least possible Gville's could look something like Carlottes today by about 2040. What do you guys think? Anyone have any idea what the "outlook" for Charlotte was in the late 70s early 80s? Was this when they were "on the verge"?

[krazeeboi]

Here's a shot of Charlotte's skyline in 1975 (basically the same as in the 1978 shot):

Here's an excerpt from a relevant document I came across online:

The recent history of Charlotte is intricately connected with the recent history of Bank of America. Charlotte had long been a regional banking hub, in part because of the presence of a Federal Reserve Bank. Then, in the mid-70's, Hugh McColl established the Bank of America, the second largest bank in the country, in Charlotte. At the same time, Wachovia and First Union, two more large regional banks located in Charlotte, also grew. Between 1988 and 1996, Charlotte became one of the world's fastest growing financial centers, transforming Charlotte from a mid-sized southern city into a large, international banking capital.

[distortedlogic]

I tend to agree. Greenville's biggest chance at a skyline changing project, Carolina First, opted for 85, so there aren't many other local companies out there who could step in. It seems like Gville's best chances for towers will be either residential or mixed use, such as with gateway. Just thought they were interesting pics as they show what could happen in Gville at least theoretically, though probably unlikely, over the next 30 years.

Was all of charlottes momentum in the mid to late 70s all banking? What kind of growth were they looking at? I just wonder b/c gville seems to have a lot of momentum, despite most of its major projects being on hold. Just trying to get a sense of how Gville today really compares to Charlotte 30 yrs ago.

[distortedlogic]

Not to turn this into a Greenville/Charlotte thread, but this video shows a great 3-D journey of Charlotte's current skyline. It is looking very nice. It is also using this as a marketing tool, promoting available space to possible HQs. I know it would not be as impressive, but it would be nice for Gville to put something like this together. Charlotte really has a lot going on right now, especially skyline-wise (since this is a skyline thread), maybe Gville can take a few notes.

[krazeeboi]

Was all of charlottes momentum in the mid to late 70s all banking? What kind of growth were they looking at? I just wonder b/c gville seems to have a lot of momentum, despite most of its major projects being on hold. Just trying to get a sense of how Gville today really compares to Charlotte 30 yrs ago.

[gvegascple]

I didn't know if there was already a good thread for this so I just started a new one. I was looking at the new city pages from the UP home page last night. It has been awhile since I have been to Charlotte, but the skyline shot looked very good. I have heard it said that Gville is 20-30 years behind Charlotte, but somehow I don't think our skyline will look like that by 2036 (not at the current rate anyway)!

So the question is: How long will it be before Greenville has a skyline like Columbia's or like Charlotte's?

Columbia's I could see not too far off, especially if some or most of the ones proposed last year actually get built. But I am doubtful if it will get to what Charlotte's is now for at least several decades (unless new large

companies start to locate DT, or local developers finally discover the idea of affordable condos).

Here are my guesses: Columbia (currently) by 2025

Charlotte (currently) by 2060

What do ya'll think?

[distortedlogic]

Ouch. That's not very good promotion.

I agree that we should not try to become other cities. And really that is beyond the scope of this thread anyway, as it only deals with the skyline. I was simply putting out some thoughts about where ours might be in the future, and one of our best ways to visualize it is by looking at other skylines.

[krazeeboi]

That Forbes ranking is something crazy. It also listed NYC as one of the nation's most miserable cities. If Charlotte is ranked miserable, what in the world does that mean for SC cities, none of which are growing nowhere near as fast as Charlotte, both in terms of the local economy and population?

[motonenterprises]

That Forbes ranking is something crazy. It also listed NYC as one of the nation's most miserable cities. If Charlotte is ranked miserable, what in the world does that mean for SC cities, none of which are growing nowhere near as fast as Charlotte, both in terms of the local economy and population?

[krazeeboi]

Be careful with this statement. I have a cousin who lives in Charlotte, but says she likes Greenville better. We don't lack much down here to you big city folk and we're making ground big guy.

[gvegascple]

Firstly, nothing I said was a slight against Greenville. Secondly, I was only calling the title of this study into question and I wasn't talking about personal preferences or which city is "better." It is simply a fact that when you look at the typical indicators that measure a city's prosperity (hard, quantifiable data), for the most part, Charlotte outperforms any city in SC. That's what I was getting at. So if Charlotte's woes (a by-product of rapid growth) make it "miserable," it sure appears as though people in other cities (in and out of SC) want to be miserable too.

[krazeeboi]

Charlotte, apparently, is very high in those "misery" areas and perhaps in exchange for a nice skyline and rapid, unplanned growth (as the post linking the Forbes article suggested).

[linkerjpatrick]

So are other successful cities in the nation. You can't have rapid growth and not expect some downsides to come with that. I'd rather be here in Charlotte and experience the so-called "misery" along with the prosperity than to be in a city like Detroit with not much more to offer besides "misery." The good thing here is that Charlotte is moving in the right direction, particularly when it comes to transit alternatives--which will help to lower commute times. I can only hope that SC cities will learn from the mistakes of other cities that have experienced a measure of success and not try to replicate the downsides as well. Only time will tell.

At any rate, I think we've digressed enough. The original reference to Charlotte was about its burgeoning skyline, so let's try to keep the discussion in that vein (skyline-related).

[gvegascple]

So are other successful cities in the nation. You can't have rapid growth and not expect some downsides to come with that. I'd rather be here in Charlotte and experience the so-called "misery" along with the prosperity than to be in a city like Detroit with not much more to offer besides "misery." The good thing here is that Charlotte is moving in the right direction, particularly when it comes to transit alternatives--which will help to lower commute times. I can only hope that SC cities will learn from the mistakes of other cities that have experienced a measure of success and not try to replicate the downsides as well. Only time will tell.

At any rate, I think we've digressed enough. The original reference to Charlotte was about its burgeoning skyline, so let's try to keep the discussion in that vein (skyline-related).

[krazeeboi]

I think that wishing for the kind of misery that comes from prosperity without planning is not a very logical argument. If you were to ask residents or visitors of Greenville about what makes Greenville great, I guarantee that invariably your response will be QUALITY OF LIFE. That is exactly the kind of thing that a misery index shines a spotlight on and reminds us of the downsides of even great sounding terms such as Prosperity when achieved without caution.

[erm1981]

Personally I dont think Greenville will ever have the skyline Charlotte has. Our banks are not building towers downtown so do you expect them to build residential towers in downtown greenville that are 800ft tall? Im not seeing that for a very very long time. Maybe 100 years?

[ilaustin36]

Personally I dont think Greenville will ever have the skyline Charlotte has. Our banks are not building towers downtown so do you expect them to build residential towers in downtown greenville that are 800ft tall? Im not seeing that for a very very long time. Maybe 100 years?

[motonenterprises]

I think Greenville is going to surprise all of you. There will not only be tall buildings downtown, but around the ICAR area also. Thats my prediction and I feel sure about it. It will happen quicker than most think. They are already building mid rises there. Krazeeboi, I wasn't angry or snapping at you.

[krazeeboi]

I think Greenville is going to surprise all of you. There will not only be tall buildings downtown, but around the ICAR area also. Thats my prediction and I feel sure about it. It will happen quicker than most think. They are already building mid rises there. Krazeeboi, I wasn't angry or snapping at you.

[Spartan]

The article wasn't about what makes a city better, it was about using a "misery" index to rank worst cities, so you should not be surprised that an item such as "prosperity" is not found in an index of that nature. "Lack of prosperity", however, is what you should expect. The article outlines the following specific (hard, quantifiable) data to rank what might make a bad city to live in (i.e. miserable): unemployment, personal tax rates,commute times, weather, crime and that toxic waste. Charlotte, apparently, is very high in those "misery" areas and perhaps in exchange for a nice skyline and rapid, unplanned growth (as the post linking the Forbes article suggested).

[krazeeboi]

Also, many Charlotteans will tell you that Greenville's Main Street blows Charlotte's Tryon Street out of the water... and they would be right.

[GvilleSC]

The Pinnacle really doesn't excite me in terms of ground level. It's going to be similar to the dimensions of the Liberty building, if you're familiar with that. It's not going to have much space for retail of significance and there will be a driveway on Main to the parking deck. The City has done a good job keeping parking garages from fronting Main and it helps with the walk-ability of the street. It mainly just excites me in terms of size, sitting at 15 stories.

I think the real opportunity for Greenville to combine a type of big city feel with the pedestrian friendly qualities lie at the really big open gaps on Main Street, which include: Main at Washington Street as well as Main at Broad Street.

[Greenville]

I think the real opportunity for Greenville to combine a type of big city feel with the pedestrian friendly qualities lie at the really big open gaps on Main Street, which include: Main at Washington Street as well as Main at Broad Street.