Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[MJLO]

1 minute ago, scottythe1nonly said:

Can somebody explain to me what the "Vote No" Union Position was?  If the No votes had carried, what was the Union's next step to restore funding AND get a better contract?

I was kind of confused about the logic behind that one myself. 

[scottythe1nonly]

1 hour ago, MJLO said:

I was kind of confused about the logic behind that one myself. 

I had friends on FB ranting about voting "NO" to support the Union.  They wouldn't explain what the next step would be in that scenario.  The Union basically had no options.  It seems like their chance to force the Cities' hands was either many months ago or after the millage renewal.  

 

[arcturus]

36 minutes ago, scottythe1nonly said:

I had friends on FB ranting about voting "NO" to support the Union.  They wouldn't explain what the next step would be in that scenario.  The Union basically had no options.  It seems like their chance to force the Cities' hands was either many months ago or after the millage renewal.  

 

Chapters of the Amalgamated Transit Union across the country have a long history of not making sense.

[scottythe1nonly]

FTR I don't think the Union officially opposed the vote.  The NO vote sentiment seemed to come from disgruntled members

[organsnyder]

I'm not well-connected with the local labor movement, but I'm definitely more well-informed than the average citizen (as is everyone on this board). My perception of the local ATU is being colored by this and other stunts (disrupting the Labor Day bridge walk, a lot of confrontational posts on social media...). I am pro-labor, but I'm not holding the ATU in high regard based on these events.

Yes, the two-year timespan with no contract is extremely concerning. But, based on these events, I'm beginning to wonder if the ATU has been reasonable during negotiations. Of course, these recent actions could be borne out of desperation—and they've certainly gained exposure for their cause. But it's coming at the cost of public perception.

It does appear that the ATU did not officially oppose the millage (they remained neutral, as did the Kent County Democratic Party). However, like any group, the most vocal and antagonistic members are clouding the perception of the entire organization. This can't be beneficial for them in the long term, especially with events like last night's vote portraying the ATU as having no real clout.

All around, a crappy situation, to be sure. Everyone will win when the Rapid employees achieve a contract that is acceptable to all. But I'm extremely thankful that our entire regional transit system didn't become a casualty in a high-stakes game of chicken.

[RegalTDP]

Reminds me of when the union president pulled this stunt a couple years ago.  It's like "We're mad as Hell and we're gonna find the most counterproductive ways to channel it."

[GRDadof3]

8 hours ago, organsnyder said:

I'm not well-connected with the local labor movement, but I'm definitely more well-informed than the average citizen (as is everyone on this board). My perception of the local ATU is being colored by this and other stunts (disrupting the Labor Day bridge walk, a lot of confrontational posts on social media...). I am pro-labor, but I'm not holding the ATU in high regard based on these events.

Yes, the two-year timespan with no contract is extremely concerning. But, based on these events, I'm beginning to wonder if the ATU has been reasonable during negotiations. Of course, these recent actions could be borne out of desperation—and they've certainly gained exposure for their cause. But it's coming at the cost of public perception.

It does appear that the ATU did not officially oppose the millage (they remained neutral, as did the Kent County Democratic Party). However, like any group, the most vocal and antagonistic members are clouding the perception of the entire organization. This can't be beneficial for them in the long term, especially with events like last night's vote portraying the ATU as having no real clout.

All around, a crappy situation, to be sure. Everyone will win when the Rapid employees achieve a contract that is acceptable to all. But I'm extremely thankful that our entire regional transit system didn't become a casualty in a high-stakes game of chicken.

There's one guy who does a lot of articles/op eds for the ATU local and he is definitely hurting their cause. He rants about some of the most inane stuff based on a bunch of bad info. 

[Allison Slater]

I'm reminded of this video. Disclaimer, the journalist here is part of the Conservative media, but it showed an organized protest in which the ATU was involved (or not really) and it was really pathetic.  None of the union members who were supposed to show ever showed but one or two, they basically got some gullible college kids to protest for them, and then try to block buses from getting into central station.  I've not seen much that gives me a good impression of the ATU. But perhaps it was all from the couple members who give it a bad impression.
 

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by tSlater

[joeDowntown]

The laker line finally got funding. I think this will be huge. Not a fan of the way the silver line turned out, but it think the Lakers Line will have huge numbers of riders  

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/02/laker_line_funding_gets_federa.html#incart_river_mobile_home

Joe

[GRDadof3]

Interesting read about the Q-Line in Detroit this morning:

http://michiganradio.org/post/one-year-detroit-s-qline-falling-well-short-expectations

 

[MJLO]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Interesting read about the Q-Line in Detroit this morning:

http://michiganradio.org/post/one-year-detroit-s-qline-falling-well-short-expectations

 

Are similar things happening with the Silver Line here?   Outside of stoppages since it's not on a fixed guideway.

[x99]

4 hours ago, MJLO said:

Are similar things happening with the Silver Line here?   Outside of stoppages since it's not on a fixed guideway.

Oh, yeah. It never came anywhere close to meeting original projections, which were of course the only thing that make it look like burning tens of millions on it wasn't one of the dumbest ideas ever.  No news stories in at least a year, except for them trying get corporate sponsorships for the Silver Line buses because they are having problems with operations costs.  Whether a fair "quick" look at ridership means anything at this point is doubtful.  North of Wealthy the rides are completely free. 

[organsnyder]

6 hours ago, x99 said:

Oh, yeah. It never came anywhere close to meeting original projections, which were of course the only thing that make it look like burning tens of millions on it wasn't one of the dumbest ideas ever.  No news stories in at least a year, except for them trying get corporate sponsorships for the Silver Line buses because they are having problems with operations costs.  Whether a fair "quick" look at ridership means anything at this point is doubtful.  North of Wealthy the rides are completely free. 

Anecdotally, in my experience there are usually only a few people that ride the bus only inside of the free zone. Most are going to/from Hall or further south. At least a quarter of the riders are Spectrum employees, in my estimation—it definitely takes some of the demand off of the Michigan Street parking ramps.

Again, this is anecdotal, but during commute times buses are usually at least 75% full—sometimes standing room only. This is with the 10-minute intervals. Fare enforcement officers aren't finding nearly as many freeloaders as they did initially, either.

[x99]

13 hours ago, organsnyder said:

Anecdotally, in my experience there are usually only a few people that ride the bus only inside of the free zone. Most are going to/from Hall or further south. At least a quarter of the riders are Spectrum employees, in my estimation—it definitely takes some of the demand off of the Michigan Street parking ramps.

Again, this is anecdotal, but during commute times buses are usually at least 75% full—sometimes standing room only. This is with the 10-minute intervals. Fare enforcement officers aren't finding nearly as many freeloaders as they did initially, either.

That's positive.  My recollection is that ridership was running around 2000ish versus projections of about 7500.  My "fear" is that they picked up enough "short haul" legitimate free riders who there may not be a way of tracking, thus allowing the Rapid to significantly inflate its ridership figures.  

[organsnyder]

40 minutes ago, x99 said:

That's positive.  My recollection is that ridership was running around 2000ish versus projections of about 7500.  My "fear" is that they picked up enough "short haul" legitimate free riders who there may not be a way of tracking, thus allowing the Rapid to significantly inflate its ridership figures.  

I'd be interested in seeing some real figures (The Rapid's website is too opaque—I'm hoping out of negligence rather than intentional obfuscation). In my experience, ridership seems quite high—at least during peak commuting times—and the #1 route also stays very busy.

[Morris]

On 5/2/2018 at 7:40 AM, GRDadof3 said:

Interesting read about the Q-Line in Detroit this morning:

http://michiganradio.org/post/one-year-detroit-s-qline-falling-well-short-expectations

 

The problem with the Q-Line, besides all the parking on the tracks, which all the parkers have to obey, or get towed, is the length of it, it only goes to New Town, and people like my daughter, who lives in Brush Park, across the street from the New Red Wings stadium,  it ends too short into downtown, so she just walks it.  Putting the tracks in the middle of Woodward would have been smarter, no parking problems, and could have had a Q-Line only lane. Also, bicyclist would not have to deal with the rails, which will crash a bike. 

Ridership will increase, when the new/rehabbed apartment complexes in New Town get occupied and there is a one rate for the Q-Line and the connected People Mover, which they don't have now. Also, there needs to be a reasonable and safe parking lot at the end  of the Q-Line, so students and workers can park and ride, for a good price. Also, why do city busses use the same route. That cuts into the ridership in a big way.....

The Q-line is expected to extend North to 8 mile, and when that happens, and when city busses don't use the same route, making a dedicated lane for the Q-line so there is less delays, it will get more ridership.  

 

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, Morris said:

The problem with the Q-Line, besides all the parking on the tracks, which all the parkers have to obey, or get towed, is the length of it, it only goes to New Town, and people like my daughter, who lives in Brush Park, across the street from the New Red Wings stadium,  it ends too short into downtown, so she just walks it.  Putting the tracks in the middle of Woodward would have been smarter, no parking problems, and could have had a Q-Line only lane. Also, bicyclist would not have to deal with the rails, which will crash a bike. 

Ridership will increase, when the new/rehabbed apartment complexes in New Town get occupied and there is a one rate for the Q-Line and the connected People Mover, which they don't have now. Also, there needs to be a reasonable and safe parking lot at the end  of the Q-Line, so students and workers can park and ride, for a good price. Also, why do city busses use the same route. That cuts into the ridership in a big way.....

The Q-line is expected to extend North to 8 mile, and when that happens, and when city busses don't use the same route, making a dedicated lane for the Q-line so there is less delays, it will get more ridership.  

 

Agreed. I saw the Q-Line a month ago, and while there were only a handful of riders, the area is exploding. I think it'd be a pretty convenient transit option, especially if they extend it all the way downtown.

Joe

[whitemice]

On 5/3/2018 at 11:21 AM, organsnyder said:

I'd be interested in seeing some real figures (The Rapid's website is too opaque—I'm hoping out of negligence rather than intentional obfuscation).

I post easy-to-read numbers @ http://urbangr.org/therapid from the RAPID's monthly reports.  I suspect the RAPID does not go out of its way to publish this data - and no transit agency I am aware of does - because they are so easy to misunderstand.  Ridership swings due to so many reasons including weather, where holidays fall, and how many weekends up in a given month.

Ridership also looks very different on different routes.  DASH ridership is doing very well, and with the improvements coming in August will likely increase dramatically.

[GRDadof3]

21 hours ago, whitemice said:

I post easy-to-read numbers @ http://urbangr.org/therapid from the RAPID's monthly reports.  I suspect the RAPID does not go out of its way to publish this data - and no transit agency I am aware of does - because they are so easy to misunderstand.  Ridership swings due to so many reasons including weather, where holidays fall, and how many weekends up in a given month.

Ridership also looks very different on different routes.  DASH ridership is doing very well, and with the improvements coming in August will likely increase dramatically.

I did a little digging on the Rapid's site and did find a reports and publications section. Wasn't too difficult. 

The latest yearly compilation one appears to be from November 2017:

https://www.ridetherapid.org/assets/files/m5/02---november-2017-ridership-and-productivity-report.pdf

Ridership appears to be down quite a bit on pretty much all fixed routes, which doesn't really make any sense if you were to believe the Planning Commission and some of the downtown developers. The last page report is pretty interesting. Specialized/contracted services at the bottom get way more riders than the fixed routes do.  GVSU Campus Connector gets twice as many riders than the Silver Line on a daily basis.

Encouraging to see DASH ridership increasing; I think it's the future of downtown commuter transportation.

 

[whitemice]

The agenda for the upcoming MobileGR meeting contains the details of the enhanced RAPID#19 service starting in late summer.

The agreement stipulates that service hours for Route 19 shall be 5:30 A.M. through 
10:00 P.M. daily, Monday through Friday. The increase in operating hours will improve 
service times to 10 minutes during peak hours and 15 minutes during non-peak hours.

http://urbangr.org/rapid19details2018

[jonrapley]

I just hope buissnes educate their staff on the advantage of this. Numerous times I see Spectrum employees waiting for the shuttle as the 19 drives by them.  Would be nice to see the important stops along this route have shelters and seats installed too.

[thebeerqueer]

15 hours ago, jonrapley said:

I just hope buissnes educate their staff on the advantage of this. Numerous times I see Spectrum employees waiting for the shuttle as the 19 drives by them.  Would be nice to see the important stops along this route have shelters and seats installed too.

In the recommendation to the city it states that the entire route will be fare-free from 08/27/2018 - 09/30/2021; #19 is a long route that could really see increases in ridership during this period. It will be interesting to watch. 

[organsnyder]

It wouldn't surprise me if Spectrum is intending to replace many of their shuttles with the #19 (disclaimer: I am a Spectrum employee, but have no inside knowledge on any of this). Spectrum has provided employees with bus passes for a number of years, and now the passes aren't even needed anymore—ID badges can be scanned directly on the new Wave scanners.

[arcturus]

Development along the Silver Line remains slow.  If anyone can translate what exactly Nick Monoyios is saying I'm all eyes.

https://mibiz.com/item/25797-after-4-years,-development-still-slow-along-gr’s-silver-line-bus-route

[GR_Urbanist]

I read that earlier today.

Frankly it is the Rapid admitting what some of us were saying back when the promise for TOD with being floated as a big reason to vote for it. That it was an irresponsible promise, and that nothing along S. Division would be made a development hotspot because a new bus would be running down the same route that an already existing  bus already services.

The only thing built along the route that came after the Silverline that I know of was a Popeye's.

 

This part is really face-palmy:

Quote

Schulz believes the slow growth in development along the Silver Line route is actually a blessing in disguise because current policy priorities around development without displacement, affordable housing and community equity weren’t being discussed at the time it launched.

So in short, they want people to build high-class developments (or at least not cheaply made), aimed at people with little to no money to pay for the rent, or in hopes that property values wont increase one cent, nor will anyone other than really poor people will want to live there if it ever actually improved?

She is happy that developers currently see no real value along S. Division, despite the promises that the SL would reel them in. Developers will likely now REALLY see no value along S. Division because developments must cater to a set of standards that will make it impossible to make back the money they put forward without tax subsidies!

 

And all of these is still predicated on that there will all be people living there to ride the SL, or that yet another goofy time-waiting initiative (Corridor Improvement Authority ) will do anything other than provide some busywork for some mid-level city hall workers to produce a report full of ignorable recommendations.

This stuff isn't rocket science, City Hall. 

I will say it again. If the SL was this:

You would have had a far better reception in terms of corridor development. For whatever the reason, these make TOD far more likely than a regular bus route with a fancy moniker.

Edited May 15, 2018 by GR_Urbanist