Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[whitemice]

On 11/12/2018 at 9:27 AM, Raildude's dad said:

What makes these folks think this will work here when Ann Arbor can't get the WALLY

Because we are not Ann Arbor / Detroit; they've got issues unique to them.   The operational funding body of the WALLY would be the RTA, which twice has failed to be ratified, see "Racism".  Over there the strong proponents are the large cities, while many of the suburban communities are opposed,  see "Racism".  It's a nasty mess.

West Michigan is not East Michigan.

West Michigan communities have a long history of working together on stuff.  For the WMX the stronger proponents are the suburbs not the cities [I mean, seriously, one doesn't expect all that much from Grand Rapids either way].

The dynamics between here and there could not be more different.

P.S. The inter-city rail service in Michigan is doing very well. (the decline in the Blue Water is a statistical blip as ridership was insane last year due to work on the Wolverine route, passengers temporarily flipped from the Wolverine to the Blue Water).

Edited November 19, 2018 by whitemice

[x99]

On 11/19/2018 at 6:01 AM, whitemice said:

Because we are not Ann Arbor / Detroit; they've got issues unique to them.   The operational funding body of the WALLY would be the RTA, which twice has failed to be ratified, see "Racism".  Over there the strong proponents are the large cities, while many of the suburban communities are opposed,  see "Racism".  It's a nasty mess.

One of those guys, eh? Randomly blame stuff on the big "R" with not even a whiff of data?  There are a lot of reasons other than "racism" that people living in the suburbs don't want to pay for a bunch of trains and buses.  See "won't-use-it-don't-want-it-hate-taxes".  

[demhem]

I 

42 minutes ago, x99 said:

One of those guys, eh? Randomly blame stuff on the big "R" with not even a whiff of data?  There are a lot of reasons other than "racism" that people living in the suburbs don't want to pay for a bunch of trains and buses.  See "won't-use-it-don't-want-it-hate-taxes".  

I don't think that you need data to prove that Detroit has historically had a race problem which has led to poor urban and metro policy (even though plenty of evidence exists in formal and informal research). The narrative exists and still contributes to what goes on over there. 

[Raildude's dad]

Quote

On 11/12/2018 at 9:27 AM, Raildude's dad said:

What makes these folks think this will work here when Ann Arbor can't get the WALLY

Because we are not Ann Arbor / Detroit; they've got issues unique to them.   The operational funding body of the WALLY would be the RTA, which twice has failed to be ratified, see "Racism".  Over there the strong proponents are the large cities, while many of the suburban communities are opposed,  see "Racism".  It's a nasty mess.

West Michigan is not East Michigan.

West Michigan communities have a long history of working together on stuff.  For the WMX the stronger proponents are the suburbs not the cities [I mean, seriously, one doesn't expect all that much from Grand Rapids either way].

The dynamics between here and there could not be more different.

The North South Corridor Service (formerly the wally) is not part of the RTA.  I was a passenger excursion conductor on the TSBY  (now GLC) . When this idea first came up, they could have run trains with the MDOT cars and some leased locomotives to test the service demand. Temporary platform stations and on demand buses for the ADA. Nope some high priced consultant said, you need 60 mph, full gates at every crossing. ADA compliant stations for 27 miles and up went the cost. Besides the cost  the issue was how the service would be managed and paid for.

The US 23 corridor is perfect for a trial service. Old highway in dire need of upgrades, lots of peak time congestion and accidents, a heavily populated corridor with a huge regional employer and destination on the south end (U of M). Try it, if the demand is there, then upgrade the service.  All 3 items are missing  from the Holland / Hudsonville / GR corridor.

[whitemice]

On 11/20/2018 at 1:55 PM, x99 said:

One of those guys, eh? Randomly blame stuff on the big "R" with not even a whiff of data?

Data other than sitting in the room and listening to it?  No, I don't need to bother..

[HavingAhoot]

Anyone hear anymore about if scooter rentals coming to GR?  How do you guys feel about these? I see pros and cons; I love to see the entrepreneurship creating more transit options and being part of a solution. But I wonder how these work in winter months and if they would become too messy on the sidewalks. I've used them in other cities before and found them convenient but some cities like Boston and New York have restricted them. 

https://fox17online.com/2018/10/05/mobile-scooters-could-soon-be-coming-to-grand-rapids/

[Pattmost20]

33 minutes ago, HavingAhoot said:

Anyone hear anymore about if scooter rentals coming to GR?  How do you guys feel about these? I see pros and cons; I love to see the entrepreneurship creating more transit options and being part of a solution. But I wonder how these work in winter months and if they would become too messy on the sidewalks. I've used them in other cities before and found them convenient but some cities like Boston and New York have restricted them. 

https://fox17online.com/2018/10/05/mobile-scooters-could-soon-be-coming-to-grand-rapids/

Sounds like the city has been involved in talks with the companies, which is more than can be said for most cities where these scooters are. I suppose if the city gives their input on implementation, it could work out well.

[thebeerqueer]

45 minutes ago, HavingAhoot said:

Anyone hear anymore about if scooter rentals coming to GR?  How do you guys feel about these? I see pros and cons; I love to see the entrepreneurship creating more transit options and being part of a solution. But I wonder how these work in winter months and if they would become too messy on the sidewalks. I've used them in other cities before and found them convenient but some cities like Boston and New York have restricted them. 

https://fox17online.com/2018/10/05/mobile-scooters-could-soon-be-coming-to-grand-rapids/

Having just been in East Lansing twice in the last month where they're everywhere, I find them to be a bit of a nuisance. They litter the sidewalks and are not regulated at all. That being said, I haven't used one myself but can see the appeal of them. The enforcement of the laws of where they should be used (street vs sidewalk) will be a nightmare. 

[whitemice]

On 4/25/2006 at 10:02 PM, heartsideguy said:

As good as a BRT system may look on paper, I just don't see many in this community using it. Lets face it, Michigan is an automotive based society

The ridership of the SilverLine is steadily growing (October ridership was 86,343), DASH ridership is strong, the new RAPID#19 hit 1,100 riders a day almost immediately.

People will ride, all you need to do is provide a quality service.

[jonrapley]

53 minutes ago, whitemice said:

RAPID#19 hit 1,100 riders a day almost immediately

Spectrum employees are pretty much forced to ride the #19 from the plymouth lot to thier downtown campus, so those numbers are expected. As someone who lives along the Michigan corridor the changes to the #19 has made my life a lot easier.  

[whitemice]

20 minutes ago, jonrapley said:

Spectrum employees are pretty much forced to ride the #19 from the plymouth lot to thier downtown campus, so those numbers are expected.

I agree; there were however numerous voices predicting failure, so success is still worth pointing out.

Also existence, and success, of the route does make the argument for extending to weekend service easier to make.  Although the Laker Line will provide some overlap.

One of the chief requests during the ALIGN commission meetings was to bringing the Laler Line down Michigan St to Plymouth.   A BRT stop at Diamond Place would be sweet.

[jonrapley]

1 minute ago, whitemice said:

A BRT stop at Diamond Place would be sweet

Considering I use that stop daily I would love that idea!

I think the perk the Laker Line has is that SH employees coming from the westside can park their car at a lot close to a stop and take the bus in. It is better than having them drive past thier place of work to park at the Plymouth lot. You will be surprised how often I hear that complaint. 

[GRDadof3]

3 hours ago, whitemice said:

The ridership of the SilverLine is steadily growing (October ridership was 86,343), DASH ridership is strong, the new RAPID#19 hit 1,100 riders a day almost immediately.

People will ride, all you need to do is provide a quality service.

Obviously that's not 86,343 people. That must be 86,343 trips? 

1 hour ago, whitemice said:

I agree; there were however numerous voices predicting failure, so success is still worth pointing out.

Also existence, and success, of the route does make the argument for extending to weekend service easier to make.  Although the Laker Line will provide some overlap.

One of the chief requests during the ALIGN commission meetings was to bringing the Laler Line down Michigan St to Plymouth.   A BRT stop at Diamond Place would be sweet.

The two BRT lines are already too long if you ask me. It kind of defeats the purpose for those who are using it to commute into downtown if it's as slow or slower than driving and finding parking. 

Isn't the #19 line free for most riders? 

[jonrapley]

17 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Isn't the #19 line free for most riders? 

Free for all riders. 

[jonrapley]

Looks like there is a survey going around with regards to the Chicago Drive bus/rail service. 

 

https://hope.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_cuukAXzJRFeB0P3

[arcturus]

Amtrak ridership between GR - Chicago trending slightly higher.  Put a station in Grandville and improve the lousy schedule and maybe more would take it.

https://mdotjboss.state.mi.us/RailStats/mrhReport.htm?corridor=Grand Rapids-Chicago&reportType=PDF

 

[whitemice]

On 12/28/2018 at 12:36 PM, jonrapley said:

Looks like there is a survey going around with regards to the Chicago Drive bus/rail service. 

Yes, surveying local institutions is part of the WMX (West Michigan Express) evaluation.

On 12/29/2018 at 11:02 AM, arcturus said:

improve the lousy schedule and maybe more would take it

I doubt it; the schedule is not lousy, hence the steady and growing ridership.   The train arrives in Chicago ~9:00am which is an excellent arrival time, allowing the train to be used for day and business trips to Chicago.

Grandville would benefit significantly from the WMX project, as well as the l-o-n-g ongoing project to connect the Amtrak and CSX right-of-way at New Buffalo (which would significantly decrease both travel time and cost).  Reducing trip time increases the opportunity for intermediary stops.  On other hand Grandville would need to prepare for that in its Master Plan, like Hudsonville has, but I doubt that has happened.

Aside, Michigan has the strongest growth of inter-city ridership of any region in the network.  Additional growth will be very slow from here on out as these services are effectively at capacity - so out trains are becoming too frequent an event.

Edited December 31, 2018 by whitemice

[whitemice]

On 12/28/2018 at 10:27 AM, jonrapley said:

I think the perk the Laker Line has is that SH employees coming from the westside can park their car at a lot close to a stop and take the bus in. It is better than having them drive past thier place of work to park at the Plymouth lot. You will be surprised how often I hear that complaint. 

Yep.  Although they could use the DASH lots on the West Side currently + RAPID#19, it is only a couple of blocks.  That may in influenced by how Spectrum manages/funds parking, something likely to change in the future.

Some people will not change no matter what anyone does... #shrug  The surveys show (1) the north-west side does not actually feed that many commuters into the city, and (2) the majority of people are open to adjusting their commuting patterns.

[x99]

2 hours ago, whitemice said:

Yep.  Although they could use the DASH lots on the West Side currently + RAPID#19, it is only a couple of blocks.  That may in influenced by how Spectrum manages/funds parking, something likely to change in the future.

Some people will not change no matter what anyone does... #shrug  The surveys show (1) the north-west side does not actually feed that many commuters into the city, and (2) the majority of people are open to adjusting their commuting patterns.

Question:  Where is this from?  Who did the survey?   Who is this polling?  How was the sample set selected?  I ask because if this is intended to show something akin to "downtown office commuters" there is a fairly clear sampling error, based on empirical observations.  That error is that "34% of respondents use a mode other than driving alone at least once a week."  The aggregate data for all downtown commuters don't support that.  Moreover, if you look in my parking ramp or any other parking ramp, you will see precisely the same cars there every day of every week.   There is no way that any significant group of office workers other than bicycle enthusiasts randomly decide to take the bus, walk, or bike nearly two days per week, and then take a single-occupancy vehicle for the rest of it.  

Edited December 31, 2018 by x99

[Chester Cheeto]

I can't remember seeing this posted anywhere, so here is the rendering for the Laker Line operations center going up on Freeman Ave.

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, x99 said:

Question:  Where is this from?  Who did the survey?   Who is this polling?  How was the sample set selected?  I ask because if this is intended to show something akin to "downtown office commuters" there is a fairly clear sampling error, based on empirical observations.  That error is that "34% of respondents use a mode other than driving alone at least once a week."  The aggregate data for all downtown commuters don't support that.  Moreover, if you look in my parking ramp or any other parking ramp, you will see precisely the same cars there every day of every week.   There is no way that any significant group of office workers other than bicycle enthusiasts randomly decide to take the bus, walk, or bike nearly two days per week, and then take a single-occupancy vehicle for the rest of it.  

I was going to ask the same thing. 

49 minutes ago, mielsonwheels said:

I can't remember seeing this posted anywhere, so here is the rendering for the Laker Line operations center going up on Freeman Ave.

The Laker Line is getting its own Ops Center? 

[whitemice]

3 hours ago, x99 said:

Where is this from?

The survey was performed [funded] by the MobileGR commision.

3 hours ago, x99 said:

here is a fairly clear sampling error, based on empirical observations

I don't see it.  This meshes pretty well with mode-share data from the 2010 census.

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

That error is that "34% of respondents use a mode other than driving alone at least once a week

You have data to the contrary?

3 hours ago, x99 said:

Moreover, if you look in my parking ramp or any other parking ramp,

That's not data.

3 hours ago, x99 said:

There is no way that any significant group of office workers

Or, perhaps, you just don't see those people.

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

The Laker Line is getting its own Ops Center? 

It is really just an ops expansion.  Newer articulated buses require expanded maintenance facilities, etc...  Fleet maintenance, storage, cleaning, and fueling is something most people don't think about.

Edited December 31, 2018 by whitemice

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, whitemice said:

The survey was performed [funded] by the MobileGR commision.

I don't see it.  This meshes pretty well with mode-share data from the 2010 census.

You have data to the contrary?

That's not data.

Or, perhaps, you just don't see those people.

It is really just an ops expansion.  Newer articulated buses require expanded maintenance facilities, etc...  Fleet maintenance, storage, cleaning, and fueling is something most people don't think about.

Which study is this? The GRForward one from 2015?  Because I don't see any of this data in that report. 

[arcturus]

131 could use this - https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/thermal-camera-system-helps-stop-wrong-way-driver-in-phoenix

[x99]

On 1/8/2019 at 7:33 PM, arcturus said:

131 could use this - https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/thermal-camera-system-helps-stop-wrong-way-driver-in-phoenix

But how well can it pick up an EV which has a far lower heat signature?  I'm assuming they thought of that?