Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[x99]

2 hours ago, MJLO said:

Does part of the logic on the cities part for NOT increasing supply have to do with the concern that we will have a core of nothing but parking garages at street level in 20 years?   I know you don't intend to come off as everyone is an idiot and we should just let you be the standard maker.  Can you please present the other side of the argument to your ironclad opinions?  It's hard for someone like me who does not have that knowledge base to see the full picture.   There has to be logical counter arguments to your emphatic ones.

I think the counterargument is exactly what you said:  We want to have a multi-faceted city full of people and buildings and not a city full of cars because the cars take too much room and are too expensive to accommodate, so gosh won't everyone just please ride the bus.  And you know what?  That is a nice vision.  The problem with that vision is that cars exist.  I am not aware of a single city of Grand Rapids' size that has ever pulled that "car free" vision off.  At least so far as retailing is concerned, every study I have ever seen indicates that you need substantial retail activity to be able to charge for parking in a ramp and still have people show up.  There are quite a few studies on this.

Grand Rapids does not have what the studies say it takes to support retail, but it behaves as if it does.  At least so far as retail and parking is concerned, GR does exactly the opposite of what most retailing studies say you ought to do. This is why I am strongly of the opinion that Grand Rapids either thinks that 1) it is so special and so unique that it can break all the rules and still have a vibrant city with retail, or 2) that an office park with some restaurants is just perfectly fine.  Option 1 I think is hubris and fantasy.  Like I said.  We have cars, and we'll just drive somewhere else.  Option 2 I think is just sad and a recipe for long-term failure, if not from a fiscal perspective from a social perspective. 

Fixes?  The slim thread of hope might be if they build that movie theater and put in just a massive, massive amount of parking, allow few if any monthly passes in the ramp except those absolutely necessary to free up space in other ramps (so that the office market can come out of the stasis it is stuck in due to no passes), and then dish out the huge amount of parking left in the ramp like candy to retailers, all for free.  And then make everything outside of the Arena district FREE after 5PM.  Yes, this requires subsidizing something which is regarded as evil, but it at least gives downtown retail a shot.  We subsidize buses to the tune of about five bucks a ride, so why not parking?  

The problem we have is certainly solvable.  I'm just not sure the rose colored glasses will ever come off with the current crop of city leadership.  They just need to remember that a low supply of parking means a low supply of people.  No more parking, no more people.  Unless, of course, Grand Rapids has figured out a formula no other city of its size and climate has ever figured out...

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by x99

[joeDowntown]

Article about availability of parking (and a new app to track it:

"Mobile app shows 1,302 city parking spots available downtown right now"

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2016/08/1135_city_parking_spots_availa.html#incart_river_home

Joe

[x99]

The bike sharing study is back again... http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2016/11/city_spending_100k_for_bike_sh.html

Burning up a hundred grand to see if bike sharing is "feasible".  It would be a whole lot cheaper to run down the Walmart, buy 250 bikes, tag them with GPS trackers, put them all over town, then pay some guy in a van to move them around.  Then you could probably see if it works... Or you could just buy the leftovers for cheap from the already-failed bike share that someone tried two years ago and which seems to have disappeared this last year.  Then see if it magically works once the government tries to run it...

Edited November 11, 2016 by x99

[Pattmost20]

1 hour ago, x99 said:

The bike sharing study is back again... http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2016/11/city_spending_100k_for_bike_sh.html

Burning up a hundred grand to see if bike sharing is "feasible".  It would be a whole lot cheaper to run down the Walmart, buy 250 bikes, tag them with GPS trackers, put them all over town, then pay some guy in a van to move them around.  Then you could probably see if it works... Or you could just buy the leftovers for cheap from the already-failed bike share that someone tried two years ago and which seems to have disappeared this last year.  Then see if it magically works once the government tries to run it...

The Spoke Fly program didn't fail, it was just the first round of feasibility study. The app used to rent the bikes was horrid, it was buggy and glitchy. The Spoke Folks (who ran the program) said the demand was actually high and they got a lot of use. They rented the bikes to Kent district libraries, where you rent out a bike with your library card. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Pattmost20

[x99]

On 11/11/2016 at 0:42 PM, Pattmost20 said:

The Spoke Fly program didn't fail, it was just the first round of feasibility study. The app used to rent the bikes was horrid, it was buggy and glitchy. The Spoke Folks (who ran the program) said the demand was actually high and they got a lot of use. They rented the bikes to Kent district libraries, where you rent out a bike with your library card. 

If something is making money, it doesn't disappear.  I saw those bikes all over the place before, but they were MIA this year.  Color me skeptical, but spending $100,000 on a STUDY for THE SAME THING in light of that seems crazy.

[Pattmost20]

Just now, x99 said:

If something is making money, it doesn't disappear.  I saw those bikes all over the place before, but they were MIA this year.  Color me skeptical, but spending $100,000 on a STUDY for THE SAME THING in light of that seems crazy.

They didn't go MIA, they went to the library. There is a very good chance they are making more money renting the bikes to the library than they were renting them out with the app, but that doesn't mean that they weren't making any money.

There is a huge difference between renting out normal bikes via a smart phone app, and a full bike share program like they have in Ann Arbor or Chicago. The Spoke Folks ran a summer of testing using cheap bikes and a free app, now that the city is considering actual infrastructure, it makes sense to take the time and money to get it right. Instead of just throwing up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stations all over the city, they should map it out and see where it works best. Does $100,000 seem like a ton of money for a study, sure, but it is a drop in the bucket as far as infrastructure spending goes.

As a side note, Spoke Folks are a non-profit, what good would it do to lie about the success of a program when their financials are public record? 

[walker]

No more Megabus:

megabus-ending-service-in-grand-rapids

[arcturus]

Maybe Amtrak will actually gain ridership this year.

[x99]

16 hours ago, arcturus said:

Maybe Amtrak will actually gain ridership this year.

Maybe, but I think most people will just drive instead.  Did the schedule change ever increase the train ridership?  I personally quit riding it entirely when they did that since its too early, but I'm sure it's great for some people.  

[Pattmost20]

16 hours ago, arcturus said:

Maybe Amtrak will actually gain ridership this year.

Unfortunately, most likely not. Mega Bus offered 2 advantages over driving, cost and not having to deal with parking. Amtrak is more expensive, takes longer, only offers 1 departure per day compared to Mega Bus, who had 3, and is rarely on time. Most people aren't willing to pay that much of a premium just to not deal with parking. Realistically the only way it makes financial sense is if you are staying downtown in a nice hotel, and didn't want to pay for valet parking.

[HomePortSupplyCo]

I've taken Amtrak into Chicago from Holland once.  Then I discovered the South Shore line from Michigan City and will never take it again.  Saves us on parking in the city and offers many more departure times.

[arcturus]

39 minutes ago, Onekama said:

I've taken Amtrak into Chicago from Holland once.  Then I discovered the South Shore line from Michigan City and will never take it again.  Saves us on parking in the city and offers many more departure times.

If you don't mind that little inconvenience known as a 2 hr 10 min drive each way from GR just to get the train. 

[Pattmost20]

11 hours ago, arcturus said:

If you don't mind that little inconvenience known as a 2 hr 10 min drive each way from GR just to get the train. 

Well he did say Holland, so 1 hour and 25 minutes each way for a $20 per person savings each way, and you still get the convenience of not having to park in Chicago. 

 

Edited January 14, 2017 by Pattmost20

[arcturus]

17 hours ago, Pattmost20 said:

Well he did say Holland, so 1 hour and 25 minutes each way for a $20 per person savings each way, and you still get the convenience of not having to park in Chicago. 

 

Good for Holland but it was more directed to the majority living in the GR area.  Besides, avoiding parking was a Megabus benefit too.

28 minutes ago, temporary.name said:

Plus you can hit up the casino in MI City. 

After having used the South Shore to get into Chicago, I don't think I'll ever use another way again. Getting dropped off right at Millennium Park and walking, ubering, bus, rent-a-biking, looping, or cabbing to where you need to go is perfect. 

Brought my bike on board now that they support weekend cyclists.  Millenium Park  > Lagunitas > Goose Island > Revolution > Half Acre made for a great beer & bike day. 

[walker]

On 2/7/2014 at 8:02 AM, John E said:

“Research specifically points to an increase in economic activity with this kind of new transportation option and we have already seen the beginnings of strong positive impact. Developers have started purchasing properties along this route and more have informed us of their interest and are watching various properties closely. Interestingly, many developers we have spoken with from all over the world concerning the Site 36 property have been very intrigued that the Silver Line is so close.”

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/01/the_most_important_decision_fo.html

I know a lot of us here, including me, have been cynical about the idea that the Silverline will encourage new business development along Division.  But just today I noticed this new business cashing in on the Silverline name at 60th and Division right across the street from the route terminus:

SILVERLINE MOTORS

IT’S WORKING!!

OK, it’s a slow news day here on UrbanPlanet when the other big topic is bitcoin blockchains.  I wonder where John E is these days.

[x99]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 4:24 PM, walker said:

SILVERLINE MOTORS

There's a delicious irony in the economic activity spurred by BRT being the rebranding of a used car lot.   "Stuck on the bus?  We got CARS!!" 

[WMrapids]

[thebeerqueer]

9 hours ago, WMrapids said:

[arcturus]

On 1/12/2017 at 6:07 PM, arcturus said:

Maybe Amtrak will actually gain ridership this year.

Assuming June's numbers match last year's it's looking like a 5% increase from Jan - June.

https://mdotjboss.state.mi.us/RailStats/mrhReport.htm?corridor=Grand Rapids-Chicago&reportType=PDF

[GRDadof3]

Rode the Qline in Detroit this weekend, their new light rail from downtown out to New Center. Have mixed feelings about these streetcars now...  I'll post pics/videos later.   Not very heavily ridden. 

The People Mover however was packed and very handy while staying downtown D though. 

[thebeerqueer]

3 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Rode the Qline in Detroit this weekend, their new light rail from downtown out to New Center. Have mixed feelings about these streetcars now...  I'll post pics/videos later.   Not very heavily ridden. 

The People Mover however was packed and very handy while staying downtown D though. 

Looking forward to the pics/videos. Some friends from Ferndale rode it a couple of weeks ago and it broke down but said it's pretty popular during the week. 

[GRDadof3]

4 hours ago, thebeerqueer said:

Looking forward to the pics/videos. Some friends from Ferndale rode it a couple of weeks ago and it broke down but said it's pretty popular during the week. 

One thing I did like is that once you got close to Campus Martius, the overhead wires were gone except for right at the stations. They must get a boost of power into a battery system to make it through that area and back out to the overhead wire areas? But even out by the new Little Caesars - Red Wings stadium, the overhead wires are pretty thin and the poles are pretty attractive, they don't clutter up the scene too much. It's also interesting that every station has a "sponsor." The automated announcer even says "Next stop is xyz station featuring Comerica Park, brought to you by Chevrolet." I guess that's one way to pay for the system.

With overhead wires at Mack Ave station in Midtown. The new Whole Foods is off to the right in this picture. 

 

Without overhead wires at Campus Martius/Compuware:

 

 

One thing for sure is that Woodward Avenue looks a lot different than when I walked it 5 or so years ago. A lot of new international retailers like Nike, UnderArmour etc and even Shinola hotel is going in. Not to mention Little Caesars Arena and "The District" which appears in my video. Need wifi to upload.

With all of the new development in Monroe North now, including the new hotel, restoring the rapids and the riverfront apartments, plus 201 Market and 234 Market, Venue Tower and 20 Monroe Live, Founders at the South end, etc etc etc, is it time to start work on a Monroe Streetcar line again? It certainly does extend the "walking distance" of downtown. I saw several people on the qline who obviously lived in Midtown and worked downtown. 

 

[GRDadof3]

Test

 

 

[GVSUChris]

13 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Test

 

 

?

[GRDadof3]

1 minute ago, GVSUChris said:

?

I was trying to load the videos on here but that doesn't seem to work very well.  Have to see if I can dig up my old youtube account password.