Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[GRDadof3]

29 minutes ago, Pattmost20 said:

I agree with you that I think GR could support an Urban Target. At the same time, there are other factors contributing to East Lansing being able to support one. West Lafayette, home of my alma mater Purdue University, is getting one. There are about 35k people in town. Both MSU and Purdue make it basically impossible for Freshmen to have a car and make it very inconvenient for all other students. You have a built in audience of walkers, bikers, and bus riders that can't easily run out to malls or other suburban shopping centers. 

I think developers are bigger risk takers in Lansing too. In fact, the Target development is a Chicago developer. People here thought Franklin Partners office building at Studio Park was too "big city."

That's a symptom of a bigger issue: way too conservative here still. 

 

[GR8scott]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

I think developers are bigger risk takers in Lansing too. In fact, the Target development is a Chicago developer. People here thought Franklin Partners office building at Studio Park was too "big city."

That's a symptom of a bigger issue: way too conservative here still. 

 

Big 10 college towns get the national attention that GR simply doesn’t....GVSU May be large in size but relatively unknown outside of Michigan 

[Guest]

MSU also has about 55,000 students around one central campus.  GVSU has half as many students and many (at least freshmen and sophomores) live in and around Allendale.

I wish GVSU would build more DT housing.  I went to GVSU for a couple of years and by my sophomore year almost all of my classes were DT.

I feel like GVSU is more of a commuter school than anything Big Ten.

[joeDowntown]

13 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I think developers are bigger risk takers in Lansing too. In fact, the Target development is a Chicago developer. People here thought Franklin Partners office building at Studio Park was too "big city."

That's a symptom of a bigger issue: way too conservative here still. 

 

I have to disagree on this one. Developers follow the money. I don’t think an urban Target does / doesn’t get built because of perceived conservatism. 

I think the demographics of a large university with limited access to vehicles may be a bigger factor. You literally have a captive audience.

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but with the influx of people, does everyone still think we should perceived as this conservative, bland rapids, don’t mow your lawn on Sunday’s city? I might live in a bubble, but I don’t get that vibe from friends, coworkers, etc. 

Truly curious if I’m living in a bubble and don’t see it. Opinions?

Joe

[MJLO]

26 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

I have to disagree on this one. Developers follow the money. I don’t think an urban Target does / doesn’t get built because of perceived conservatism. 

I think the demographics of a large university with limited access to vehicles may be a bigger factor. You literally have a captive audience.

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but with the influx of people, does everyone still think we should perceived as this conservative, bland rapids, don’t mow your lawn on Sunday’s city? I might live in a bubble, but I don’t get that vibe from friends, coworkers, etc. 

Truly curious if I’m living in a bubble and don’t see it. Opinions?

Joe

No, this isn't the Grand Rapids people grew up in.  Not saying it's a liberal urban paradise, but it's not the sleepy conservative hamlet people were raised to think.  Just look at population trends/voting trends and you can see the difference.  Not to mention the dramatic shift in built environment over the last 20 years.  You can still find that stereotype but it's largely limited to the western suburbs/Ottawa County.   There will always be people who think they need homogeneity of thought, or ideological purity around them to be happy.   They are usually the first ones to throw out the old stereotypes during conversations.  

In terms of the post you were quoting I think it was more referring to the big companies in the area.   Under that scenario I do think  Grand Rapids is missing a big progressive corporation that invests in the community.  All the big companies in town have their feet firmly planted in their suburban ivory towers, and have little to no interest in investing in the physical and social infrastructure of downtown.    It's my belief that the city will not move into the the next echelon  without that component.  If Grand Rapids could attract a corporate relo downtown it would be that last little component of momentum that has felt just out of reach for the last 10 years.

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

I have to disagree on this one. Developers follow the money. I don’t think an urban Target does / doesn’t get built because of perceived conservatism. 

I think the demographics of a large university with limited access to vehicles may be a bigger factor. You literally have a captive audience.

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but with the influx of people, does everyone still think we should perceived as this conservative, bland rapids, don’t mow your lawn on Sunday’s city? I might live in a bubble, but I don’t get that vibe from friends, coworkers, etc. 

Truly curious if I’m living in a bubble and don’t see it. Opinions?

Joe

I'm not talking mow-your-lawn-on-sundays conservative, although I'll say that the Western suburbs which is predominantly where I work lately, it's worse now conservatively than I ever remember. Shoot, teachers in a Hudsonville elementary school were busted for teaching bible classes AT school.   Allendale is getting even worse (not the students on campus, the people who live out there). Plus the number of parents pulling their kids out of public schools (Forest Hills even) and sending them to Northpoint Christian, GR Christian, etc.. is exploding in the last few years I've noticed. When we go to our kids sporting events, our kids mention that probably half the kids on the other team (GR Christian, Northpoint, Catholic Central) used to go to Forest Hills. 

While the city continues to get more liberal, I think the burbs are getting more conservative (and drawing conservatives to the area). 

But I was talking fiscally over-conservative. We also have one of the lowest average wage rates in the country, which I think goes hand-in-hand with that. 

This is WAY off the topic of transit. 

 

[HavingAhoot]

I moved here 15 years ago and was told about the city's conservative ways and would have to say I think its way over emphasized that grand rapids is very conservative; and over the years I've been here its progressively  got less  conservative to the point I don't ever really notice unless Trump is in town. That said I work in West Olive/Allendale area and GOOD LORD its noticeable  in every way. (All hail Rush Limbaugh-All hail Rush Limbaugh)

Anyway they are going to town on this Blue Line #50 stations! 

[JoeSchmo]

2 minutes ago, HavingAhoot said:

Anyway they are going to town on this Blue Line #50 stations! 

I dont think anyone from Allendale or Standale will ride this ..except for college students and professors.  Maybe I am wrong?  But a loot of college students will continue to ride it.

Aside from that, I always felt MSU has a good job promoting density on their campus.  It helps the Freshmen don't drive.  GVSU has never really done a good job at promoting density and probably does have more commuters than MSU.  But as GVSU grows..this could change.

[joeDowntown]

I should probably add that I’m not necessarily talking about conservative from a political standpoint (though they sometimes go hand in hand). I also know a lot of people who have a  very strong faith. So it’s not just a discussion about “a lot of churches”. 

Just wondering if people get that sense of extremely old school values, no mowing the lawn or washing your car on sundays. I feel like people bring that up often, but I just don’t see it often. Seems like the exception, not the rule. 

Joe

[Chester Cheeto]

16 hours ago, Pattmost20 said:

I agree with you that I think GR could support an Urban Target. At the same time, there are other factors contributing to East Lansing being able to support one. West Lafayette, home of my alma mater Purdue University, is getting one. There are about 35k people in town. Both MSU and Purdue make it basically impossible for Freshmen to have a car and make it very inconvenient for all other students. You have a built in audience of walkers, bikers, and bus riders that can't easily run out to malls or other suburban shopping centers. 

Boiler Up!

Sure would've been nice to have something like this in walking distance of Cary Quad back in the day...

[demhem]

12 hours ago, Floyd_Z said:

MSU also has about 55,000 students around one central campus.  GVSU has half as many students and many (at least freshmen and sophomores) live in and around Allendale.

I wish GVSU would build more DT housing.  I went to GVSU for a couple of years and by my sophomore year almost all of my classes were DT.

I feel like GVSU is more of a commuter school than anything Big Ten.

GVSU has their campuses essentially split up by college. The more professional (engineering, business, nursing, education, health professions, and public affairs) colleges are downtown, while the traditional undergraduate liberal arts and sciences and interdisciplinary studies colleges are in Allendale. Maybe compared to a Big Ten... but GVSU is by no metric a commuter college. There are commuters, but commuting is not dominant in the student body. The one aspect of the university that is noticeable is that everyone is relatively split up between campuses, so there is not a major density of college students in one area like you have at MSU. 

[thebeerqueer]

35 minutes ago, HavingAhoot said:

Anyway they are going to town on this Blue Line #50 stations! 

They sure are. I rode by two of the stations under construction on Fulton St. I'm super interested to see how this line will add to people to the street and business on Fulton. 

[demhem]

2 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I have to disagree on this one. Developers follow the money. I don’t think an urban Target does / doesn’t get built because of perceived conservatism. 

I think the demographics of a large university with limited access to vehicles may be a bigger factor. You literally have a captive audience.

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but with the influx of people, does everyone still think we should perceived as this conservative, bland rapids, don’t mow your lawn on Sunday’s city? I might live in a bubble, but I don’t get that vibe from friends, coworkers, etc. 

Truly curious if I’m living in a bubble and don’t see it. Opinions?

Joe

I'm not from GR and I don't see it. I've never really felt that GR or the surrounding area lived up to the stereotypes that I was told when I moved here for college 11 years ago. City-proper GR is definitely not conservative (at least while I've lived here), and the suburbs are no more conservative than the suburb of Detroit that I grew up in (again, since I've been here). 

[GRDadof3]

58 minutes ago, HavingAhoot said:

I moved here 15 years ago and was told about the city's conservative ways and would have to say I think its way over emphasized that grand rapids is very conservative; and over the years I've been here its progressively  got less  conservative to the point I don't ever really notice unless Trump is in town. That said I work in West Olive/Allendale area and GOOD LORD its noticeable  in every way. (All hail Rush Limbaugh-All hail Rush Limbaugh)

Anyway they are going to town on this Blue Line #50 stations! 

Haha, exactly. Allendale and Hudsonville are definitely unique places. But at least the Trump and Confederate flags that they fly on the back of their pickups are in really good shape (they don't let them get tattered). 

And yes the ones on West Fulton are really going to town. 

[Pattmost20]

5 hours ago, mielsonwheels said:

Boiler Up!

Sure would've been nice to have something like this in walking distance of Cary Quad back in the day...

Boiler Up right back at ya!

I was a Hill Top resident myself and that definitely would of been nice. When I hear about all of the building and development in West Lafayette and it is shocking compared to what we had when I was on campus (2006-2010).

[Guest]

Metro GR has changed a lot.  It kind of used to be it's own little bubble.  Now people are moving here from all over, or growing up here moving to Chicago and then moving back. The City of GR and the inner burbs are pretty liberal.... and then yes, there's Hudsonville, Jamestown, Grandville, and Allendale.  That's definitely the bible belt of metro GR.  And yes, VERY conservative.  I heard a story on the national news on NPR about how parents are demanding that Allendale schools not talk about LBGTQ+ issues

 

Quote

The VanderHelms say they believe that being gay or trans is a sin — a sin that a person can resist. Steve compares being homosexual to "lying, overeating, lust." He says it's "no different than me in my younger days looking at pornography."

 

Full article:  https://www.npr.org/2019/04/01/706944327/when-the-conversation-doesnt-include-you-lgbtq-sex-ed-in-a-small-town

[thebeerqueer]

13 hours ago, Floyd_Z said:

Metro GR has changed a lot.  It kind of used to be it's own little bubble.  Now people are moving here from all over, or growing up here moving to Chicago and then moving back. The City of GR and the inner burbs are pretty liberal.... and then yes, there's Hudsonville, Jamestown, Grandville, and Allendale.  That's definitely the bible belt of metro GR.  And yes, VERY conservative.  I heard a story on the national news on NPR about how parents are demanding that Allendale schools not talk about LBGTQ+ issues

 

 

Full article:  https://www.npr.org/2019/04/01/706944327/when-the-conversation-doesnt-include-you-lgbtq-sex-ed-in-a-small-town

I knew Allendale wasn't a place for me and my friends but wow, I didn't realize how aggressively they're targeting LGBTQ+ students in their school system.

 

Getting back on topic, hopefully the Laker Line can provide some transportation into GR and relief for these kids. 

[JoeSchmo]

Are they keeping Bus Route 12 the same.  Or is the plan for this route to still directly overlay Bus Route 50?

Edited April 24, 2019 by JoeSchmo

[VectorPrime]

43 minutes ago, JoeSchmo said:

Are they keeping Bus Route 12 the same.  Or is the plan for this route to still directly overlay Bus Route 50?

Route 12 will remain unaltered providing local service similar to route 1 on Division and the Silver Line.

[Raildude's dad]

31 minutes ago, VectorPrime said:

Route 12 will remain unaltered providing local service similar to route 1 on Division and the Silver Line.

I didn't get it on Division and don't get on Lake Michigan Drive.  IMHO, the Laker and Silver lines should be the "local" service and the other the  GVSU Express, end to end only, no intermediate stops.  Oh well, just my federal dollars at work

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, Raildude's dad said:

I didn't get it on Division and don't get on Lake Michigan Drive.  IMHO, the Laker and Silver lines should be the "local" service and the other the  GVSU Express, end to end only, no intermediate stops.  Oh well, just my federal dollars at work

Agreed!!

[Allison Slater]

5 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

I didn't get it on Division and don't get on Lake Michigan Drive.  IMHO, the Laker and Silver lines should be the "local" service and the other the  GVSU Express, end to end only, no intermediate stops.  Oh well, just my federal dollars at work

This, but with one stop in Standale on the Express, since every time I've taken it that has been a very major stop.

[GRDadof3]

49 minutes ago, tSlater said:

This, but with one stop in Standale on the Express, since every time I've taken it that has been a very major stop.

Yup, even the CTA in Chicago has "express" service and local service. For people reading at home that don't know what that means, certain subway/L-trains only stop at about every other stop during certain periods of the day. Cuts the trip almost by 50% at least. Same with Metra, which I believe also has express and local stops. 

They accomplish this by designating stations A and B stations, and designating trains A and B trains. Some stops are All Stops.  It's pretty cool and complex. It could be done here. Make less used stations having longer headways. Heavily used stations would have short headways like every 10 minutes.  In fact, it's way easier to do with buses because they can more easily pass each other than L trains. 

http://www.chicago-l.org/operations/lines/route_ops/A-B.html

[Raildude's dad]

I just looked at the Laker Line and Route 12 stops. 1 extra stop on 12.  This is just DUMB like the Silver Line. One of them needs to be Allendale to DT campus, no intermediate stops

 

[GRDadof3]

12 minutes ago, Raildude's dad said:

I just looked at the Laker Line and Route 12 stops. 1 extra stop on 12.  This is just DUMB like the Silver Line. One of them needs to be Allendale to DT campus, no intermediate stops

 

Yep, exactly. I've never understood the duplicate service. Honestly I think it'd be easier to run the 12 as a non-stop commuter service (for students), maybe with one stop in Standale as tslater mentioned. In fact, run it over to Bridge and straight up Michigan and none of the jerking around up Monroe Avenue.