Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[Rizzo]

n/m

edit: But wasn't this a report commissioned by GRATA? So with that talk it would essentially be wink wink by GRATA?

Edited November 22, 2006 by Rizzo

[Raildudes dad]

n/m

edit: But wasn't this a report commissioned by GRATA? So with that talk it would essentially be wink wink by GRATA?

Yes, this report was prepared for GRATA. After re-reading it carefully over the weekend (no - I didn't get an unedited copy done ), it was very apparent it was written to make sure commuter rail wasn't used. I think it was a real shame that it wasn't tried. The cost would have been reasonable with temporary boarding platforms and leased equipment. MDOT would have paid for a lot of it. It would have been a good test of the abiiity for the service to be sucessful in the future. But that's not what GRATA nor the City of GR wanted. Instead, "we" (where does the Federal gov't get their money )get to pay big bucks for a study to recommend a BRT, with no assurance the service will be sucessful if it's built.

At this point I don't think it's in anyones best interest to drag up this report. The RAPID won't be pleased to have their dirty laundry aired publicly. I no longer am affiliated with the organization I critiqued the report for so I wouldn't want them to be negatively affected by a resurrection of the report. The report could be a base to build a report on what it would cost to implement commuter rail locally. They covered all the factors involved, just not with good numbers (or math)

[Rizzo]

With DeVos and his secret organization running downtown GR, this seems very logical for him. I would love to see a light-rail running from 5/3 ballpark, down to eastown, GVSU, VanAndel, ect....and this would increase the value of living downtown. I want to become involved with this some how and get the area looking into other cities. I know Detroit-Ann Arbor are trying to get somthing done, but what cant the West Michigan Strategic Alliance get going first. Holland-GH/Musk-GR is an area that could catch some national attention of they could get a plan for all three areas. I know that is a mighty goal but it sure would be nice to only have to drive a mile or two and get anywhere in west mich.

Anyone has any ideas how I could get involved in some lobbying of this (senior in GVSUs Pub. Admin) I am happy to start.

Just talk about it; bring it up in relevant conversations. See if you can hold a open forum at GVSU. Have a forum session discussing alternative transit, ITPs campus connector, how students are finding the ITP useful etc... Ask school officials if there is an appropriate way to assemble interested students to discuss this in detail. Possibly ask professors who are relevant to the topic of transit to chime in? I guess the point of it is to brainstorm alternatives to generate increased interest in the community.

Edited November 30, 2006 by Rizzo

[GRDadof3]

The little trolley that could, and did - MLUI

A great article about the Portland streetcar system and its success.

some excerpts:

...Thirty years ago, the City of Roses looked more like the cities of the Rust Belt. Underused industrial property and highways obstructed the waterfront along the Willamette River, just as they still do along Cleveland's Lake Erie shoreline. Vacant commercial property plagued the urban core, just as it still does in desolate Gary, Ind. Urban living was a daring choice to some people, just like it is today in Detroit.

Then, Portland

[Rizzo]

^That's pretty amazing on how much development can occur with that infrastructure. I would wonder if any zoning changes occurred in those cities along the rail.

GRAND RAPIDS -- Several groups are coming together Wednesday to encourage people to continue to support public transportation in Grand Rapids.

-- http://woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5775687

Edited December 6, 2006 by Rizzo

[grcitydog]

I noticed that in Wyoming along 28th Street and Clyde Park, ITP replaced the bus stop shelters with new, modern looking ones. Does anyone know if this is just in Wyoming or is there a system-wide overhaul of the shelters. I like them, the old ones were looking kind of dated.

[GRDadof3]

I noticed that in Wyoming along 28th Street and Clyde Park, ITP replaced the bus stop shelters with new, modern looking ones. Does anyone know if this is just in Wyoming or is there a system-wide overhaul of the shelters. I like them, the old ones were looking kind of dated.

System wide. I've noticed them all over the NE side too, and in EGR.

[Allison Slater]

I've seen them installing some along S Division.. furthest south I've seen them so far is around the schools.

[DwntwnGeo]

There was a meeting this afternoon at the RAPID.

"Officials of The RAPID bus service are looking at renewing a millage that was passed in 2003, which funds this system. They are also talking about asking for an additional 0.2 mills - about $2.2 million - to make more changes.

The 0.2 mill increase would cost residents an extra $10 a year if they own a $100,000 house.

The Interurban Transit Partnership Board met to talk about a plan that asks voters for a renewal and increase. More routes would be added to new areas of service, particularly to the northwest side of Grand Rapids. Plus, there would be extra weekend service."

The complete story is on WoodTV8:

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5775687

[DwntwnGeo]

I heard (from the source) that a certain group of very influential people (from Grand Rapids...ie. the ones with money) will be in Portland, Oregon the week after Thanksgiving to look at their "MAX Light Street Rail" system. They are the ones that want to bring back street cars back to Grand Rapids but in the form of fully functional, efficient ones. I understand Portland's MAX was 100% privately funded. It seems like our group is gathering information.

Does anyone know if they this "certain" group visited Portland, Oregon? I hope they did and I wonder how impressed they were of the transit system out there.

[GRDadof3]

Does anyone know if they this "certain" group visited Portland, Oregon? I hope they did and I wonder how impressed they were of the transit system out there.

Yes. I haven't heard anything details yet, but I would expect a report in the near future.

Andy Guy's article that I posted earlier also mentions the visit to Portland.

[Rizzo]

Veiled woman denied bus access --

http://woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5788349

[Allison Slater]

The RAPID actually contacted the media and told them it happened, rather than brushing it under the rug or trying to keep quiet. That's something you don't hear every day. On top of that, they responded quickly and have removed the policy, and the local muslims didn't freak out about it, but were understanding about it. I'd say overall that's pretty good news.

[Rizzo]

Supposedly, there is word that a streetcar is in the pipeline for downtown -- a line something like 2.8 miles in length. Must be they liked Portland. Anyone hear about this?

Edited December 16, 2006 by Rizzo

[Rizzo]

Looks like someone liked our pics dad...

http://disabilityadvocates.us/

Edited December 16, 2006 by Rizzo

[DwntwnGeo]

Supposedly, there is word that a streetcar is in the pipeline for downtown -- a line something like 2.8 miles in length. Must be they liked Portland. Anyone hear about this?

This is GREAT news

[DwntwnGeo]

Now that my mind is thinking about a possible downtown transit systems instead of work this afternoon, what are some ideas for possible routes in downtown? Do you think there will be one consitant loop, or multiple loops that intersect eachother? Like one North/South loop and one East/West loop intersecting at points for transfers. Would they consider going North along Ionia and South along Ottawa since both of these streets are already one-way, it would be easier to block or dedicate a lane for a transit car. Do you think they will cross the River to pick up GVSU and the YMCA? The East/West crossing can be on Fulton, Pearl or Michigan/Bridge Streets. I am curious to hear what routes you guys/girls think are important in the downtown/core areas. I will have to get my downtown maps out and figure out how many places I can get to in under 3 miles.

[GRDadof3]

I was thinking the same thing Dwntwngeo. I really hope they have some public forums regarding where the best route would go. 2.8 miles seems very "specific", as if there is already talk of a particular route.

Looks like someone liked our pics dad...

http://disabilityadvocates.us/

thumbsup.gif

That is about the coolest thing I've ever seen, to see another organization spreading the work we do here.

Nice job Rizzo!

[highwayguy]

Supposedly, there is word that a streetcar is in the pipeline for downtown -- a line something like 2.8 miles in length. Must be they liked Portland. Anyone hear about this?

Based on what I heard about a month ago, the idea was to go north from Central Station following roughly a Grandville/Market/Monroe route, both northbound and southbound. The 2.8 miles would probably be 1.4 in each direction. Again, that was what I heard a month ago, before they went to Portland, so that may no longer be the leading idea.

Personally, I would prefer to see, starting at Central Station, a route that would go east on Cherry, north on Ionia, west on Lyon, and south on Ottawa, back to Central Station. Or, north on Grandville/Market/Monroe, east on Lyon, and south on Ottawa. A "loop" would bring it in front of roughly twice as many businesses, and if you really need to go the other direction it's only a block away.

Either way, I would be thrilled to see something like this happen.

Edited December 17, 2006 by highwayguy

[GRDadof3]

Based on what I heard about a month ago, the idea was to go north from Central Station following roughly a Grandville/Market/Monroe route, both northbound and southbound. The 2.8 miles would probably be 1.4 in each direction. Again, that was what I heard a month ago, before they went to Portland, so that may no longer be the leading idea.

Personally, I would prefer to see, starting at Central Station, a route that would go east on Cherry, north on Ionia, west on Lyon, and south on Ottawa, back to Central Station. Or, north on Grandville/Market/Monroe, east on Lyon, and south on Ottawa. A "loop" would bring it in front of roughly twice as many businesses, and if you really need to go the other direction it's only a block away.

Either way, I would be thrilled to see something like this happen.

It's definitely a start. I can't believe they would just run it up Monroe, and not hit the soon-to-be largest employment area downtown on Michigan Hill. It'd be nice to get the people who work and take classes on the hill down to the center of downtown, or the growing entertainment district around the arena, to increase commerce. It's not an easy hike to Monroe Center from Michigan/Lafayette.

Here are some other loop ideas I had:

The streetcar should come within an easy walk of the various downtown business "nodes", or where there is the most activity.

I wonder why they're being so hush-hush about this? They should involve the public in some info gathering

forums.

Here are a couple of video links of the Tacoma Streetcar line that is part of the Sound Transit system. It's very similar to the streetcar/LRT system in Portland:

Exterior and interior shots

Riding along on the LINK

(the sound is horrible in the videos, and there is on-screen text, so you may want to mute it)

From this site.

[highwayguy]

It's definitely a start. I can't believe they would just run it up Monroe, and not hit the soon-to-be largest employment area downtown on Michigan Hill. It'd be nice to get the people who work and take classes on the hill down to the center of downtown, or the growing entertainment district around the arena, to increase commerce. It's not an easy hike to Monroe Center from Michigan/Lafayette.

Nice maps GRDad! 1.4 miles north from Central Station along the Grandville/Market/Monroe route would bring it up to near the Sixth Street bridge, which would be nice.

I agree that Michigan Street is going to be important in the coming years, but apparently the hill is too steep for the type of system that is being considered. You would probably need a cable car system like those in San Francisco to get anything on steel tracks up or (safely) down that hill, especially in the winter or when it rains. I believe they were also looking at the possibility of adding a second "east/west" route in the future, and I suppose if there's a will there's a way to get a streetcar up the hill.

By the way, I am under the impression that a GR system would probably run on electricity from overhead lines, similar to many of the streetcar systems elsewhere. It would also require some sort of transit signal priority.

Edited December 17, 2006 by highwayguy

[Rizzo]

Nice maps GRDad! 1.4 miles north from Central Station along the Grandville/Market/Monroe route would bring it up to near the Sixth Street bridge, which would be nice.

I agree that Michigan Street is going to be important in the coming years, but apparently the hill is too steep for the type of system that is being considered. You would probably need a cable car system like those in San Francisco to get anything on steel tracks up or (safely) down that hill, especially in the winter or when it rains. I believe they were also looking at the possibility of adding a second "east/west" route in the future, and I suppose if there's a will there's a way to get a streetcar up the hill.

By the way, I am under the impression that a GR system would probably run on electricity from overhead lines, similar to many of the streetcar systems elsewhere. It would also require some sort of transit signal priority.

So you know what's going on? I thought about enlisting the help of UPrs so we'd get the ball rolling on what I heard.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Rizzo

[highwayguy]

So you know what's going on? I thought about enlisting the help of UPrs so we'd get the ball rolling on what I heard.

Unfortunately my knowledge is pretty much limited to what I posted - the initial north-south route and possible future east-west route, and the difficulties with the grade of the Michigan St hill. Also, this info was before the Portland visit, so who knows how that may have changed things.

[Rizzo]

There are other ways of getting up the hill. A train doesn't have to go up Michigan or Lyon and negotiate a large rise over run. The route can start from N. Division onto Library, then up Bostwick to Medical Mile.

[GRDadof3]

Nice maps GRDad! 1.4 miles north from Central Station along the Grandville/Market/Monroe route would bring it up to near the Sixth Street bridge, which would be nice.

I agree that Michigan Street is going to be important in the coming years, but apparently the hill is too steep for the type of system that is being considered. You would probably need a cable car system like those in San Francisco to get anything on steel tracks up or (safely) down that hill, especially in the winter or when it rains. I believe they were also looking at the possibility of adding a second "east/west" route in the future, and I suppose if there's a will there's a way to get a streetcar up the hill.

By the way, I am under the impression that a GR system would probably run on electricity from overhead lines, similar to many of the streetcar systems elsewhere. It would also require some sort of transit signal priority.

Thanks! If that's the case, then maybe phase II could run across Newberry at 6th and loop back down North Division to Cherry. It then would be within an easy walk of Michigan Hill. Imagine all the redevelopment opportunities in just that one circulator loop. I wonder if that's why the rebuilding of Grandville Ave near the RAPID station has sat on the backburner. Why rebuild it twice?