Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[tracer1138]

There was a very nice mention of Grand Rapids and Michigan in the New York Times today, 3rd paragraph.

Here's the link, however I don't think it will work for those who aren't signed up for their free online service.

The City That Never Walks

Essentially, the NYT complimented Grand Rapids' walkable downtown and foretold of a mass transit renaissance in Michigan. I figure that if this NYT is getting wind of it, then it really has become an unstoppable force. Well done GR.

Edited January 29, 2007 by tracer1138

[Veloise]

Tony found this and put it up in the cat thread.

"I propose we nix the idea of streetcar in GR, and purchase a Monorail Cat system instead."

[gvsusean]

Tony found this and put it up in the cat thread.

"I propose we nix the idea of streetcar in GR, and purchase a Monorail Cat system instead."

both funny and disturbing

[GRDadof3]

There was a very nice mention of Grand Rapids and Michigan in the New York Times today, 3rd paragraph.

Here's the link, however I don't think it will work for those who aren't signed up for their free online service.

The City That Never Walks

Essentially, the NYT complimented Grand Rapids' walkable downtown and foretold of a mass transit renaissance in Michigan. I figure that if this NYT is getting wind of it, then it really has become an unstoppable force. Well done GR.

I'll see if this link works without a membership:

Google search, then click on the op ed article

Then there is Grand Rapids, Mich., which has a walkable downtown with purposely limited parking and is home to a new bus plaza that is part of a mass transit renaissance in Michigan. The state is investing in high-speed trains, and it is even talking about a mass transit system for the nation

[foo_gr]

Here's a breakdown of the ridership increases on different routes in 06:

-GVSU campus connector up 39.9%

-All fixed routes saw double digit increases

http://www.ridetherapid.org/about/reports/ridership/

Excellent. So there is demand across the board. Thanks for finding that GRDad.

[Veloise]

both funny and disturbing

Google it--there's a site with many cat pics where they've animated this one.

[snoogit]

I have a question for those who know, can BRT lanes be easily adjusted to Street Car lanes? Or would it be better to bite the bullet, and go full hog on Street cars?

I gotta say

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Strasbourg-tram.jpg

that looks cool, and I'd love to see it in GR someday. Infact I kinda hope that someday we too will have tram-only lanes in GR. some of the less trafficed roads one or two blocks off of the big ones would make great tram-only streets.

edit: Where is that cat's legs?

Edited January 30, 2007 by snoogit

[Grand Rapidian]

I have a question for those who know, can BRT lanes be easily adjusted to Street Car lanes? Or would it be better to bite the bullet, and go full hog on Street cars?

I gotta say

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Strasbourg-tram.jpg

that looks cool, and I'd love to see it in GR someday. Infact I kinda hope that someday we too will have tram-only lanes in GR. some of the less trafficed roads one or two blocks off of the big ones would make great tram-only streets.

edit: Where is that cat's legs?

If by easily adjust to street car you mean reconstruct the road (or at least the surface) then yes. Also note that you would have to install the over head cantonary (I never could figure out how to spell that word) wires for power. Though it is expensive I would like to see linear induction. I like the brick pavers in that pic a lot.

The pic must be popular, I have seen it on a lot of websites.

[dragt]

I have a question for those who know, can BRT lanes be easily adjusted to Street Car lanes? Or would it be better to bite the bullet, and go full hog on Street cars?

People keep throwing this question out like we have a choice... BRT is the only option that will qualify for gov funding. That said, if any of you out there know a developer or philanthropist willing to drop a couple hundred million on a rail project, then we can have this discussion

[GRDadof3]

People keep throwing this question out like we have a choice... BRT is the only option that will qualify for gov funding. That said, if any of you out there know a developer or philanthropist willing to drop a couple hundred million on a rail project, then we can have this discussion

Thanks tdrag, I was thinking the same thing. I think it's time to jump on board these two proposals (BRT and streetcar) and help keep the momentum going. The GT2 group has been working on this for 3 years or more, so to start over again from scratch would be a major setback. They have a consultant (no not Weslin) that is working with them who specializes in transit development and federal funding, so I think they've been informed as to what they can realistically apply for and what they can't. I don't believe the streetcar downtown qualifies for any federal funding. It will have to be through some kind of public/private parternship(s). I could be wrong, but that was the impression I got.

With all that being said, I think the first two pieces are a great start for us, considering our size is much smaller than other cities looking to add or expand mass transit.

[snoogit]

I'm sorry about that, didn't know its been asked already (And I'm one who normally looks for this answer)

I still want to know why that cat has no legs

Edited January 30, 2007 by snoogit

[Veloise]

From my weekly MLUI e-mail update:

"Today we bring you good

[GRDadof3]

There's an article in Grand Rapids Magazine this month about the upcoming expansions at the Van Andel Research Institute, and the first two paragraphs state this:

"....but there's one problem on the Hill that continues to vex the institute's sharpest investigators: parking.

"With construction on the Lemmen Holton Cancer Pavilion, the children's hospital and our space all at the same time, parking and driving down here is going to be interesting" quipped Rick Hay, PhD, M.D., deputy director for clinical programs at VARI."

A huge expansion of the institute and their biggest concern is parking. Better transit to serve healthcare hill has got to be a top priority.

[tamias6]

I know that GR sees the positive effects a street car system is having on Portland and other cities implementing such such mass transit systems. However, if Grand Rapids does implement its proposed street car and BRT plans, will chances of a good return on its investment be just as good as Portland's given Michigan's economic state? The

From my weekly MLUI e-mail update:

"Today we bring you good

[Rizzo]

I'm assuming its not going to be another 'Portland' scenario. They have other circumstances in hand with the streetcar than meets the eye.

Edited January 30, 2007 by Rizzo

[GRDadof3]

Well yes, Portland receives a lot of relocators, especially from California and other areas of the country. But they also receive a lot of transplants because they are perceived to be progressive and diverse, and growing. It's contagious. There is no magic bullet that will transform our economy into Portland's.

However, I think there are several things to consider as to why a streetcar system will be a good start:

1) Grand Rapids and West Michigan are perceived as stodgy, overly conservative and not progressive. Light rail would do wonders for that perception. Adding highway lanes does nothing in that regard.

2) Future development plans that may have been thought about for Grand Rapids will probably begin to concentrate along the streetcar line, creating some much needed critical mass. Right now, all the developments going in are spread to the far corners of downtown.

3) Developers, banks and investors do sink money into projects along light-rail lines, because they are basically permanent. It's much safer than investing near bus lines, because there's not much chance they will move. Plus, light-rail is more widely accepted than bus service is.

4) A lot of young people and progressive companies looking to branch out look into whether a city has easy access to mass transit. Buses don't usually count in that analysis.

5) It's a step closer to a metro-wide transit system.

Studying Portland's entire picture is important to this. There are many things that they did in conjunction with mass transit, including revisions to parking requirements, pedestrian-oriented zoning, and other land-use policies. All in an effort to encourage development along rail lines.

[Rizzo]

With all this excitement you'd think WOODTV or WZZM would cover this.

[GRDadof3]

With all this excitement you'd think WOODTV or WZZM would cover this.

I was surprised too that the Business Journal didn't have a write up about it, or a mention in Street Talk this past week. They have covered transit improvements in the past.

Does anyone know if Kent County could put a sales tax in place without approval from the State? If State approval is needed, we'll be sunk by the Eastsiders.

[tamias6]

^ Trying not to sound picky. But have there been instances of Kent Co. wanting to so something but was foiled by East Siders such as rising its sales tax? If I lived in another county, Kent Co. rising of sales tax within its boarders would be none of my concern.

[DwntwnGeo]

Does anyone know if Kent County could put a sales tax in place without approval from the State? If State approval is needed, we'll be sunk by the Eastsiders.

I am interested in how that an additional sales tax would work too. It sounds like a nice source of money that could be used for transit improvements and/or extensions etc. Does it require State approval or just a vote on a county level?

[GRDadof3]

^ Trying not to sound picky. But have there been instances of Kent Co. wanting to so something but was foiled by East Siders such as rising its sales tax? If I lived in another county, Kent Co. rising of sales tax within its boarders would be none of my concern.

Yes, most definitely. In fact, for the $14.4 million federal dollars set aside for Grand Rapids to continue its studies of the two proposed routes, a proposal enacted to help fund our portion was defeated a couple of times at the state level (by Granholm):

http://www.mibiz.com/absolutenm/templates/...9&zoneid=25

I can see something similar happening. "Why should just Kent County get a chance to raise its sales tax to fund transit?" "Something that would make the rest of the state look like it's falling behind". I actually see the fact that our economy is doing better than the rest of Michigan coming back to bite us. The old squeeky wheel gets the grease (Detroit).

Geo, I'll see what I can dig up on the sales tax idea.

This link says "Michigan has a 6% sales tax AND ALLOWS NO local sales tax", so it would have to be approved at the state level. Although, I would have no problem if legislation was passed that allowed any county or city in Michigan to institute its own sales tax. Kent County has its own hotel tax now.

[Khorasaurus]

What do you guys think the names of the stations will be?

My guess , based on the new maps I would say:

Streetcar south to north:

Rapid Central Station

Oakes Street/Heartside

Van Andel Arena

Fulton Street

Rosa Parks Circle

Calder Plaza/DeVos Place

Trowbridge Street

Newberry/Sixth Street Bridge

BRT South to North (Division route)

60th/Cutlerville

54th

44th

36th

28th

Burton/Garfield Park

Hall

Franklin

Wealthy/St. Mary's Health Center

Cherry/Heartside

Weston/Monument Square

Fountain/GRCC

Ottawa/Calder Plaza

Rosa Parks Circle

Fulton/Van Andel Arena

Rapid Central Station

What do you guys think?

Does anyone want to discuss station names? We got onto another topic pretty quickly after I posted this. If not, that's ok.

[Rizzo]

I vote for some station names to be simple and indicative of the main attraction. If you have a station in front of Devos Place, name it Devos Place.

[Khorasaurus]

I vote for some station names to be simple and indicative of the main attraction. If you have a station in front of Devos Place, name it Devos Place.

Yeah I agree. That's why I made that one Calder Plaza/DeVos Place. It certainly should not be named "Monroe" or "Michigan" or "Lyon." That would be uncreative and actually more confusing.

[GRDadof3]

Yeah I agree. That's why I made that one Calder Plaza/DeVos Place. It certainly should not be named "Monroe" or "Michigan" or "Lyon." That would be uncreative and actually more confusing.

I think the ones you had were fine, except maybe Rosa Park Circle might be better as "Pearl St". Especially if people staying at the AGP or Marriott ride it, they can remember Pearl Street better than "Monroe Center", which is similar to Monroe Avenue.

I'd like to eventually see an Art in Transit project at each station. Maybe Fred can donate some of his never-ending collection of sculptures to the project.