Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[GRDadof3]

I'm not surprised that a great deal of middle-aged or older people populated the room considering who would be using the expanded services. The folks pushing the county wide concept are doing so for the elderly and disabled. I really hope they can get this thing passed through. Recently, gramps decided that owning a car in declining health is no joke.

No, all the DA/transit people had pretty much all left the meeting. It was mainly the board itself that surprised me the most.

[GRDadof3]

A consortium of Grand Rapids area transit advocates, including Disability Advocates, Faith in Motion, the Kent County Emergency Needs Transit Task Force, Concerned Citizens for Improved Transportation, and Friends of Transit is putting together a central website linking all these groups together with a common goal, mission, meeting updates, legislation, action plans, and much more content. They have invited members of UrbanPlanet to join in and possibly help create content and updates for the website, as well as provide other assistance.

I'll keep you all posted as I hear more, but for those interested in helping out, post your interest here.

Thanks!

[metrogrkid]

I got there just at the tail end of the public comment portion of this meeting (and met Dave Bulkowski of Disability Advocates in the hall). I couldn't believe that the whole room, including the board, appeared to be all middle-aged and old white men.

Such a European-dominated deliberative body is what has historically always made all of the default judgements and decisions for this region and why cultural tastes, hopes and aspirations outside of those reflecting European/White tastes, hopes and aspirations are either begrudgingly asked "why does that matter, we all like the same things, why can't we just get along?" at best or ignored altogether at worst.

The fact that you peeped that out in your own way AND SAID IT in your own way brings me great hope for the insides of GR changing along with its highly visibly changing outsides.

Edited December 18, 2007 by metrogrkid

[Rizzo]

Of course you're going to see old white guys. Kent county isn't as diverse as people would like to think at 82.1% being white. So its no coincidence that the board is overwhelmingly white. In all fairness I don't see how you can have a diverse board when the districts they represent aren't diverse.

Edited December 18, 2007 by Rizzo

[tamias6]

^Would that make it more likely Kent County making bad calls on transportation that if the County had more diverse demographics?

[Rizzo]

No, I think it has more to do with ones line of thinking. If you're a rural commissioner with limited funds and sparse population you might be more skeptic of transit's importance.

Edited December 18, 2007 by Rizzo

[GRDadof3]

No, I think it has more to do with ones line of thinking. If you're a rural commissioner with limited funds and sparse population you might be more skeptic of transit's importance.

It's a little more diverse than it appeared while there, but it was just something I noticed. Not a huge deal.

http://www.accesskent.com/YourGovernment/B...es/BOC_2007.jpg

[jas49503]

Such a European-dominated deliberative body is what has historically always made all of the default judgements and decisions for this region and why cultural tastes, hopes and aspirations outside of those reflecting European/White tastes,

Europeans love public transportation, this should be a slam dunk. I believe you intended to say white, non-hispanic, non-middle eastern Americans, which of course means that this is far from over.

[Raildudes dad]

I'm not surprised that a great deal of middle-aged or older people populated the room considering who would be using the expanded services. The folks pushing the county wide concept are doing so for the elderly and disabled. I really hope they can get this thing passed through. Recently, gramps decided that owning a car in declining health is no joke.

Unfortunately only the disabled appear to be at these meetings. Someone needs to explain to me why the blind lady doesn't qualify for the $2.60 or whatever cheap rate the GO bus charges for the disabled?. Where are the shakers & movers in the town that can make transit happen? They didn't show up at the meeting at the RAPID nor does it sound like like they showed up at the County Commission. Transit has to appeal to and be attractive to more than those groups to be successful.

[GRDadof3]

Unfortunately only the disabled appear to be at these meetings. Someone needs to explain to me why the blind lady doesn't qualify for the $2.60 or whatever cheap rate the GO bus charges for the disabled?. Where are the shakers & movers in the town that can make transit happen? They didn't show up at the meeting at the RAPID nor does it sound like like they showed up at the County Commission. Transit has to appeal to and be attractive to more than those groups to be successful.

Well for one thing, a lot of these meeting are in the middle of the day. The movers and shakers are moving and shaking.

[Sailor]

Why can't one hail a cab in downtown Grand Rapids?

[Cliff19336]

Unfortunately only the disabled appear to be at these meetings. Someone needs to explain to me why the blind lady doesn't qualify for the $2.60 or whatever cheap rate the GO bus charges for the disabled?. Where are the shakers & movers in the town that can make transit happen? They didn't show up at the meeting at the RAPID nor does it sound like like they showed up at the County Commission. Transit has to appeal to and be attractive to more than those groups to be successful.

She lives outside the funding district and the service district. She made a bad decision moving out to BFE, not thinking about her mobility needs, and now is trying to lay the blame on the Rapid. She's one of those wacko's who are oblivious to the world around her and needs to blame someone else for her troubles.

[GRDadof3]

She lives outside the funding district and the service district. She made a bad decision moving out to BFE, not thinking about her mobility needs, and now is trying to lay the blame on the Rapid. She's one of those wacko's who are oblivious to the world around her and needs to blame someone else for her troubles.

Ouch, pretty harsh words for a disabled woman. Not saying that she's in the right, because I don't know her circumstances.

Sailor

Why can't one hail a cab in downtown Grand Rapids?

There's an old silly (I mean city) ordinance against it. The city was actually discussing nixing it with the advent of the two new pedicab businesses. I say begone with that ordinance. Especially with the addition of more and more bars and restaurants downtown, easy access to cabs is pretty important.

Does anyone know what Grand Haven's Mayor is referring to?

Bergman also announced a plan to create a regional mass transit service for the Tri-Cities, Holland, Muskegon and Grand Rapids. He said West Michigan manufacturing leaders have requested the idea be pursued, and the mayors of Holland and Grand Rapids have already expressed support for it.

http://www.grandhaventribune.com/paid/302184142881566.bsp

[Sailor]

There's an old silly (I mean city) ordinance against it. The city was actually discussing nixing it with the advent of the two new pedicab businesses. I say begone with that ordinance. Especially with the addition of more and more bars and restaurants downtown, easy access to cabs is pretty important.

Yep, I think it's high time to nix it. We know parking is a sensitive issue around here , and we like to model up (e.g., Chicago), so...I'm just sayin' it would be pretty darned handy to be able to find that perfect parking spot, then hail a cab to get to where I want to be.

Case in point: Four of us went downtown for dinner Sunday. Got a great spot on Lyon near Monroe. We were planning on eating at Bull's Head. But, whoops...they were closed. So was the Chop House. And Mojo's.

We ended up at Churchill's (my new favorite restaurant!), but we had to move the car -- Mom was with us, so walking from Lyon and Monroe over to Ionia and Oakes wasn't an option. I would have loved to just hail a cab. Similar thing happened two weeks ago, on a Saturday.

[Rizzo]

Ouch, pretty harsh words for a disabled woman. Not saying that she's in the right, because I don't know her circumstances.

There's an old silly (I mean city) ordinance against it. The city was actually discussing nixing it with the advent of the two new pedicab businesses. I say begone with that ordinance. Especially with the addition of more and more bars and restaurants downtown, easy access to cabs is pretty important.

Does anyone know what Grand Haven's Mayor is referring to?

Bergman also announced a plan to create a regional mass transit service for the Tri-Cities, Holland, Muskegon and Grand Rapids. He said West Michigan manufacturing leaders have requested the idea be pursued, and the mayors of Holland and Grand Rapids have already expressed support for it.

http://www.grandhaventribune.com/paid/302184142881566.bsp

I am REALLY surprised this push is coming from the manufacturing sector -- this give me very high hopes for whats to come. I wouldn't doubt it, but I bet there could be transit links from suburb to suburb to help with the commuters to the many manufacturing parks. What gets me thinking is that specialty manufacturers are trying to court talent and having metro wide transit seems like a good selling point.

Mayor McGeehan last week told me that both him and Mayor Heartwell envision a link. I'm not surprised if more is in store.

For BRT, Feds say yes.

Edited December 19, 2007 by Rizzo

[DwntwnGeo]

As Rizzo mentioned above "Federal approval for BRT"

"A plan to build a near 10-mile express bus line to serve communities south of Grand Rapids moved from concept to reality today with news that federal approval needed to eventually secure money for the project has been given."

"Varga said early next year he will begin working with Gov. Jennifer Granholm, the Michigan Department of Transportation, and local lawmakers to ensure the money is included in next year's state budget"

Let's hope Varga doesn't have too much trouble in Lansing next year.

More details from the FTA expected later this week.

The story is on Mlive.com

BRT Approval

Edited December 19, 2007 by DwntwnGeo

[Rizzo]

Apparently, Ehler's office says the project has to "compete." I'm not sure who else is in the running, but it would be interesting to know.

Edited December 19, 2007 by Rizzo

[Raildudes dad]

She lives outside the funding district and the service district. She made a bad decision moving out to BFE, not thinking about her mobility needs, and now is trying to lay the blame on the Rapid. She's one of those wacko's who are oblivious to the world around her and needs to blame someone else for her troubles.

Then I would think someone from the RAPID should have stood up at both meetings and politely said "ma'am - we have had previous discussions with you about this and you live outside the GO BUS service area. You need to either move into our service area or convince your township to add your area into the service area". and then ended the discussion. It doesn't do the transit provider and the discussion of the transit subject any good to allow it to go unanswered and brought up repeatedly. It doesn't help the RAPID web site doesn't list the service area either

[Grand Rapidian]

19 stops on the 10 mile stretch... one stop every .5 miles? I guess I can see it, as the average person will walk up to .25 mile max and the walk time is 5 minutes for 1320 ft, but I thought BRT included more distance between stops (in the 1 mile range) Is there going to be a right of way lane here? This is good news. Are there going to be stations at each stop? Someone will have to get a bench mark of what there is along this route to be able to compare to see what the effects are over time with the route in place. It will be tough to give a definitive, but I think it will be noticeable in the look of the businesses along the street and maybe into the neighborhoods.

[GRDadof3]

19 stops on the 10 mile stretch... one stop every .5 miles? I guess I can see it, as the average person will walk up to .25 mile max and the walk time is 5 minutes for 1320 ft, but I thought BRT included more distance between stops (in the 1 mile range) Is there going to be a right of way lane here? This is good news. Are there going to be stations at each stop? Someone will have to get a bench mark of what there is along this route to be able to compare to see what the effects are over time with the route in place. It will be tough to give a definitive, but I think it will be noticeable in the look of the businesses along the street and maybe into the neighborhoods.

That's been a bone of contention for many of us, is too many stops on the BRT line. They hope to pull commuters off of 131 to use the BRT, but with that many stops, we believe it will get frustrating for people used to driving pretty much unencumbered on 131, and add a lot of time.

[dragt]

I know we've talked about this before but I feel like you're misrepresenting the route. 9 of the 19 stops are in the last 2ish miles that snake through downtown. In fact from 60th to 28th it's a bit more than a mile between stops. It's just common sense, more stops in areas of increased density. All this means that the trip from 60th to, say... cherry will go quite fast (especially with signal priority and off board fare collection). Then things will slow down a bit once you get DT, but how is that different than driving - unless you happen to be one of the very lucky few who can park at/under your final destination. You'd have to park, walk, dash-it or whatever...

perception matters, so be careful how you talk about our precious "new start"

19 stops on the 10 mile stretch... one stop every .5 miles? I guess I can see it, as the average person will walk up to .25 mile max and the walk time is 5 minutes for 1320 ft, but I thought BRT included more distance between stops (in the 1 mile range) Is there going to be a right of way lane here? This is good news. Are there going to be stations at each stop? Someone will have to get a bench mark of what there is along this route to be able to compare to see what the effects are over time with the route in place. It will be tough to give a definitive, but I think it will be noticeable in the look of the businesses along the street and maybe into the neighborhoods.

That's been a bone of contention for many of us, is too many stops on the BRT line. They hope to pull commuters off of 131 to use the BRT, but with that many stops, we believe it will get frustrating for people used to driving pretty much unencumbered on 131, and add a lot of time.

[Allison Slater]

Varga said depending on when funding is secured in a federal transportation bill, the line could begin operating in 2011 or 2012.

Why so long? D=

[AlexPKeaton]

Why so long? D=

That actually seems pretty quick to me.

[metrogrkid]

Europeans love public transportation, this should be a slam dunk. I believe you intended to say white, non-hispanic, non-middle eastern Americans, which of course means that this is far from over.

I indeed intended to say European - as in referring to people that descend from European heritage and that encompasses what mostly Americans refer to less precisely as white.

Please know that I rarely intend something else while saying something different. When that occurs I am trying to be either ironic or sarcastic. That definitely was not the case nor intent here. Thank you for guessing though.

Onto the real news, though . . . . at this morning's GT2/PTT meeting, I was pleased to hear the announcement that the GR South Division BRT project has been accepted as the newest Small Starts project (with the help of our own US Rep. Vern Ehlers). This is particularly important because it will permanently put any future Metro GR (READ: GR/Muskegon/Holland) fixed guideway projects (such as the Division Avenue BRT upgrading to light-rail or commuter rail between the Metro Triangle ends or light-rail from GVSU-Allendale to Central Station to Ford Airport) in a credible/preferred light with the Federal Transportation Administration (FTA). This is EXACTLY why Detroit wants to now "collaborate" with Metro GR: we accomplished the difficult in-Metro collaborating and consensus-building as required by FTA and now we are the only unified region that has access to FTA's fast lane. We must ALL absolutely do this => but restrain ourselves from doing this =>

Edited December 20, 2007 by metrogrkid

[GRDadof3]

I indeed intended to say European - as in referring to people that descend from European heritage and that encompasses what mostly Americans refer to less precisely as white.

Please know that I rarely intend something else while saying something different. When that occurs I am trying to be either ironic or sarcastic. That definitely was not the case nor intent here. Thank you for guessing though.

Onto the real news, though . . . . at this morning's GT2/PTT meeting, I was pleased to hear the announcement that the GR South Division BRT project has been accepted as the newest Small Starts project (with the help of our own US Rep. Vern Ehlers). This is particularly important because it will permanently put any future Metro GR (READ: GR/Muskegon/Holland) fixed guideway projects (such as the Division Avenue BRT upgrading to light-rail or commuter rail between the Metro Triangle ends or light-rail from GVSU-Allendale to Central Station to Ford Airport) in a credible/preferred light with the Federal Transportation Administration (FTA). This is EXACTLY why Detroit wants to now "collaborate" with Metro GR: we accomplished the difficult in-Metro collaborating and consensus-building as required by FTA and now we are the only unified region that has access to FTA's fast lane. We must ALL absolutely do this => but restrain ourselves from doing this =>

It is fantastic news! Can I do this?