Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[metrogrkid]

Someone wrote a letter to the Editor in the The Press proposing a regional commuter bus system utilizing area school buses. Sound like a good idea?

The idea and the "light-finally-going-on-over-our-cars-fixated-heads" quality of the idea are welcome and should be followed by getting this person in the loop on the world-class systems being put in place to address these issues.

The using of the school busses is cute and humorous, but will ABSOLUTELY not get potential exurban commuters out of their BMWs and into a BIG YELLOW BUS - image is everything to these folks and if anyone thinks that such people that are adverse to riding a linehaul bus will opt for a BIG YELLOW one, they just don't get that dynamic and the power of the real transit options that apply to this scenario (i.e. - BRT, lightrail, commuter rail). Anything less than those parenthesized options will just be ignored at the least and roundly ridiculed at worst.

Edited June 2, 2008 by metrogrkid

[Rizzo]

While it may appear "cute and humorous" it really speaks to the level of concern and sense of urgency area residents have of their transportation needs.

The point I took from that letter was use current infrastructure to get a working model up and running quickly. Although, I really do think this community can afford an upgrade above school buses.

[GRDadof3]

The idea and the "light-finally-going-on-over-our-cars-fixated-heads" quality of the idea are welcome and should be followed by getting this person in the loop on the world-class systems being put in place to address these issues.

The using of the school busses is cute and humorous, but will ABSOLUTELY not get potential exurban commuters out of their BMWs and into a BIG YELLOW BUS - image is everything to these folks and if anyone thinks that such people that are adverse to riding a linehaul bus will opt for a BIG YELLOW one, they just don't get that dynamic and the power of the real transit options that apply to this scenario (i.e. - BRT, lightrail, commuter rail). Anything less than those parenthesized options will just be ignored at the least and roundly ridiculed at worst.

Agreed. I think it's great that more people are thinking this way (creatively exploring transit options), but basing the potential effectiveness of a transit model on school bus use is not the way to go. I've ridden on a school bus lately, and even the newer ones are noisy, the seats are hard, the windows are too small, and the ceilings are too low. Gas would have to be $20/gallon before I'd consider the idea, and I'd buy a scooter before I'd do that.

[metrogrkid]

Agreed. I think it's great that more people are thinking this way (creatively exploring transit options), but basing the potential effectiveness of a transit model on school bus use is not the way to go. I've ridden on a school bus lately, and even the newer ones are noisy, the seats are hard, the windows are too small, and the ceilings are too low. Gas would have to be $20/gallon before I'd consider the idea, and I'd buy a scooter before I'd do that.

You said it as it needs to be said! I think we have finally, as a metro region, arrived at that place where we will accept transit use BUT ONLY if it is a world-class mode (i.e. - streetrail, lightrail, BRT, metrorail, commuter rail). A decade from now will see incredible transformations for Metro GR because of our current budding mass transit/transit-oriented development paradigm shift. BRING ON $10/GALLON GAS!! TRANSIT WILL NO LONGER BE FOR "Those Other People"! IT WILL BE THE PREFERRED OPTION FOR ALL PEOPLE.

Seriously, besides not being as car-crazed as the U.S., decades of $8 to $10/gallon gas in Europe contributed greatly to that region of the world evolving highly seamless and world-class mass transit systems. The U.S. just has a history of needing to be clobbered over the head with reality before it does what others already know to be a huge benefit for the masses (like transit).

Edited June 2, 2008 by metrogrkid

[aowwt]

Uhm europe only has those high gas prices because of taxes. In fact it cost more in the states to refine gasoline than it does in europe. They just tax the heck out of the autos to build a quality public transit system. Not to mention when you have 400 million living on less land and have streets designed for horses and not autos you have to redo your thinking and thats why they did what they do. I have quite a few friends in the EU and we compared notes and what not.

[Rizzo]

Teaser..... expect an informational website on a regional transit proposal to be worked on sometime in a month or so. It's being presented by area leaders throughout West Michigan. Collaboration is going forward on this issue and resolutions of support from municipalities should be trickling in during the coming weeks.

[Rizzo]

Someone wrote a letter to the Editor in the The Press proposing a regional commuter bus system utilizing area school buses. Sound like a good idea?

Looks like the idea is catching on in Cincinnati. The Enquirer is reporting a plan to use area school buses for transit.

[metrogrkid]

READ IT AND TAKE HEED DETROIT & GR PEOPLE . . . .

Grand Rapids: Gateway to Michigan's Transit Success

Feds won't support Detroit's Woodward Lightrail nor Detroit/Ann Arbor Commuter Rail unless State matches Federal funds for Grand Rapids BRT system

By Andy Guy

Great Lakes Bulletin News Service

DIRECT LINK TO STORY AT MICHIGAN LAND USE INSTITUTE ONLINE

Edited June 13, 2008 by metrogrkid

[Allison Slater]

Wow, I must say I'm impressed with this one.

[gvsusean]

im nholding my breath... I'm sur Granholm and the east side of the state will muck this up.

[metrogrkid]

im nholding my breath... I'm sur Granholm and the east side of the state will muck this up.

They better not - if they do, they will NEVER get funding for their Detroit-Metro Airport-Ann Arbor commuter rail nor their Woodward Avenue lightrail and Michigan in general will be another generation removed from EVER having a chance to crack into FTA New Start fixed guideway transit system funding. That is why officials from SMART and D-DOT made such a big showing with officials from ITP/The Rapid last winter at Central Station to show visible collaborative support from the state's two largest regions for the GR BRT project. Believe me, SMART and D-DOT have been fully aware for at least two years now that the GR project must get its State match of $8 million for the Detroit applications to even get in the FTA door. THEY SAID SO OUT OF THEIR OWN MOUTHS RIGHT HERE IN GR WITH ITP/THE RAPID OFFICIALS NODDING KNOWINGLY FROM THE OTHER END OF THE DIAS.

Edited June 16, 2008 by metrogrkid

[Rizzo]

It will be easy both politically and fiscally to deny or award the $8 million for this project.

Guy in his article is right about mentioning Granholm's comments at WoodTV. Granholm tore up transit and somehow reduced it into a road issue during the town hall meeting. The whole thing was insulting.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Rizzo

[Rizzo]

Add Grand Haven to the list of cities supporting the decision to study regional transit. The Muskegon Chronicle reports that Grand Haven's City Council voted to approve a resolution of support for the West Michigan Transit Linkage Study. The study will be funded by a grant through MDOT.

West Michigan citizens and leaders envision a regional bus system linking harbor towns along the shore with Grand Rapids. The survey will determine if there is a demand for this service and the feasibility of meeting the need. The analysis expected to start this summer and finish later in the fall.

[metrogrkid]

Add Grand Haven to the list of cities supporting the decision to study regional transit. The Muskegon Chronicle reports that Grand Haven's City Council voted to approve a resolution of support for the West Michigan Transit Linkage Study. The study will be funded by a grant through MDOT.

West Michigan citizens and leaders envision a regional bus system linking harbor towns along the shore with Grand Rapids. The survey will determine if there is a demand for this service and the feasibility of meeting the need. The analysis expected to start this summer and finish later in the fall.

Once this is implemented, this will start the process of growing the ridership to support a future commuter rail system along the U.S.-31<Muskegon to Holland>/I-196<GR to Holland>/I-96<GR to Muskegon> legs of the metro triangle as well as set up Grand Haven's Grand Landing as a lakeshore transit center for the U.S.-31 commuter train and the lakeshore intermodal connection from there to the future GVSU-Allendale station of the future East/West (GVSU-to-Ford Airport) metrorail corridor (the western portion of which is currently being demonstrated by the large and ever-growing ridership of ITP/Rapid Route 50). This is thirty to fifty years of good stuff coming down the pipeline for the whole Triplex cahuna.

Edited June 19, 2008 by metrogrkid

[GRDadof3]

The streetcar feasibility report from DMJM Harris is now out. I'm hoping that Rizzo will be able to post some excerpts from it here today or tomorrow. I know only enough to be dangerous.

But in essence, it sounds pretty good, but will take a concerted private/public effort to make it happen.

[Rizzo]

Don't worry about being dangerous.

The study is expected to be voted on by the board tomorrow at a committee meeting.

Based on this draft study the downtown streetcar is feasible and will cost over $78 million and $1.75 million per year to operate. The magic number for UP members will be $388 million for total investment expended downtown. This is the development value expected between years 2012 and 2021 on hotel, office, retail and housing projects 1/4 mile from the route. Ridership could be at or near levels seen elsewhere around North America (2,700-2,900/day in 2012.) The ROI potential is one streetcar dollar would generate about $3.77 for Kent county business. It gets better at the state level where the ROI potential increases to $4.58. According to DMJM Harris, a Grand Rapids streetcar would net a ROI substantially higher than other streetcars under current study (Washington DC, Birmingham, AL) The project has the potential to equate to 1806 jobs in Kent County. To pay for and operating the streetcar, the study recommends private funding, parking surcharges, funding from decommissioned DASH routes serviced by streetcars, transit money from the state, fare, TIFs, etc.

ITP will need to formally accept the findings of this study. Then from there the report recommends forming a non-profit corporation to gather funds and provide oversight.

I know many of you are interested in dollar amounts. However, I'd like to point out that the real value of using rail in greater Grand Rapids goes way beyond economic development. Imagine using renewable energy sources such as wind (think Butterworth dump site) and water on the Grand to power a network of electric light rail lines between the city and suburbs! The kind of future ahead of us is bright if we concentrate on this one step.

Market and Fulton

Edited June 24, 2008 by Rizzo

[Rizzo]

Our friends on the Shore are coming in with support! Add the Muskegon Chronicle to the growing list of metro papers in support of transit. The Chronicle editorialized support for a greater commitment to mass-transit nationally and regionally.

[GRDadof3]

Don't worry about being dangerous.

The study is expected to be voted on by the board tomorrow at a committee meeting.

Based on this draft study the downtown streetcar is feasible and will cost over $78 million and $1.75 million per year to operate. The magic number for UP members will be $388 million for total investment expended downtown. This is the development value expected between years 2012 and 2021 on hotel, office, retail and housing projects 1/4 mile from the route. Ridership could be at or near levels seen elsewhere around North America (2,700-2,900/day in 2012.) The ROI potential is one streetcar dollar would generate about $3.77 for Kent county business. It gets better at the state level where the ROI potential increases to $4.58. According to DMJM Harris, a Grand Rapids streetcar would net a ROI substantially higher than other streetcars under current study (Washington DC, Birmingham, AL) The project has the potential to equate to 1806 jobs in Kent County. To pay for and operating the streetcar, the study recommends private funding, parking surcharges, funding from decommissioned DASH routes serviced by streetcars, transit money from the state, fare, TIFs, etc.

ITP will need to formally accept the findings of this study. Then from there the report recommends forming a non-profit corporation to gather funds and provide oversight.

I know many of you are interested in dollar amounts. However, I'd like to point out that the real value of using rail in greater Grand Rapids goes way beyond economic development. Imagine using renewable energy sources such as wind (think Butterworth dump site) and water on the Grand to power a network of electric light rail lines between the city and suburbs! The kind of future ahead of us is bright if we concentrate on this one step.

Market and Fulton

Thanks Rizzo! I don't know, ROI of 3.77, new jobs, new riverfront developments, a reasonable timeframe (2012 - 2021). I think it will be a hard sell.

[Josh]

A hard sell indeed, GRDad

Thanks for the images Rizzo! Very exciting... is there a way to get our hands on the rest of the feasibility study?

[fotoman311]

That sure would make my bicycle commute a lot more interesting!

[d8alterego]

Obviously this rendering is just to show a transit-oriented development, but I really like how they didn't keep the skywalk. I tend to like buildings better w/o them (I know they have an economical and tourist benefit, but still).

[GRDadof3]

Obviously this rendering is just to show a transit-oriented development, but I really like how they didn't keep the skywalk. I tend to like buildings better w/o them (I know they have an economical and tourist benefit, but still).

They're not talking about doing away with the skywalk, FWIW. I believe they even mention the skywalk specifically in the study, at one or two of the proposed stops.

There's also a few renderings of a visionary TOD at the three corners of Monroe Ave and Trowbridge, with Trowbridge extended as a plaza out to 6th Street Park. It's nice too that they're not envisioning 30 story buildings, but more in the 4 - 10 story range. The streetcar is shown turning East on Trowbridge to Bond, North on Bond, and looping back West on Newberry to Monroe to head South again.

Eh, probably easier if I just post em.

People have been asking for more riverfront activities. 50,000 square feet of retail oughta be a good start.

You'll be looking at history in the making over the next few days. The first real study of an actual working light rail line in Grand Rapids. BTW, there's a lot more to the study than just proposed TOD's, but the renderings are a lot more fun to look at than study specifics.

[Yankee Fan]

They're not talking about doing away with the skywalk, FWIW. I believe they even mention the skywalk specifically in the study, at one or two of the proposed stops.

There's also a few renderings of a visionary TOD at the three corners of Monroe Ave and Trowbridge, with Trowbridge extended as a plaza out to 6th Street Park. It's nice too that they're not envisioning 30 story buildings, but more in the 4 - 10 story range. The streetcar is shown turning East on Trowbridge to Bond, North on Bond, and looping back West on Newberry to Monroe to head South again.

Eh, probably easier if I just post em.

People have been asking for more riverfront activities. 50,000 square feet of retail oughta be a good start.

You'll be looking at history in the making over the next few days. The first real study of an actual working light rail line in Grand Rapids. BTW, there's a lot more to the study than just proposed TOD's, but the renderings are a lot more fun to look at than study specifics.

We most definitely will be missing the boat as a community if we do not see this revolution through. This is so much bigger than just the streetcars. This study proves that it can be done, how it can be done, and why it should be done.

Count me as one vote who was on the fence before but is now solidly behind this entire concept. I really hope that Grand Rapids steps up and shows everyone that we are more than ready for big things. I am so excited by this that I could ramble on and on! Let's all get on the horn and push those that we know to get behind this. This is one of those moments, those defining moments. We cannot let this slip past. We need to ensure that this happens.

[d8alterego]

Does anyone know how many developers that have weighed in on this study? I would think that there would be HUGE support from them for this and that they would help support this effort in anyway possible. It would be really cool if they all got together and made some adverts on the topic. I'm sure there is some sort of effort already, but if anyone saw some big names at the meeting, I'd love to know.

[NorthCoast]

DMJM did a TOD presentation at the Growing Communities conference a few weeks back. They didn't use this study though. They just gave an example of how TOD developments differ from conventional development.