Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[Prankster]

3] that corridor would cater to downtown's 30,000+ office workers, 8,000+ daily downtown visitors/convention delegates/business travelers;

Minor point of clarification, but all reports that I have seen come out of city hall puts the downtown worker count between 20,000 and 22,000. I highly doubt that there will be an influx of 8,000 to 10,000 new workers within the next few years without some serious office construction going on. Not to say that it wouldn't be a nice problem to have.

[concretepoem]

Yes, but to put things into perspective, I believe the I-196 expansion to 3 lanes from East Beltline to downtown is supposed to cost something like $400 million. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.)

There's a feature story in this morning's New York Times that gives both sides to the debate on the impact of urban streetcar, the politics, the costs, etc. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/us/14streetcar.html

[Rizzo]

This is a tad off-topic from the current discussion, but does anyone know if the discussion from this article had a decison?:

http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/07/bus_..._grand_val.html

Thanks!

Welcome MikeRapin

Not sure what's going on, but I can find out. Will get back to you when information is available.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Rizzo

[crinzema]

The long-range GVSU-Allendale to Ford Airport metrorail line - with its 18 stations - would cost in the vicinity of $2 billion to $3 billion to construct.

B as in Billion!!! With that kind of money, you could give everyone in Grand Rapids a brand new car! EVERYONE!

[Rizzo]

B as in Billion!!! With that kind of money, you could give everyone in Grand Rapids a brand new car! EVERYONE!

Transit is about creating mobility for everyone. Give everyone cars and everyone has to screw around in traffic, increased gas prices and environmental problems. More cars is not the solution, albeit neither is a single multi-billion dollar transit project. West Michigan needs a transportation system that is diverse in modes. It has to be a mixture of roads and rail based systems. All these can be scaled around Grand Rapids.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Rizzo

[grcitydog]

Not to mention that more cars means more car infrastructure to accomodate them and that would cost even more billions of $.

[crinzema]

With a minimal sales per square foot rate of $10 per day per total square footage, the combined station sales per square foot would equal $4.93 billion per year! Not a bad return. Something to go hmmmmmmmm about.

I don't understand how this project is making revenue by the way you described it, but i can tell you this for sure, there is no way it can provide a $4,930,000,000.00 profit every year. I estimate that city of "Grand Rapid's GDP" to be only around 10 Billion. (national GDP/POP X GR POP)

I know this is a crude formula but it at least gives you a slight idea.

Edited August 15, 2008 by crinzema

[GRDadof3]

I don't understand how this project is making revenue by the way you described it, but i can tell you this for sure, there is no way it can provide a $4,930,000,000.00 profit every year. I estimate that city of "Grand Rapid's GDP" to be only around 10 Billion. (national GDP/POP X GR POP)

I know this is a crude formula but it at least gives you a slight idea.

Actually I believe it's about $30 Billion GDP for the GR/Wyoming MSA. But you're right, retail sales for the entire Kent County is $8 Billion. I don't see a bunch of TOD's producing $4.9 Billion in sales, or 1/2 the county's retail sales. In fact, I don't think you'll find a single transit line in America that has that kind of retail development around it.

[GRDadof3]

Here's an interesting video I found of Detroit's Woodward Alignment LRT proposal:

http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=...&CID=181621

Would it behoove our city/transit leaders to put together a video like this for the BRT and streetcar? It makes for a good marketing/sales tool IMO. Expensive, but it might be worth it.

[Rizzo]

This is a tad off-topic from the current discussion, but does anyone know if the discussion from this article had a decison?:

http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/07/bus_..._grand_val.html

Thanks!

I'm calling this project DOA. My source said some people came out against having bus service going through their neighborhoods. The Allendale Township board voted to end discussion. The concept may be revistsited by the Township, but instead of having a bus loop it might just be dial-a-ride.

[Allison Slater]

Stopped into Central Station today for a malt cup and saw proposed rate increases briefly on their new informatin screens. All I remember is:

Standard fare increase from $1.30 to $1.50

Adult 31-day pass increase from $35 to $40

Edit: Full list of proposed fare changes and details found here: http://www.ridetherapid.org/news/?newsID=107

Edited August 21, 2008 by tSlater

[blueradon]

Yeah that's not a big surprise - all the area dial-a-ride services are raising their fees. Greenville's residents had such an uproar about the town canceling Saturday's service that it pretty much forced to bring them back with hiked fees...

[jbr12]

Not surprising. I noticed it this morning riding in to work. More of a nuisance for me than anything since I go with the 10-ride cards and they went from a nice clean $10 bill to me needing to bring along an extra buck and quarters now ($11.50)

Still cheaper then a second car payment and gas!

[Allison Slater]

Well, buy up all the 10-ride cards now whilst they're still $10 xD

[fotoman311]

Found this entertaining Goofy cartoon from the 1950s. It's about 7 minutes. It's definitely still relevant, if not moreso.

Edited August 26, 2008 by fotoman311

[grrwymg]

Found this entertaining Goofy cartoon from the 1950s. It's about 7 minutes. It's definitely still relevant, if not moreso.

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[GRDadof3]

That was wild. Disney made some very bizarre films back in the 50's, like this one "Disney's Magic Highway". It's interesting what things they speculated have come about and what things have not. Their estimations that cities would spread out in vast urban areas served by mega highways has pretty much panned out. And the whole part about the Dad parking right next to his desk made me laugh.

[GRDadof3]

The Press comes out pro-transit, again:

Smart transit policy at GVSU

Wow, the number of cars on campus at GVSU has plunged from 13,000 four years ago to just 8800 this year. Rides on the Rapid have skyrocketed in the same period from 837,000 to 1.9 Million per year.

[Rizzo]

I want to emphasize the word, again

[GRDadof3]

Some encouraging news regarding the St Mary's area. As part of their plans to build an "urban village" West of the hospital campus, St Mary's has now incorporated two BRT stations in their developments plans. The BRT stations would sit where the yet-to-be-demolished Eerdman's building still sits, South of Maple. It doesn't quite say, but I assume the two platforms would be on opposite sides of Jefferson.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&...1&encType=1

Article in Rapid Growth

[wingbert]

The Press comes out pro-transit, again:

Smart transit policy at GVSU

Wow, the number of cars on campus at GVSU has plunged from 13,000 four years ago to just 8800 this year. Rides on the Rapid have skyrocketed in the same period from 837,000 to 1.9 Million per year.

I particularly enjoyed the response posted in the comments section by Erwin Haas, Libertarian Candidate for the Third District Congressional Seat. What an a-hole. Any public transportation experts from U.P. feel like posting a retort?

[GR_Urbanist]

Some encouraging news regarding the St Mary's area. As part of their plans to build an "urban village" West of the hospital campus, St Mary's has now incorporated two BRT stations in their developments plans. The BRT stations would sit where the yet-to-be-demolished Eerdman's building still sits, South of Maple. It doesn't quite say, but I assume the two platforms would be on opposite sides of Jefferson.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&...1&encType=1

Article in Rapid Growth

When they start turning dirt, then I'll be impressed.

They can want to put in a spaceport, it doesn't mean a thing until the do it.

[fotoman311]

Apparently the Rapid had an escaped bus:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rudymalmquist...57607330581921/

Haven't seen this yet on any of the local news sites.

[Veloise]

My favorite newspaper offered this today:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008809170364

In the comments, my quote from Wikipedia about the GR city charter is in response to something that the Freep covered for, oh, the last 8 months.

[aowwt]

There is a huge meeting coming up pretty soon in the next month at the Southern Lutheran Church on 56th Street off Division Ave. This meeting is to come up with a plan for the Avenue that involves the RAPID. Its being chaired by the entire city councils of Wyoming, Kentwood, and Gaines Township. The Planning Commisions are also to be there as well. On top of this the RAPID board is to be there. Outside of that the FHWA, MDOT, and others have been invitied. From what I gathered this is more or less a planning session on using a good portion of money to set up a plan for the Avenue. This plan is going to use a huge grant of money from the feds. By mean huge I heard in the range of 50 to 100 million dollars. I am waiting for planning commission minutes to come out to let me know exactly when it is.