Transit Updates for Greater Grand Rapids

[John E]

Actually, I'm not advocating streetcar or light rail for South Division. It'd be way too expensive. In fact, I think it'd be smarter and cheaper to build commuter rail along the 131 corridor to downtown, and make upgrades to the already existing South Division bus line to make it more of an express service. And since GM won't be using that rail line and yard for much longer, that operator is going to be looking for people to lease those railroad tracks.

I do think the streetcar on Monroe is a great start, to eventually be expanded to serve Gaslight Village and maybe areas along Seward on the West side.

Anyway, in the news today, Fisher Coachworks is opening a new facility in Livonia to build a new plug-in 40 foot long hybrid bus:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../812150409/1361

That is super cool news. Thanks for the story link and the the image of the super cool looking bus.

~John

[Rizzo]

Actually, I'm not advocating streetcar or light rail for South Division. It'd be way too expensive. In fact, I think it'd be smarter and cheaper to build commuter rail along the 131 corridor to downtown, and make upgrades to the already existing South Division bus line to make it more of an express service. And since GM won't be using that rail line and yard for much longer, that operator is going to be looking for people to lease those railroad tracks.

Watco Companies doing business as Grand Elk Railroad is trying to enter into an agreement with Norfolk Southern. The line described in the agreement is between downtown and Elkhart, In. In reposnse, Marquette Rail and the Michigan Economic Development Corporation are contesting the lease on grounds of economic hardship.

Grand Elk projects upwards of $5 Million a year in revenue from this line sans GM. Grand Elk also plans to put in $2.7 million in line upgrades through some segments so that trains can travel upwards of 20mph.

[aowwt]

Well, as to answer your question about a linear devolopment. It could work provided. I would have to say that if a devoloper brings it up I am certian a few of the planners would go for it. Those that are unsure, I can talk to accordingly. The key thing is the planning commision has a lot of new work ahead of themselves with some new work. The key thing is that I think you have to understand that the BRT line that is being developed is in itself a full BRT line. The only diffrence between ours and Clevelands is that Cleveland built theres in the median of the old road and as such has a better means of getting to point A to point B. Outside of that one small detail everything I have seen is the same thing.

[GRDadof3]

Well, as to answer your question about a linear devolopment. It could work provided. I would have to say that if a devoloper brings it up I am certian a few of the planners would go for it. Those that are unsure, I can talk to accordingly. The key thing is the planning commision has a lot of new work ahead of themselves with some new work. The key thing is that I think you have to understand that the BRT line that is being developed is in itself a full BRT line. The only diffrence between ours and Clevelands is that Cleveland built theres in the median of the old road and as such has a better means of getting to point A to point B. Outside of that one small detail everything I have seen is the same thing.

Not sure what you are saying here about linear development. Maybe you can clarify.

[John E]

I believe he meant liner, responding to my post:

aowwt,

Do you think a "liner parking ramp" like the one that is being built at 38 Commerce would work out there?

~John

[Veloise]

...Fisher Coachworks is opening a new facility in Livonia to build a new plug-in 40 foot long hybrid bus:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../812150409/1361

Here's a slightly more accurate article from my favorite newspaper.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008812160341

(DetSnooze, the former DRC site is now a big box mall and industrial park. No factory, yet.)

[John E]

New article on Rapid Growth Media:

Grand Rapids' proposed streetcar system could be rolling by 2012

~John

[Rizzo]

Public transit advocates and road builders lost the gas tax hike. They will try for another go around in January.

[Veloise]

Not good news for transit:

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ss...ieved_to_e.html

Yes, it's Amtrak, but still...

[walker]

Not good news for transit:

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ss...ieved_to_e.html

Yes, it's Amtrak, but still...

But still what? Was there any alternative mode of travel along the lakeshore Sunday night that was any better? I think I'd prefer fifteen hours on a warm train that night to a pile-up on the interstate.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/1...hicle_cras.html

The only question I had was why did Amtrak not wait in the Holland station for a new crew but your story answers it. CSX made them move the train off the single track. The CSX dispatchers by the way are in a bunker in sunny Jacksonville Florida.

[GRDadof3]

Not good news for transit:

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ss...ieved_to_e.html

Yes, it's Amtrak, but still...

I saw that and it was completely absurd to make those people stay on the train for that long. I would have been the guy who got off and walked to Holland.

I like all the cop out answers by the Amtrak official:

"Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari blamed the delays on weather and a federal law that doesn't allow train engineers and conductors to work longer than 12 hours."

"He said passengers wanting a refund could call Amtrak, although he wouldn't say whether they would get their money back."

"They are dealt with individually through customer relations," Magliari said of refund requests. "I imagine a range of options is given, including credit for future travel."

"I can't second-guess the dispatcher," Magliari said.

"I'm sure all modes (of transportation) have had longer delays," he said.

"I seem to recall (Amtrak) delays that have been more severe than this."

"We very much regret this occurring to our passengers," Magliari said. "However, they were safe and warm inside our train."

Yeah, it's nice in warm in Guantanamo Bay too. Forget about refunds, they'd be facing a lawsuit if I were held captive on their train overnight and treated the way these people were treated. How about renting a charter bus to get people home? How about giving people free food for making them stay on the train that long?

Sorry to rant, but I just find this completely unacceptable to do this from a customer service perspective, and then blame the whole thing on a set of federal "policies".

[Veloise]

IMHO, it's not great news for transit promoters as it supports the "I must drive MYSELF wherever I go" viewpoint.

On another forum I did some speculating. Call service provider, get them to triangulate me. (If cell towers can help catch wife-murdering perps, they can certainly find me and fellow users of my cell service provider.) Armed with that, establish a physical location, with an approximate address.

Then start calling...senators, reps, local officials, state police, FBI (the Amtrak personnel might have listened to them), the nearest Meijer. (Store directors love to help out when they can.) Order up some take-out chow and TP, similar to that groceries-to-go service, and be sure to let them know that the media is all over this.

Something suggests that the Amtrak spokesperson will soon be "spending more time with his family."

[GRDadof3]

Might be a silly question, but has anyone been to Dublin this past year and ridden on their new Tram System (streetcars)? We have family in Ireland and I hear Dublin is a fantastic up-and-coming city. I think it would be a great place to visit.

[walker]

Not good news for transit:

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ss...ieved_to_e.html

Yes, it's Amtrak, but still...

Via a WZZM link, here's Amtrak's response to MDOT about the situation that night and the chronology of events for that trip:

http://www.wzzm13.com/pdf/Pesce010209.pdf

[gvsusean]

I've been on the new tram in Ireland. it is very nice. Not as convenient as Amsterdam but nice nevertheless. Dublin is ok but not really the family place to go. I would go to London for more family stuff.

[Veloise]

Via a WZZM link, here's Amtrak's response to MDOT about the situation that night and the chronology of events for that trip:

http://www.wzzm13.com/pdf/Pesce010209.pdf

Fascinating.

On page 2, 1:40 am:

train crew must leave train to manually operate signals; CSX RR-XING signals are inoperable due to heavy snow. Federal and RR regs require that one crew member must stand at road crossings to warn motorists of passing train.

What?!?

This is Michigan. It has been snown to snow here in the winter. Installing signals which do not operate in heavy snow seems just a little short-sighted.

And which side of the tracks gets the crew member? (Wouldn't they want to deploy one for each side?)

[suydam]

Fascinating.

On page 2, 1:40 am:

train crew must leave train to manually operate signals; CSX RR-XING signals are inoperable due to heavy snow. Federal and RR regs require that one crew member must stand at road crossings to warn motorists of passing train.

What?!?

This is Michigan. It has been snown to snow here in the winter. Installing signals which do not operate in heavy snow seems just a little short-sighted.

And which side of the tracks gets the crew member? (Wouldn't they want to deploy one for each side?)

In defense of Amtrak.... it snows here in the winter, but what we experienced during that period right before Christmas was highly abnormal... it's not like Amtrak fell apart after a 3" dusting.

Also, those federal regulations are not the fault of Amtrak either.

It's a deplorable situation, but I think that timeline shows that it wasn't just incompetance on the part of Amtrak that lead to that situation.

The real issue is that our passenger trains in the US run with lesser priority, on the same rails as our freight trains. All the comparisons to Europe aside their passenger trains either run on dedicated rails, or have priority for passage.... and I once spent 11 hours delayed on a train in Spain. It happens there too from time to time.

[GRDadof3]

Via a WZZM link, here's Amtrak's response to MDOT about the situation that night and the chronology of events for that trip:

http://www.wzzm13.com/pdf/Pesce010209.pdf

At 5:10, the passengers were given the opportunity to detrain. Were they offered any kind of alternative mode of transportation? Were they told they'd be sitting in a train yard and not continuing on to Grand Rapids?

[Raildudes dad]

Fascinating.

On page 2, 1:40 am:

train crew must leave train to manually operate signals; CSX RR-XING signals are inoperable due to heavy snow. Federal and RR regs require that one crew member must stand at road crossings to warn motorists of passing train.

What?!?

This is Michigan. It has been snown to snow here in the winter. Installing signals which do not operate in heavy snow seems just a little short-sighted.

And which side of the tracks gets the crew member? (Wouldn't they want to deploy one for each side?)

It's my understanding the signal failure was an usual circumstance. Normally snow has no effect on them. A power failure usually puts them in battery mode flashing but no train. Yes Federal regs require the train to "stop & flag" a signalized crossing that is not operating. The train approaches the crossing and stops. The conductor must get off, wade thru the snow to the crossing. he lights a fusee and lays it in the road, stops any traffic and has the train pull onto the crossing and stops it so he can get back on. This is done at every signalized crossing and there's lots of them on that route. In addition, the CSX track side signals were out. The train is restricted to traveling at a speed that they can stop in 1/2 the distance they can see. It appears from the log, they were traveling about 15 mph due to visibility - that in its self makes for a long trip.

Unfortunately a lot of things went wrong on this trip (many outside of Amtak and the crew's control) and things snowballed into a 16 hour trip (I know bad pun ). Folks need to remember there were air travelers for up to 3 days at O'Hare and multicar pileups on the Interstates - wasn't a good time for any type of of travel.

[Rizzo]

Muskegon Chronicle says passenger rail, mass transit past due

[John E]

Great article, thank you very much, Rizzo!

~John

[Rizzo]

No problem John.

Also, check out this list compiled by WOODTV of metro area projects ready for funding under an Obama Administration. The top three projects on Muskegon County's list are transit related, while there isn't even a wish in Kent County. C'mon guys! I think its imperative that local transit advocates convene quickly, right now, to push for a solid second phase project to compliment the enhanced bus and streetcar projects.

[GRDadof3]

No problem John.

Also, check out this list compiled by WOODTV of metro area projects ready for funding under an Obama Administration. The top three projects on Muskegon County's list are transit related, while there isn't even a wish in Kent County. C'mon guys! I think its imperative that local transit advocates convene quickly, right now, to push for a solid second phase project to compliment the enhanced bus and streetcar projects.

What are you talking about? Kent County wants to build a bigger jail with that money.

[fotoman311]

No problem John.

Also, check out this list compiled by WOODTV of metro area projects ready for funding under an Obama Administration. The top three projects on Muskegon County's list are transit related, while there isn't even a wish in Kent County. C'mon guys! I think its imperative that local transit advocates convene quickly, right now, to push for a solid second phase project to compliment the enhanced bus and streetcar projects.

Perhaps we could buy some more hybrid buses?

[Raildudes dad]

It is my understanding that for transportation related projects, road, transit, air, the projects need to be in the current transportation improvement program for the respective Metropolitan Planning Organization (MPO) in Kent's case, Grand Valley Metro Council. That's the reason the transit projects most likely won't qualify. The other requirement is either a 90 days to actual contract or 180 days to contract. Since the local agencies will have to follow the same guidelines as current federally funded projects, that's not a lot of time to prepare and get the contract documents approved. You will see mostly resurfacing projects is the best guess at this time. There's absolutely nothing close to even being in writing as to what will be approved or $$$ amounts. It's a real wish list and guessing game at this point.