PROPOSED: WATERFRONT PARK

[Cotuit]

We still have some time before the city takes this park over.

According to the report on Channel 10 this evening, we have 6 years before this park is complete and the city has to start maintaining it.

[Cotuit]

There shouldn't be a design competition for the park, but for the surrounding neighborhoods!

But another commercial building close to the Point Street bridge would add some interest to the park and potentially some revenue that would pay for the maintenance of these new facilities. Maybe one or more of the proposals for the design of the park will notice this possibility and set aside a development pad or two.

I agree with Garris, the surrounding neighborhoods will be key to the success of this park. JDA needs to have it known what they would like for their neighborhood (I wish they would drop the canal because there are many other important issues facing the Jewel District and I feel like they are spinning their wheels by tenaciously holding onto this canal idea), and the neighborhood below the highway will be being developed from scratch, very important decisions in the coming years.

Also, the eastern approach needs to be thought out. Some of what Sasaki touched on is how people are going to move through the the city. What will the path be from the Washington Bridge, to India Point Park, to Wickenden, to the East Bank park (I'm coining the use of bank, rather than side), across the river to the west bank, through the new 'Northern Jewelry District/Southern Downcity' and off to the West Side of the city. What will the markers be that guide residents and visitors through that journey? An important touch stone on this journey will be the corner of Point/Wickenden and South Water, the eastern approach to the Point Street Bridge. The obvious path is to go over the Point Street Bridge, marking the alternate path to the pedestrian bridge will be important. I can see a building about the size of the dearly departed Goff's being that touchstone. It's a place to rest along that journey across the city, a punctuation mark where people can get their bearings and choose their path. And the ability to have a revenue generator is of course a plus. Designed right, I have no doubt that a marker can be made without a building, but a building with some sort of food (sit down restaurant, take-way, a combination) gives activity, as we see in Waterplace without GTECH and the condos, don't give people a reason to go someplace or stop there, and they won't go or stop.

[damus]

Right on both counts. We are hoping that J&W will hold a neighborhood design charrette in June or July to establish the design parameters for Chestnut Square.

Heh ... I've never heard of there being a "Chestnut Square". Does this exist already or is this going to have something to do with the 195 relocation project? Has there been any news/renderings of Chestnut Square? I assume they'd want to put some dorms and classrooms, but will there be ground floor retail or more of the usual from them? I'd like to see the school intertwine itself into the fabric of Providence so that you could be in the middle of the campus and not go to school there and still be in a decent retail area.

[Cotuit]

Heh ... I've never heard of there being a "Chestnut Square".

What would be Chesnut Square Circle currently sits under Route 195 between the intersection of Chestnut, Ship, and Clifford (where Restaurant Prov is) and the intersection of Chestnut and Friendship. It's probably still 6 years away, so there's no real concrete plans for how it will look yet.

See page 21 and 22 of this PDF from the Jewelry District Association. This is the Jewelry District plan from 1999. I don't know if members from the association would be shocked to find that their own plan has a riverfront park near Ship Street.

JDA calls it Chestnut Circle, and it's not a park in their 1999 plan. The RIDoT plans for the area call for a park.

[provid]

Now if we could only fill those lots with tall buildings....that would be so grand. I dig the park. It should become a city center for music etc ( with a park that size )

[damus]

Now if we could only fill those lots with tall buildings....that would be so grand. I dig the park. It should become a city center for music etc ( with a park that size )

The .pdf file Cotuit posted, the Jewelry District's plan, states that they will only build "medium density" buildings there. There seems to be too many parks for even my liking. I don't get the point of having a bunch of tiny parks all within a few blocks of each other. Why not make one big park? I'm starting to like the Waterfront park, especially since it includes that walkway to the East Side.

[runawayjim]

The .pdf file Cotuit posted, the Jewelry District's plan, states that they will only build "medium density" buildings there. There seems to be too many parks for even my liking. I don't get the point of having a bunch of tiny parks all within a few blocks of each other. Why not make one big park? I'm starting to like the Waterfront park, especially since it includes that walkway to the East Side.

i'm not sure super tall buildings would really fit in there... but taller than the existing buildings would be nice... having the taller buildings near the highways would make the city look pretty cool... but i don't think they should be much taller than our current tallest. personally, i don't like the look of cities with a bunch of tall buildings and then 1 or 2 outliers (like boston for instance... i think it looks really stupid with the financial district and then the john hancock building and the prudential not near anything else of any height).

[damus]

i'm not sure super tall buildings would really fit in there... but taller than the existing buildings would be nice... having the taller buildings near the highways would make the city look pretty cool... but i don't think they should be much taller than our current tallest. personally, i don't like the look of cities with a bunch of tall buildings and then 1 or 2 outliers (like boston for instance... i think it looks really stupid with the financial district and then the john hancock building and the prudential not near anything else of any height).

I wouldn't mind seeing some tall buildings built in those parking lots between the courthouse and the river. Hopefully a decade or two from now we'll be talking about putting the same type of medium density developments the Jewelry District is looking for in between Westminster and the Promenade on the west side. I don't think too many people would miss the majority of the houses that are located in that area especially if they're replaced with more urban developments.

I think the worst example of what you're talking about is Detroit... with that cluster of GM buildings off to the side. Looks awful to me.

[Cotuit]

We have been trying to get RIDOT to sell the development parcel on South Water St. where the helipad is located. The problem is that the state histoic preservation and heritage commission has placed some rather restrictive regulations that makes the parcel undevelopable.

Flying around in Live Local I think developing the helipad would be a good idea. It would mask the view of the brick blob behind it from people on the westbank of the river. This is an area where I'd been more than fine with some faux historical building(s). I don't know how big it would have to be to make it economically feesible, seems one floor of retail and two floors of residential should do it, the residential units I imagine would attract a high price.

Now if we could just get RISD to sell that parking lot on South Water we might actually have a real functional urban street running along the river, it'd make Garris happy at least.

[Cotuit]

I wouldn't mind seeing some tall buildings built in those parking lots between the courthouse and the river.

I think sout of Pine Street is fine be low-mid rise, this is where I want highrises: Live Local

Between Weybosset and Memorial at the end of Pine Street there's some holes. I'd like to see highrises stepping their way up toward the financial district along the river.

[Garris]

I'd like to see highrises stepping their way up toward the financial district along the river.

Agreed... Your labeled sites with heights looks like a perfect plan for that area, which is already quite dramatic but would be even more so with your additions.

I think developing the helipad would be a good idea. It would mask the view of the brick blob behind it from people on the westbank of the river. This is an area where I'd been more than fine with some faux historical building(s).

Also agreed...

...it'd make Garris happy at least.

Yes it would and, in the end, isn't that what really matters?

- Garris

[Cotuit]

Updated ProJo article:

A park for Providence [ProJo.com]

[markOne]

I think sout of Pine Street is fine be low-mid rise, this is where I want highrises: Live Local

Between Weybosset and Memorial at the end of Pine Street there's some holes. I'd like to see highrises stepping their way up toward the financial district along the river.

I agree.

I would also like to see some of the space between the Weston and the Financial District filled in. The Biltmore is a good start (love the lit sign) but it needs a little more help to bridge the gap.

Stealing one of Garris' night shots to illustrate what I mean...

To the left of the Biltmore in the above picture, I would say the parking lot next to the Strand bounded by Washington,Mathewson,Fountian, and Clemance Streets would be a decent place for a 250+ building. Biltmore is 220’ and the Weston 2 is 360’.

To the right I looks like Grants Block would also help that transition if they are still planning on a 239’ tower, and the 235' Waterplace towers will add depth.

note: all heights courtesy of Urban Plannet.

[edited because even with spellchcek I can't spell]

[markOne]

Regarding the actual topic of this thread

[damus]

I think sout of Pine Street is fine be low-mid rise, this is where I want highrises: Live Local

Between Weybosset and Memorial at the end of Pine Street there's some holes. I'd like to see highrises stepping their way up toward the financial district along the river.

Heh.. that's the area of downcity where I think they have some of the best pieces to start with on that side of the river (I also think the area around where Westminster meets Empire has a couple really nice buildings). I used to walk through it multiple times a week on the way to the gym at Davol Square. Some of the buildings on some of the side steets are less than perfect, but there are great, great pieces. The McFadden's building, that isolated block of buildings on Memorial Blvd., some of the mid-rises on Weybosset near the Arcade, and the one square in Providence where you look around and could swear you were in a big city... The Arcade Garage and that other garage across from it on Pine Street really take away some of the potential. I wish they'd start building parking garages at least with store fronts abutting major roads...

Mark: I think that park could be a great venue for events such as what you've mentioned. They already occasionally close down the area in front of the Turk's Head building for free events, why not have those somewhere where they don't detour traffic?

[Cotuit]

They already occasionally close down the area in front of the Turk's Head building for free events, why not have those somewhere where they don't detour traffic?

The WaterFire ballroom would be a great use of the new park.

[Cotuit]

I had my lunch down at Dyer Street Landing again today and took some photos. This area is mostly to the north of the proposed westbank park.

The current Providence River Bridge, proposal would reuse it's piers for a pedestrian bridge. I think the width of the piers could prove to be very interesting. There could be little gathering areas with benches and sculptures and such along the bridge. I'm actually of the opinion that the bridge deserves it's own design competition.

Looking north, the area I'm standing at would be part of the proposed park. The road to the left is northbound Dyer Street and the ramp from Route 195 eastbound.

Looking across the river at the brick blob I'd be all in favor of hiding by building something on the river side of South Water Street. The helipad is in the center of the dock area.

More of the brick blob, the historic buildings to the left are set back from South Water Street with a large parking lot between them and the street. The lot is currently owned by RISD and operated by Metropark.

Looking north again, this area is north of the proposed park. You can see some people in this photo, I wouldn't categorize it as crowded, but there were a lot of people around while I was eating lunch, suits, construction workers, pairs of women power walking... It's not as full of people as Memorial Park is at lunch time, but it's getting there.

From the boat landing looking south.

Ah gee, it was all looking so nice. One would think they were in Waterplace all of a sudden.

Lovely. The nice thing is that people are actually using the trash cans, the only litter apparent in the park is around the overflowing trash bins. There are a number of trash bins, they simply aren't being emptied enough.

This and a few other signs were put up last week. This one speaks of Route 195 in the past tense, and the new Providence River Bridge in the present tense.

[runawayjim]

Regarding the actual topic of this thread

[Dan]

Cotuit, that 2nd shot is great! I had no idea how attractive that riverwalk turned out, what nice views!

I agree that the place to build tall is the surface parking near Memorial at the south end of the Financial District. Too bad we don't have three developers with proposals sniffing around down there.

The Westin II should help define the skyline to the west, but I think we're a long way from a tower in the Promenade area. Once the Westin II is up, there will be a big gap in the skyline (Biltmore area) which could use a signature tower. I'm pretty sure anything tall built in that spot would be the most visible of any downtown tower, giving it a commanding presence.

[Carter711]

The current Providence River Bridge, proposal would reuse it's piers for a pedestrian bridge. I think the width of the piers could prove to be very interesting. There could be little gathering areas with benches and sculptures and such along the bridge. I'm actually of the opinion that the bridge deserves it's own design competition.

Yes! A well designed pedestrian bridge could be as much of a draw for this area as the park, and serve as a kind of landmark for the city. Though I do think the current bridge supports look too high for a pedestrian bridge.

A couple of my favorites, coincidentally both named the same thing

Millenium Bridge, London

Millenium Bridge, Newcastle, UK

[Recchia]

Cotuit, some of your pics are so clear they almost look like computer renderings.

[Frankie811]

The WaterFire ballroom would be a great use of the new park.

I disagree with you sir. You can't beat the ambience of the current ballroom setting in the financial district, not to mention the acoustics from the surrounding buildings.

[Jerry2]

I disagree with you sir. You can't beat the ambience of the current ballroom setting in the financial district, not to mention the acoustics from the surrounding buildings.

This is going to be the biggest waste of tax dollars this city has seen in awhile. Even if this park can obtain federal funds or from private donations, it is the absolute worst way to develop 33 acres of prime real estate. The aesthetics of a riverfront park are pleasing, but who will use this park? Providence has already demonstrated that it cannot handle basic maintenance in the parks it already maintains...or doesn't for that matter. Graffiti and overflowing trashbins spewing trash in the river and all over the mulch is disgusting and unacceptable.Waterplace is disgusting! It's embarrassing to look in the water @ low tide and see carriages, tires, and plastic bags. There needs to be some collaboration to get Waterplace and the extended riverwalk maintained? Is there anybody working on this? Thom, are you out there? Also, Thom, I'm very interested in finding out if the newly opened real estate from the 195 relo has been marketed to developers from outside the area? Has it been touted to companies to potentially construct new headquarters? Or is the city just going to give it all to non-profits and build a huge, un-maintained, white elephant park?

Signed..

Jerry...frustrated Providence taxpayer

[Cotuit]

it is the absolute worst way to develop 33 acres of prime real estate.

It's not 33 acres, it's 8.

[Jerry2]

It's not 33 acres, it's 8.

The entire 195 relocation project is freeing up 33 acres of land. That's downtown, Fox Point, and the Jewelry District..