Will Columbia replace Charleston as the urban capital of SC?

[Spartan]

The title of this thread says it all.... with the new USC-Guignard plan, will Columbia replace Charleston as the urban capital of SC?

I think that its possible. Take into consideration all of the other developments that the USC plan will spur in other parts of town- Main St, Arsenal Hill, Cayce, West Columbia, Olympia....

[Pillsbury]

Congratulations to Columbia! This project seems massive. I think it will do for Columbia what the Beltway is predicted to do for Atlanta.

[sonofaque86]

I think it will...This is going to be huge..

[krazeeboi]

You know, it will really be neck and neck--if all of the plans materialize. I'd prefer to see it as Charleston remaining the traditional urban capital of SC and Columbia becoming the modern urban capital of SC.

[UrbanSoutherner]

I think Columbia has real potential to be a premier urban spot in SC. The original grid is rather large and expansive. If all of the planned projects really materialize (a big "if" to be sure), it will be quite a urban place. Charleston is a little more linear in scope and redevelopments are somewhat limited by the historic resources in place. You could extend it up into North Charleston through the Neck, but that gets rather linear. And Greenville has a great downtown, but it is not a large footprint in terms of the urban grid before you get into neighborhoods. Columbia has the original city grid of 400 blocks (20 by 20) with a lot of land for redevelopment. The potential is rather great if it can ever be truly realized. In other words, I think Columbia has the larger urban infrastructure so to speak.

[Charleston native]

It's hard to tell for me. I think that with all of these Cola projects, the DT area will become much more urban, but with the Noisette and Magnolia projects in my hometown really starting to materialize, Chas will still provide some stiff competition. Krazee may be right; it will probably be neck-and-neck. There is one thing Cola and Chas need to work on as they become more urban: streetscaping. Cola might end up getting the advantage if the mental hospital campus is transformed.

[803metlife]

I think Columbia will be the most dense and remain at the top. There's a awful lot of high dense residental develop in columbia's downtown core. Columbia's definitely in a transitional stage!!!

[krazeeboi]

Columbia REALLY has its work cut out for it to top Charleston in density, at least downtown. But who's to say what will happen in 20 years or so?

[The_sandlapper]

I think Columbia will be the most dense and remain at the top. There's a awful lot of high dense residental develop in columbia's downtown core. Columbia's definitely in a transitional stage!!!

It is definately in a transitional phase! I still think it's funny to see people comment on how "Columbia doesn't have anything going for it", or "how it's not growing", or "it will never be as big as ______". Yet with all the cornball naysayers even the ones at home, Columbia has been quietly building up its ball of steam, and trudging through the crap. Like I said two years ago when I first began posting here the city is just now begining to realized the potential of the area and act on it!

[monsoon]

Well we have discussed this before, Charleston's problem is that it's density is actually going down as gentrification is driving people out of the pennisula. 20 years from now I expect that it will look much as it does today. While there is a huge amount of growth in the Charleston area, almost 100% of it is suburban in nature.

So really this question depends upon what Columbia does in the next 20 years.

[sonofaque86]

Yeah, Charleston has alot of suburban growth in the city...Don't think it's going to get that much more urban as Columbia is setting itself up for...But Columbia is definately taking a huge leap forward, so we'll see!

[waccamatt]

You know, it will really be neck and neck--if all of the plans materialize. I'd prefer to see it as Charleston remaining the traditional urban capital of SC and Columbia becoming the modern urban capital of SC.

Krazee should run for office; he is so diplomatic.

[Doug L]

I attended the presentation of the Innovista master plan Thursday. What a beautiful thing this could be for Columbia and the midlands. It certainly appears that the planners have thought of everything from parking and traffic flow to pedestrians and the conveniences for people.

Just to give you an idea of the scope of this plan, Just the proposed park alone along the river makes Charleston's Waterfront Park and development look like a sliver. The plan is considerably larger than similar projects in large cities like Indianapolis and Columbus, OH.

I am soooooooo excited.......

PS....Columbia is already larger in both area and population than Charleston. Although, I think the Chas. metropolitan area may be slightly larger than Columbia's. Columbia is already giving Chas. a run for its money!

[Spartan]

Charleston will certainly remain an important urban center (I don't buy the arguement that it isn't just becuase of gentrification... but that is for another thread).... I think Columbia can pull it off if it does things right.

I think its important to recognize that while Charleston amy not have a large urban park, that doesn't mean that it detracts from the city. Charleston has come a long way, and Columbia could never hope to duplicate that. Columbia's plan will allow the city to be uniquely Columbia

With regards to traffic flow, what will they do? Will they implement one way streets?

[krazeeboi]

Krazee should run for office; he is so diplomatic.

Hey, I'm working on it.

Charleston has more history on its side, which makes for a great sense of place--plus all of its open spaces aren't concentrated into just regular parks; the city also has pocket parks and squares. As it regards metro area populations, Columbia has about 100K more in its metro population than Charleston.

Let's just see what the next few years bring.

[CorgiMatt]

Charleston will certainly remain an important urban center (I don't buy the arguement that it isn't just becuase of gentrification... but that is for another thread).... I think Columbia can pull it off if it does things right.

I think its important to recognize that while Charleston amy not have a large urban park, that doesn't mean that it detracts from the city. Charleston has come a long way, and Columbia could never hope to duplicate that. Columbia's plan will allow the city to be uniquely Columbia

With regards to traffic flow, what will they do? Will they implement one way streets?

Actually, at the unveiling they did a side-by-side scale comparison between Columbia's planned riverfront park and Charleston's, and Columbia's is 8 times larger. In Charleston a major portion of the expense of building the park was breaking up the asphalt that was there and driving pillars or whatever you call them into the marsh to support the park, not to mention the cost of the land there. In Columbia the land is being donated by the Guinyards and there's no asphalt to break up and no need for the pillars or whatever you call them.

[vicupstate]

http://www.charlestoncity.info/shared/docs...n_estimates.pdf

The population loss on the Charleston peninsula has stopped, and is now increasing.

As far as density goes, don't forget that a lot of the land in Innovista is offices, classrooms, and park space, it's not going to be all residential. Plus the baseball field will take a decent chunk of space, along with the existing convention center and Colonial Center.

There is also no large-scale PROVEN MARKET for these residential units. Between Canalside, the Kline project, Bull Street and now Innovista, the depth and breadth of the market is going to be determined. How fast or even if all of these will be built, is dependent on that.

Given the extreme width of Columbia's streets, it makes no sense to one-way any of them, in fact there has been talk of two-waying Taylor and Hampton, which is a great idea in my mind.

[CorgiMatt]

At the corner of Park and Pendleton they now have a color rendering of the Hilton Hotel parking garage that is under construction. It is going to be the most beautiful parking lot in the United States I am certain. It will be elegantly and exquisitely gorgeous. After sitting there and blocking traffic looking at the rendering, proceed slowly on down to Lincoln and take in the sight of the convention center, which will compliment the garage so very tastefully. Turn right onto Lincoln and slowly take in the train station district. As you cross Gervais notice the blue architectural review board notice on the white building at Gervais and Lincoln directly across from Liberty Tap Room. They are going to do exterior renovations to that building. Drive on down and turn left onto Lady Street, but make sure to look to your left before turning because cars can now drive all the way from Huger to Assembly and beyond on Lady. At Renaissance Plaza two new businesses are coming soon: Polished Presence and Lady of Grace Salon. American Apparel and Wild Wings continue to renovate their future homes, and there is a blue architectural design board sign in front of the former Hiller Hardware building. Turn around at Renaissance Plaza and drive back up Lady Street for effect. Awesome. The streetscaping has brought a blighted strip up to urban standards with turn-of-the-century buildings lining the sidewalks all the way up to Park. At Lincoln and Lady and on up past the old Hinson Feed and Seed building where City Art is, the relationship between the buildings, greenery, sidewalks (and streets) is so very alluring. I suggest doing this early in the morning before the sun creates sharp contrasts between glare and shade, in order to see the effect with full color saturation.

[vicupstate]

I am sure the Guinyards are not donating there land. They are on board will selling it to USC or the city, but I haven't seen anything about donating the land, and no one gives away something that valuable.

[waccamatt]

The Guignards are partners in the development of which their land is a part. They are not "selling" it, per se, that is their contribution to the overall project, which they will see profit from.

[CorgiMatt]

I am sure the Guinyards are not donating there land. They are on board will selling it to USC or the city, but I haven't seen anything about donating the land, and no one gives away something that valuable.

Yes they are.

[Doug L]

I am sure the Guinyards are not donating there land. They are on board will selling it to USC or the city, but I haven't seen anything about donating the land, and no one gives away something that valuable.

Unless I have gone completely senile and/or my ears are altering sounds before delivering them to my brain, the Guignards will DONATE the land for the park with assurances that the park will be kept maintained and secure.

I am certain that they will make a pretty penny on the balance of the land they own!

[Matt83USC]

Unless I have gone completely senile and/or my ears are altering sounds before delivering them to my brain, the Guignards will DONATE the land for the park with assurances that the park will be kept maintained and secure.

I am certain that they will make a pretty penny on the balance of the land they own!

That's correct. The 50 acres for the park is bordered by many acres that the family is developing. They'll see a great tax benefit in donating the land for the park, which will offset the ridiculous amount of money they'll make for developing/redeveloping the surrounding land. Its a win-win for everyone involved, and since its USC and not the city, we might have a chance of seeing this happen in the next 10 years

[vicupstate]

I was referring to the entire Guinyard tract, but I wasn't aware that they were making any donation. Thanks for the correction.

[Spartan]

I wonder what the city's role in this is? I mean, this stuff will ahve to happen wiht private contractors, so they will ahve to conform to the city's code. Surely they have some say in what is happening.