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New Hotel for Downtown Greenville


g-man430

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That is what I have been "preaching" for a long time now. Greenville has no definitive skyline - no real signature tower to set it apart from dozens of other cities across the nation. I totally agree with you, RT. With all of these additions, Greenville would look and feel more worthy of its given status as an urban role model. But only if the new buildings are completely unique and attractive. :thumbsup:

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I kind of like the look of city hall.

So do I. It definitely looks seventy's ish, but I think it is a good time period building. The only part I don't like is the out of place off-white elevator shaft on the side (the landmark has one of these too). This must have been some kind of "new concept" back in the 60s/70's, but I have never liked them. Atlanta has a building that looks a lot like our city hall, but it is about 4 or 5 times taller. There are many buildings DT that I like far less than city hall (the landmark for one).

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So do I. It definitely looks seventy's ish, but I think it is a good time period building. The only part I don't like is the out of place off-white elevator shaft on the side (the landmark has one of these too). This must have been some kind of "new concept" back in the 60s/70's, but I have never liked them. Atlanta has a building that looks a lot like our city hall, but it is about 4 or 5 times taller. There are many buildings DT that I like far less than city hall (the landmark for one).

The elevator shafts help the building blend more cohesively with the Court house and Symphony Center... Otherwise there would be a much greater clash... if there's even a clash now...?

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That is what I have been "preaching" for a long time now. Greenville has no definitive skyline - no real signature tower to set it apart from dozens of other cities across the nation. I totally agree with you, RT. With all of these additions, Greenville would look and feel more worthy of its given status as an urban role model. But only if the new buildings are completely unique and attractive. :thumbsup:
If you want a signature skyline, you need to find two businessmen who want to make Greenville the turf of choice for their pissing contest. Seriously. That's how Charlotte's skyline exploded. I used to have an office atop one of Charlotte's signature towers, across the hall from a prominent downtown club. I would take clients and guests there as time passed on and had to look up at the buildings around me and I explained to them, one by one, how each was built. And, in the end, it really boils down to this: a battle between Hugh McCall (NationsBank) and Ed Crutchfield (First Union) to lay claim to the city's largest phallic symbol. Without that competition and back-and-forth ("in-and-out" doesn't really work here, even though it would help extend the metaphor), my office wouldn't have become dwarfed so fast and by so many other buildings. I can't do it justice here, but if you took a picture of the Charlotte skyline and using PowerPoint added each new tower in chronological order with the name of the lead builder/financer/anchor tenant, you'd see it basically was McCall, Crutchfield, McCall, Crutchfield...

So, the bad news for you is that Mack Whittle is going horizontal near The Point and ICAR, leaving you with two -- not one -- vacancies for the "mine is bigger than yours" war that it's going to take to create the kind of skyline you're looking for.

In all honesty, I think the pendulum is swinging against you anyway as sprawling real estate is where those people are looking to leave their signatures/marks. I agree, it would be cool to have some impressive structures downtown, but I think it's a pretty low priority if you create a list of changes needed to make Greenville a city of excellence.

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It wouldn't necessarily take two contestants.

If only we had one contestant in Greenville and Columbia had one contestant, I'm sure the results would be similar; however, there would surely be some latency in skyline enhancement introduced due to the distance between the two nodes, er, uh, cities and the low bandwidth interconnect, er, uh, interstate that ties the two together.

(i.e. I think that a similar contest could brew between Greenville and Columbia for whomever has the most iconic building/skyline, if the right players were in place in each city.)

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Let's note that although Greenville's skyline is minimal, downtown Greenville has a larger share of Greenville's office space than uptown Charlotte has of Charlotte's- I think about 50% for Greenville vs. about 38% for Charlotte. That shows just how small Greenville's office market is and thus how small the pool of companies with white-collar jobs in Greenville is. We need to attract more companies with white-collar jobs to Greenville. That would help.

The posts re: needing corporate competition to create downtown buildings are right on point. We need more companies to come to Greenville, but especially companies committed to making a better downtown.

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I think that a similar contest could brew between Greenville and Columbia for whomever has the most iconic building/skyline, if the right players were in place in each city.
Of course this means that you get half as many buildings and there's another city that's keeping pace with you -- which would be nice and all, but not a distinguishing feature that sets Greenville apart.

Notwithstanding my McCall-Crutchfield competition example, a lot of what Charlotte does is with an eye toward Atlanta. It's not really a competition because Atlanta isn't quite as attentive to Charlotte as Charlotte is to Atlanta, but it is one way Charlotte reaches high.

That's another reason why I hope we don't look to Columbia for our motivation and inspiration. While Charlotte is reaching for something in the distance ahead, we'd be reacting to a chihuahua nipping at our heels. One is a dream, the other is a fear-borne response. So I hope the Columbia competition doesn't pan out...though I'm not saying your scenario is impossible or unlikely. I just hope that's not the way it happens.

Also, I should point out that the one building in Charlotte that sets that city apart is not a skyscraper and it's not particularly tall. It's their NFL football stadium. Landing that arena there helped cement (or at least it affirmed) Charlotte's position as a Southeastern hub more than any skyscraper has done for that city. The fact that it was largely done through private funding and the seat licenses was a huge coup.

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That shows just how small Greenville's office market is and thus how small the pool of companies with white-collar jobs in Greenville is. We need to attract more companies with white-collar jobs to Greenville. That would help.
One word: Airport

Okay, that was too good to be true. Some more words: Airports are the Interstate highways of the second half of the 20th century. If you're not hooked up, you're in bad shape in terms of growth and economic prosperity. You don't establish your claim to a solid airport within the next decade -- and that means making it more than just a...well, the kind of thing we've got here with flights to 6 cities or something like that -- you're unofficially a backwater town for the second half of this century.

We're reliant on our Interstate connection and the fact that we do have an airport facility with commercial flights. But expanded service is key to the white collar jobs. Of course they're the key to expanded service. One of the biggest coups we could get would be attracting a carrier that wanted to make Greenville a hub for air travel, even if it's a regional airline.

Oops...to get back on topic: that would also bring in more hotel investment. (I tried.)

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It wouldn't necessarily take two contestants.

If only we had one contestant in Greenville and Columbia had one contestant, I'm sure the results would be similar; however, there would surely be some latency in skyline enhancement introduced due to the distance between the two nodes, er, uh, cities and the low bandwidth interconnect, er, uh, interstate that ties the two together.

(i.e. I think that a similar contest could brew between Greenville and Columbia for whomever has the most iconic building/skyline, if the right players were in place in each city.)

Actually, a competition of this nature between Cola and Gville existed from the 60's until the '80's. It pretty much ended once all the banks merged into out-of-state banks. The state's biggest banks like Banker's Trust, C&S, etc. were many of the major players in the competition.

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That's another reason why I hope we don't look to Columbia for our motivation and inspiration. While Charlotte is reaching for something in the distance ahead, we'd be reacting to a chihuahua nipping at our heels. One is a dream, the other is a fear-borne response. So I hope the Columbia competition doesn't pan out...though I'm not saying your scenario is impossible or unlikely. I just hope that's not the way it happens.

I don't think RT is saying that Greenville should look to Columbia as "motivation and inspiration" as far as a skyline is concerned, but rather that if the right people were in place in both cities, there could be something of an arms race between the two. But at this point, Columbia is probably the closest city in terms of skyline that Greenville could hope to "emulate" (for lack of a better term), in that the skyline hasn't gotten so big that catching up is out of the question (e.g., Charlotte).

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I personally don't want Greenville to emulate Columbia in any way, regarding its skyline. I like to see highrises, but what Greenville needs (as does Columbia) is a couple of totally unique designs to set the skyline apart from the dozens of standard small cities across the nation. Greenville can't be touched on the street-level, but from a distance, it leaves much to be desired. I am proud of the city for what it has become on many different levels, but this is one area of development we have been lacking for well over a decade now.

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One word: Airport

Okay, that was too good to be true. Some more words: Airports are the Interstate highways of the second half of the 20th century. If you're not hooked up, you're in bad shape in terms of growth and economic prosperity. You don't establish your claim to a solid airport within the next decade -- and that means making it more than just a...well, the kind of thing we've got here with flights to 6 cities or something like that -- you're unofficially a backwater town for the second half of this century.

We're reliant on our Interstate connection and the fact that we do have an airport facility with commercial flights. But expanded service is key to the white collar jobs. Of course they're the key to expanded service. One of the biggest coups we could get would be attracting a carrier that wanted to make Greenville a hub for air travel, even if it's a regional airline.

Oops...to get back on topic: that would also bring in more hotel investment. (I tried.)

Good point. One thing we could focus on in the short run is getting Jet Blue or another low-cost carrier to come to GSP, as fares, at least to NYC, are so high from GSP that they might factor into companies' relocation plans. For the hub-and-spoke airlines, US Airways, Delta and Airtran already have hubs nearby, but there are other airlines. Not sure how much weight airlines put on local population size and demographics when planning a hub, but at least Charlotte doesn't get much local O&D traffic for US Airways.

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My guess us that the South Financial HQ will involve alot of air traffic.

Downtown isn't that much farther and it's an easy drive. UGH! When I think of what could have been, it makes me sick! oh well... just more people on Woodruff Rd :sick: .

It's been a while now... we should be hearing something... seeing some renderings or something soon about the City Hall Plaza!!!

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I personally don't want Greenville to emulate Columbia in any way, regarding its skyline.

I'm not surprised to see you say that, since you ranked Greensboro's skyline ahead of Columbia's. :blink:

It would be nice to see Greenville get some of the density Columbia enjoys in its skyline. But I do agree about the signature highrises for both cities. However, it is the "average, ho-hum" towers that make the signature towers stand out. I'd prefer to see Greenville get some density and a little more height under its belt first (not unlike Columbia's) before a truly signature tower is proposed; then hopefully it can be at such a height as to not totally dwarf all of the other towers around it (as Signature tower will do in Nashville, if built), while yet making a statement against the backdrop.

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I do indeed view Greensboro's skyline as more interesting than Columbia's. I could care less about the density of Columbia's skyline in relation to Greenville's. That will inevitably change, but I'd much prefer a unique skyline than the extremely simplistic one in the midlands and the Upstate.

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I do indeed view Greensboro's skyline as more interesting than Columbia's. I could care less about the density of Columbia's skyline in relation to Greenville's. That will inevitably change, but I'd much prefer a unique skyline than the extremely simplistic one in the midlands and the Upstate.

We're all entitled to our opinions on skylines; it's a very subjective thing. While I like Greensboro as a city, its skyline leaves much to be desired (it really only has 4 or 5 towers to boast about, and they're nothing special really, from a skyline point of view).

And understand I'm not trying to make this into a "Greenville's skyline should be more like Columbia's" type of thing--I'd get shot over here for even suggesting such a thing. However, Greenville should at least have a denser skyline that what it currently has, even if not yet getting the height or signature tower(s). Density does wonders in that regard; one need look no further than Richmond's skyline. It doesn't have much height or a signature tower, but it's pretty awesome, even with its boxy towers--"simplistic," as you might call it.

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Is their a Radisson in out market yet?

No, the only one in the upstate is in Spartanburg (the old Wilson World hotel off of the I-85 business loop. I am not a big fan of Radisson. They can be okay, but their quality varies and they seem to charge more than they should. I would much prefer Sheraton, Marriott, Wyndham, or Hilton at the City Hall Plaza site.

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I didn't realize until today chatting with someone, that the rooms are under renovation at the Hyatt. :thumbsup: Great hotel, but it's rooms were showing there age. Anyway, complete room renovations....new contemporary furniture, "The Grand Bed", new carpet, drapes, etc. :thumbsup:

Great to see Hyatt committed to Greenville as we are one of only two NC and SC locations, the other being Charlotte.

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