New Hotel for Downtown Greenville

[mallguy]

Mixed use could just be a Hotel with some condos, but I am sure it would include retail, but it doesn't have to. I think part of the reason space is available in the other mixed use projects is becuase it is off main, though Wachovia still has a space on Main. It takes time, but the space will fill.

These vacant retail spaces are why Gville city leaders need to be pursuing another retail-type anchor, such as another small department store or an IMAX theater or the like for downtown. That would help draw more traffic that smaller stores could feed off of. When I was downtown on Saturday, I walked through some of thost parking lots on the east side of downtown and thought of how nice they would look covered with nice retailers and the like.

[vicupstate]

Greenvilleguy and mallguy both make excellent points. It's become rather obvious that retail off of Main can be a struggle. Another anchor retail store is needed. There was talk of a Borders at the Main and Washington vacant building at one time. In time something will come.

[vicupstate]

I walked around the City Hall Plaza area yesterday, and had a thought. What if the city sold not only the Plaza, but City Hall too.

Pros:

** The city could get it's street level council chambers

** The Plaza parcel would be more valuable with the City Hall included. A very large and impacting project could go there.

** Assuming that City Hall would be razed or drastically altered, Greenville's would lose one of it's worst examples of crappy 1970's architecture.

** This would give Gville to opportunity to build a landmark iconic City Hall. One befitting the city's recent progress. Downtown continually improves, but that building gets uglier with age. An Old City Hall replica could still be done, just on a different site.

** The new city hall building could be a symbol of the city itself, much the way Asheville's is.

** The current City Hall is on very valuable land that would add significantly to the tax base.

** The new City Hall could be sited in such a place that it would spur further revitialization.

As to that last point, it could be the anchor of the Falls & Broad building that didn't make it off the drawing board. Or it could eliminate the vacant block across from the County courthouse. It could also go to the West Washington St. Any other location ideas ?

** TIF revenues from the project that replaces the current City Hall could help pay for the new one.

Cons:

** Building new would be costier than just standing put.

** A new City Hall would be a luxury, not a necessity.

Thoughts, opinions, missed "pros/cons"? Other ideas for a new City Hall location?

[mallguy]

Other thoughts: county government should sell County Square in conjunction with a redevelopment of City Hall and should combine office space with city government in a new, nice building, paid for in part by proceeds from the sales of City Hall and County Square.

Perhaps one of those parking lots (maybe the one next to the Hot Dog King) could be used for the new government building, given that it is still vacant despite announcements of activity.

[TREY]

So far, I don't think Greenville is having very much luck with mixed use. The retail level in the Bookends is empty, Wachovia Place has had a vacant spot for well over a year, and the only retail/restaurant that has been named for Riverplace is the Grape, and the city has been giving them a hard time from the beginning. The only development making any progress is Poinsett Corners and they still have available space all the way down Broad Street and most of River Street. I wonder if these developments are offering any incentives to fill these spots???

There are slowly filling up. Up fitting on two more units in Poinsett Corners and some of the retail space in the bookends started in the last couple of weeks. It has been disappointingly slow but hopefully McBee station will help anchor more retail space.

[tr2greenville]

Other thoughts: county government should sell County Square

Actually, I think AFRT out of Philadelphia owns County Square and leases it to the county. Anybody know if that's correct?

[btoy]

I kind of like the look of city hall.

[goodbye]

The City wants to renovate the exterior of City Hall if no solid plans to move elsewhere are created.

Another thought I have for possible hotel locations would be in a 15-20 story Main@McBee (obviously taller than originally designed). The street-level retail would remain, while class A office space could still be located above the hotel. Condos could even be included on top, as an incentive. The location on beautiful Main Street is as close to perfection as anyone could possibly desire.

[mallguy]

Actually, I think AFRT out of Philadelphia owns County Square and leases it to the county. Anybody know if that's correct?

What is AFRT- American Federation of Retired Teachers? I will look into this. I remember when the mall closed and was acquired by the county (?), in the late '80s.

[vicupstate]

Other thoughts: county government should sell County Square in conjunction with a redevelopment of City Hall and should combine office space with city government in a new, nice building, paid for in part by proceeds from the sales of City Hall and County Square.

Perhaps one of those parking lots (maybe the one next to the Hot Dog King) could be used for the new government building, given that it is still vacant despite announcements of activity.

I'm all for your idea. I just think our County Council isn't progressive enough to see the value of it. Plus, they hate the city too.

I find it hard to believe that the County doesn't own County Square. I would love it if that were true though. Of course, the County might have a 99 year lease or something.

EDIT: According to the County's GIS website, the County owns it.

[tr2greenville]

What is AFRT- American Federation of Retired Teachers? I will look into this. I remember when the mall closed and was acquired by the county (?), in the late '80s.

American Financial Realty Trust. I was told they owned that property currently, but after doing some looking, I don't believe it's true.

[mallguy]

That was an interesting tip; I looked on the GIS website as well and County Square is dirt cheap- surely a developer could buy it for not much (after all, it's class B or C office space, right? I haven't been inside since it was in the process of being converted from a mall, when the interior mall part was still there) and make a good profit.

[vicupstate]

That was an interesting tip; I looked on the GIS website as well and County Square is dirt cheap- surely a developer could buy it for not much (after all, it's class B or C office space, right? I haven't been inside since it was in the process of being converted from a mall, when the interior mall part was still there) and make a good profit.

Huh? Are you saying since the County got it for a small price in the '80's that they would be willing to sell to a developer at a reasonable price? I'm sure they would want full market value, which would be high, given the size of the site, traffic counts and surroundings (views, proximity to DT, etc.).

[mallguy]

Huh? Are you saying since the County got it for a small price in the '80's that they would be willing to sell to a developer at a reasonable price? I'm sure they would want full market value, which would be high, given the size of the site, traffic counts and surroundings (views, proximity to DT, etc.).

No, I'm saying that based on the county's own valuation of the property based on the GIS website it's not worth much. I'd guess that the land is valuable, if any part of that property is, but the building itself- a dead mall '60s mall resurrected as cheap office space- wouldn't be worth much, as it would probably have to be demolished for any kind of redevelopment. I don't see the spot as being a good retail-only use (look what happened when that was tried) but perhaps a mixed-use development could work.

[gs3]

Westin does well here, and it's the top end of the chain (other than W or St. Regis). I keep hearing Sheraton wants another property in Greenville other than the Westin Poinsett. They have been seriously looking at several sites for either a Four Points or Sheraton. I'd bet my money the new hotel will be one of these hotels from the Sheraton chain that's not currently represented here.

[RestedTraveler]

Well you know I don't post alot. But what about a DoubleTree. Its a full service hotel and the only other one that is close to Greenville is Asheville.

That's not a bad thought, actually. Perhaps something with a "grand theme?" I wonder if Richard Kessler has been in town.

[Greenville]

I would prefer a regular Sheraton downtown (especially at that location). Four Points seems to be of lower quality than the regular Sheraton hotels. Regardless, it should be nice since it will be NEW!

I think a new 3-star type hotel downtown makes more sense than getting another 4-star on the level of a Westin. The market can definitely bear something like a Sheraton or Hilton, but I would be shocked if it were a hotel as nice as W hotel (would be great, though, for both Westin brands to be only a few buildings apart!).

EDIT: I forgot that Sheraton is also under the Starwood hotels umbrella, along with Westin, W hotels, Four Points, Le Meridien, and St. Regis.

[tablrock]

i think the city should court SIR DONALD TRUMP for his next hotel venture.

[gs3]

I heard today the hotel will be a high rise Motel 6 to compliment the Piggly Wiggly.

[goodbye]

Yep. I'm sick of the Piggly Wiggly talk.

Rest assured that whatever eventually goes on that property will be impressive at any size/height - though I'd prefer part of it to rise at least 10 stories.

[GvilleSC]

Yep. I'm sick of the Piggly Wiggly talk.

Rest assured that whatever eventually goes on that property will be impressive at any size/height - though I'd prefer part of it to rise at least 10 stories.

Definitely atleast 10 stories. that way the South Main height will be extended...

[mallguy]

Out of curiosity, who was in Greenville when the last round of BIG downtown developments (before the '90s boom) took place: the Daniel/BB&T/whatever it's called building in the '60s, the Hyatt in the early '80s and Bell Tower Mall in the '60s? I was too young to have closely followed those projects when they were being built.

Does anyone recall the word on the street about those developments and the predicted impact they'd have on downtown? (E.g., "Bell Tower Mall will resurrect downtown!") If so, did those developments live up to the expectations that were put on them? (Of course the Hyatt development was a blessing, but I'm curious to compare pre-construction views with how the developments turned out.)

Thanks. And this is NOT a criticism of Greenville; just curiosity about past development trends.

[gs3]

I wasn't around, have only lived here a short time, but I'd say each development did it's job and that's why the sum of these developments is the dynamic downtown of today. Bell Tower the exception, but then it's not really "downtown", and it's sole purpose, as malls from that era, was not to compliment a downtown, but pull business away.

I have heard from many that were here with the first "biggie", the Hyatt, that many thought the city was crazy to invest in it. Look what it did! So that one definitely exceeded expectations.

Greenville's downtown is so vibrant now, that I don't think one single development can add some huge masive boost, I think the developments will work together to help downtown continue on the path.

Interesting topic mallguy.

[vicupstate]

I have some vague memories of hearing about the controversy surrounding the Hyatt. I hadn't been to Greenville at the time, but read the News in my college library. One of my fraternity brothers had a reception for his 2nd LT. Marine commissioning at the Hyatt. I didn't make it, but I wish I had now. It would have brought me to Greenville a decade earlier than my first actual visit. Then I would have some "I remember when" stories of DT.

[distortedlogic]

Ya'll, I drove down mainstreet on my way home from work, from the new stadium(ballpark) all the way to E North. It is really amazing how many projects are going on right now, just on main st. There are several projects, and street improvements going on with the properties near the stadium, then of course all the riverplace stuff, the condos, the stuff on north main, etc. Then if you add all the stuff being planned: clemson center, BOFA improvements, Piazza bergamo, new hotel near city hall, new stuff where young and GQ fashions are, Pinnacle on main, etc......