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smeagolsfree

Michael Hayes article in the NBJ

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Just to get everyone even more excited, there is another huge development in the works in SOBRO. One of our fellow posters on this site, Michael Hayes, who is spearheading the Struever Brothers project is trying to put together a huge office development in SOBRO according to the NBJ. I will post this article Monday if it comes out in the online addition. He is talking about everything from 4 to 30 story buildings along Gateway Blvd. and 1.5 million sq feet of office space. This would be in addition to what the Sounds proposal is. This would happen between now and 2010. Also included would be a high end hotel. A master plan should be unveiled in about 60 days. This may not be what some of you want to see in SOBRO , but to that I say, "Would you rather see it in Cools Springs?". The CBD is going to have to expand and this may be the perfect area. We may not get all the empty surface lots in downtown filled, but as time goes on that will take care of itself. As for Nashville's built environment, I say go Michael.

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I wonder if we'll acquire enough money to extend Gateway Blvd. all the way to 8th Ave. This development possibility certainly warrants increased efforts in securing the funds necessary to comeplete Gateway Blvd. as initially planned.

I, for one, will pray that all these things can be accomplished--Nashville has dream city status on the horizon!

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I'm sure we'll see Gateway to Eighth. I'm glad the original, original plan didn't make it far. That was a high-speed expressway right through SoBro. That would have been disastrous.

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This may not be what some of you want to see in SOBRO , but to that I say, "Would you rather see it in Cools Springs?"

Maybe. Too soon to tell without knowing the details. If the plan calls for a lot of mid level punctuated by a little high, I'm cool with it. If its garbage, I'd rather see it on someone elses lawn. I'm hopeful it won't be garbage, but with all of the developers tripping over each other to build in the Gulch and SoBro, I think we as a community can start to be a little picky about who we allow to get rich builing our urban environment, and how they go about doing so. This is business, folks. The developers aren't doing this primarily out of the goodness of their hearts. I appreciate their efforts, but Nashville needs to be saavy rather than just grateful. I look forward to seeing Mr. Hayes' plans.

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I'm sure we'll see Gateway to Eighth. I'm glad the original, original plan didn't make it far. That was a high-speed expressway right through SoBro. That would have been disastrous.

Oh hellz yays. Successful civic resistance to the plot to destroy Nashville ended not only in Gateway Boulevard being turned into an actual urban street, but in the formation of Nashville's glorious and wonderful Urban Design Forum, which in turn had a hug hand in the founding of our wonderful and superb Nashville Civic Design Center. The "Athens of the South" needed that forum, and it has sewn many crucial seeds in the city's leadership and its expectations for the future.

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All I can say is WOW once again. There's is so much being considered, much of which is actually happening or going to happen, that it's starting to make my head spin. You know the saying, "if you build it, they will come." I think downtown needed an influx of Class A office space. With SunTrust, WES and now this, that's exactly what will happen. I fully expect a good number of these corporate relocations we've been hearing about will wind up in downtown rather than out in the suburbs. What Nashville desparately needed was some good quality office sites to compete with Cools Springs, etc. Well, it looks like that what will happen.

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Maybe. Too soon to tell without knowing the details. If the plan calls for a lot of mid level punctuated by a little high, I'm cool with it. If its garbage, I'd rather see it on someone elses lawn. I'm hopeful it won't be garbage, but with all of the developers tripping over each other to build in the Gulch and SoBro, I think we as a community can start to be a little picky about who we allow to get rich builing our urban environment, and how they go about doing so. This is business, folks. The developers aren't doing this primarily out of the goodness of their hearts. I appreciate their efforts, but Nashville needs to be saavy rather than just grateful. I look forward to seeing Mr. Hayes' plans.

i agree. now that we are getting a lot of interest in building downtown, we can afford to shop around for what we really want and need.

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All good points. I think maybe that Michael Hayes will do a good job at putting the right type of developments and buildings in. At some point there will have to be some major retail activity coming back in the CBD. Maybe that can be part of the development. SOBRO could have a lot of shopping with the CBD having the 2nd and Broadway district. Looks as if each area of the downtown may have something to offer and be a destination. I just wonder if there will be more residential included in this project. there was none mentioned in the article. It seems to be all class A office space and a hotel. But the plan is said to be sketchy at this point in time.

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All good points. I think maybe that Michael Hayes will do a good job at putting the right type of developments and buildings in. At some point there will have to be some major retail activity coming back in the CBD. Maybe that can be part of the development. SOBRO could have a lot of shopping with the CBD having the 2nd and Broadway district. Looks as if each area of the downtown may have something to offer and be a destination. I just wonder if there will be more residential included in this project. there was none mentioned in the article. It seems to be all class A office space and a hotel. But the plan is said to be sketchy at this point in time.

once again the nbj misquoted me. we do plan to develop office, but those plans will not be out for awhile. ballpark master plan will be out in three weeks, not sobro master plan for sber and cbr. all this office is tenant driven, so it could be awhile. hopefully not too long though. bass berry moving to our area would be a big help. we will show a little glempse of what sbro could look like down the line as a part of the master plan though.

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Thanks mwh, I'm really looking forward to the ballpark master and how it will tie into Rolling Mill. I believe that starting at the river and working west will show us all a blueprint into the future of the area. The scope of those two projects is sometimes underestimated regarding the impact it will have on the future of Sobro. These intitial steps are actually the most important in showing the general citizenry of Nashville that there is a future in downtown. It will be a downtown we haven't seen before and a downtown I and those others of us here anxiously await.

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once again the nbj misquoted me. we do plan to develop office, but those plans will not be out for awhile. ballpark master plan will be out in three weeks, not sobro master plan for sber and cbr. all this office is tenant driven, so it could be awhile. hopefully not too long though. bass berry moving to our area would be a big help. we will show a little glempse of what sbro could look like down the line as a part of the master plan though.

Michael, how would the uncertainty (and anticipated decision) of the location for the new convention center affect your company's plans for development west of the ballpark? Would office give way to hotel?

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once again the nbj misquoted me. we do plan to develop office, but those plans will not be out for awhile. ballpark master plan will be out in three weeks, not sobro master plan for sber and cbr. all this office is tenant driven, so it could be awhile. hopefully not too long though. bass berry moving to our area would be a big help. we will show a little glempse of what sbro could look like down the line as a part of the master plan though.

hayesmw,

I'm curious if the uncertainty on the convention center relocation is affecting your planning process for SoBro projects?

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I'm looking forward with great excitement to the unveiling of the Sounds masterplan in about three weeks, and a couple of months down the road to Streuver Bros. further plans for SoBro as they are unveiled. Michael, we look forward to your projects, and hope that the imprint on Nashville that you make is a great one!

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Michael, how would the uncertainty (and anticipated decision) of the location for the new convention center affect your company's plans for development west of the ballpark? Would office give way to hotel?

At this time, it's not a consideration. We have to move forward as long as demand continues, because it may never happen. I do not think anyone truly believes that there will be any movement on the convention center for at least 24-36 months. Purcell won't touch this one while he's in office and his successor will most likely want to take some time to study it.

I could talk about this subject for hours, but unfortunately I do not have the time to really go into details. At this point in time, I do not anticipate that we would build a hotel to serve the convention center. We have not been approached by any hoteliers in regards to the new facility. We would like to build a hotel as a part of the ballpark development if the right flag will come to town. I am a native Nashvillian and want to bring the locals downtown. Don't get me wrong I truly apprecitate the tourists and the dollars they bring, and they would be a great mix to what we are trying to do, but we want a neighborhood geared toward locals first. If the convention center goes at Demonbreun and 5th as proposed, I think we as a city will really be missing a huge opportunity to grow our core which is the heart and sole of the region. Downtown is space constrained. It cannot grow to the north, east or west. The only way for future growth is to the south in SoBro. There are no real developable lots in the core. Yes, there are a few surface lots, but these all have problems or are too small to develop. We have to move south of Broadway.

According to a recent study by the Design Center, the area 1st through 8th, Gateway to Demonbreun represents under the recently updated sub area 9 plan, aproximately 12 million developable square feet if one was to max out the floor area ratios currently allowed. This does not take into account the unlimited height allowed on Gateway, nor does it take into account the FAR bonous allowed (unlimited) if one is to build a project with affordable housing. This represents minimum $1.5 billion in mixed use development in current dollars. Based on current and projected growth, it would probably take about 10 years to complete this much development.

With the plan outlined by the CDC, we could have a tremendous amount of retail with office and residential above. Lifestyle/Big Box along Gateway (think Neimans, Pottery Barn, Crate and Barrel, etc. Kind of like the Miracle Mile in Chicago, but on a smaller scale), extend Molloy to 8th to create a unique pedistrian scaled street for cool local restuarants and shops, then complemented by the music mile along demonbreun w/ arts and cultural uses. Add to that the honky tonks and clubs on Broadway, 2nd and in the DISTRICT and we could have the most energetic downtown in the southeast.

I'd love to see the minutes from the study group that chose this location. I find it somewhat intersting that there was not a city planner on the study group committee. I'd really like to hear how the sites were debated and if they looked at the opportunity cost of this location vs. others in light of the trade off with mixed use development.

I have not been sold on the Demonbreun and 5th location and look forward to the public debate on the location. In general I support the idea of a new building. I just want to make sure it goes in the right place and that the costs are placed soley on the people using the facility.

I like the idea of the facility at 4th and Gateway or Peabody extending south to allow the development referenced above to occur.

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Thanks for the insight Michael. Its great to have someone on the forum that has inside knowledge of some things that may or may not happen in the CBD. I am glad you mentioned the fact there are not many development lots in the DT core. That was my feeling as well. The are too many problems with many of the surface lots left and I for one dont want to see any more of our older buildings go down.

I didn't know there was an unlimited height on Gateway Blvd. This opens up a whole new avenue of possibilities. I like the idea of a mini miracle mile.

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Thanks for the insight Michael. Its great to have someone on the forum that has inside knowledge of some things that may or may not happen in the CBD. I am glad you mentioned the fact there are not many development lots in the DT core. That was my feeling as well. The are too many problems with many of the surface lots left and I for one dont want to see any more of our older buildings go down.

I didn't know there was an unlimited height on Gateway Blvd. This opens up a whole new avenue of possibilities. I like the idea of a mini miracle mile.

If you ever really want to look at the core, look for lots that are greater than 22,000 SF. If there were any, this is the size required for development. If prices ever get north of $500 a foot, then it might be practicle to develop the smaller lots, say of around 10-14k SF.

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Could somebody maybe label an area map and show the sizes of the surface lots in DT, just to give us an idea of how many developable lots are left?

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I did this some time back but never posted it. This image shows vacant DT surface lots. The outline in blue indicates projects either planned or under construction and the outlines in red indicate a vacant lot ripe for development. Many of those are either too small or have stipulations to them.

DTNash.jpg

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That's great. Some of the red ones are tiny though, like the little one to the right of huge gray building. What could go there? Of course, now that I think about it, there is that tower with the 6000 square foot footprint.

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Thanks smeagolsfree. Much appreciated. Really glaring how little space is available in the CBD.

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If you ever really want to look at the core, look for lots that are greater than 22,000 SF. If there were any, this is the size required for development. If prices ever get north of $500 a foot, then it might be practicle to develop the smaller lots, say of around 10-14k SF.

hayes, im confused on this matter. i'm not a developer so please enlighten me. i was under the impression that the small lots weren't practical because the land value would require to build super tall. but you state that it might make sense if the price goes NORTH of $500 p.f.. is this because a parking company could no longer afford it? maybe because the commercial/residential would lease for more? please clarify for the layman.

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hayes, im confused on this matter. i'm not a developer so please enlighten me. i was under the impression that the small lots weren't practical because the land value would require to build super tall. but you state that it might make sense if the price goes NORTH of $500 p.f.. is this because a parking company could no longer afford it? maybe because the commercial/residential would lease for more? please clarify for the layman.

Sorry, sales price per unit goes north of $500. Really, probably signigicantly higher. You're right. You get to a point of diminishing returns, partially due to parking and having to provide it. Take the small building that's being developed across from Terrazo. I bet it will be toward the top of the market for pricing SIG may be pricey too. small lot, 2 untis per floor. Very cool building, but expensive to build. Big Floor plates are really efficient. they also all you to spread the land cost over more units. So, as the market price for units increases, smaller and smaller lots become feasible to redevelop in an area with expensive land.

I did this some time back but never posted it. This image shows vacant DT surface lots. The outline in blue indicates projects either planned or under construction and the outlines in red indicate a vacant lot ripe for development. Many of those are either too small or have stipulations to them.

DTNash.jpg

Could you add numbers to this map.? I'll try fill you in on most of the parcels.

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Sorry, sales price per unit goes north of $500. Really, probably signigicantly higher. You're right. You get to a point of diminishing returns, partially due to parking and having to provide it. Take the small building that's being developed across from Terrazo. I bet it will be toward the top of the market for pricing SIG may be pricey too. small lot, 2 untis per floor. Very cool building, but expensive to build. Big Floor plates are really efficient. they also all you to spread the land cost over more units. So, as the market price for units increases, smaller and smaller lots become feasible to redevelop in an area with expensive land.

Could you add numbers to this map.? I'll try fill you in on most of the parcels.

When you say numbers, what kind are you looking for and I will see what I can do.

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