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Phizzy

Municipalities

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Biggest population gainers:

Rank Municipality                   County           2000      2004        Change

1 Macomb township Macomb 50,478 66,477 15,999 31.7%

2 Canton township Wayne 76,366 84,654 8,288 10.9%

3 Chesterfield township Macomb 37,405 42,560 5,155 13.8%

4 Brownstown township Wayne 22,989 28,041 5,052 22.0%

5 Grand Blanc township Genesee 29,827 34,674 4,847 16.3%

6 Novi city Oakland 47,386 51,934 4,548 9.6%

7 Holland township Ottawa 28,911 33,338 4,427 15.3%

8 Genoa township Livingston 15,873 19,535 3,662 23.1%

9 New Baltimore city Macomb 7,405 10,857 3,452 46.6%

10 Northville township Wayne 21,036 24,429 3,393 16.1%

11 Commerce charter township Oakland 34,764 37,995 3,231 9.3%

12 Shelby charter township Macomb 65,159 68,334 3,175 4.9%

13 Scio township Washtenaw 15,751 18,851 3,100 19.7%

14 Oakland charter township Oakland 13,071 16,146 3,075 23.5%

15 Washington township Macomb 19,080 22,134 3,054 16.0%

16 Sterling Heights city Macomb 124,471 127,476 3,005 2.4%

17 Hartland township Livingston 10,996 13,917 2,921 26.6%

18 Van Buren township Wayne 23,559 26,445 2,886 12.3%

19 Allendale township Ottawa 13,042 15,790 2,748 21.1%

20 Gaines charter township Kent 20,112 22,813 2,701 13.4%

21 Bath township Clinton 7,528 10,116 2,588 34.4%

22 Ypsilanti township Washtenaw 49,177 51,599 2,422 4.9%

23 Delhi charter township Ingham 22,496 24,822 2,326 10.3%

24 Pittsfield charter township Washtenaw 30,153 32,456 2,303 7.6%

25 Union charter township Isabella 7,615 9,870 2,255 29.6%

26 Port Huron township St. Clair 8,615 10,856 2,241 26.0%

27 Oshtemo township Kalamazoo 17,003 19,139 2,136 12.6%

28 Marion township Livingston 6,752 8,870 2,118 31.4%

29 Bedford township Monroe 28,606 30,695 2,089 7.3%

30 Oxford charter township Oakland 16,025 18,101 2,076 13.0%

31 Georgetown township Ottawa 41,658 43,703 2,045 4.9%

32 Lenox township Macomb 8,433 10,476 2,043 24.2%

33 Blackman charter township Jackson 22,800 24,837 2,037 8.9%

34 Berlin charter township Monroe 6,924 8,881 1,957 28.3%

35 Byron township Kent 17,553 19,509 1,956 11.1%

36 Tyrone township Livingston 8,450 10,322 1,872 22.2%

37 Oceola township Livingston 8,362 10,123 1,761 21.1%

38 Ada township Kent 9,882 11,586 1,704 17.2%

39 Augusta township Washtenaw 4,813 6,515 1,702 35.4%

40 Lyon charter township Oakland 11,035 12,683 1,648 14.9%

41 Garfield township Grand Traverse 13,840 15,474 1,634 11.8%

42 Caledonia township Kent 8,964 10,578 1,614 18.0%

43 Green Oak township Livingston 15,618 17,215 1,597 10.2%

44 Grand Haven township Ottawa 13,278 14,838 1,560 11.7%

45 Fenton township Genesee 12,968 14,446 1,478 11.4%

46 Walker city Kent 21,842 23,315 1,473 6.7%

47 Mundy township Genesee 12,191 13,657 1,466 12.0%

48 White Lake charter township Oakland 28,219 29,631 1,412 5.0%

49 Independence charter township Oakland 32,581 33,962 1,381 4.2%

50 Algoma township Kent 7,590 8,911 1,321 17.4%

Biggest population losers:

Rank Municipality                   County           2000      2004        Change

1 Detroit city Wayne 951,270 900,198 -51,072 -5.4%

2 Flint city Genesee 124,943 119,716 -5,227 -4.2%

3 Kalamazoo city Kalamazoo 77,145 73,960 -3,185 -4.1%

4 Saginaw city Saginaw 61,792 59,045 -2,747 -4.4%

5 Grand Rapids city Kent 197,800 195,115 -2,685 -1.4%

6 Lansing city Ingham/Eaton 119,378 116,941 -2,437 -2.0%

7 Dearborn city Wayne 97,775 95,470 -2,305 -2.4%

8 Warren city Macomb 138,247 136,118 -2,129 -1.5%

9 Livonia city Wayne 100,545 98,936 -1,609 -1.6%

10 Bay City city Bay 36,817 35,317 -1,500 -4.1%

11 Royal Oak city Oakland 60,062 58,573 -1,489 -2.5%

12 Redford township Wayne 51,622 50,164 -1,458 -2.8%

13 Dearborn Heights city Wayne 58,264 56,828 -1,436 -2.5%

14 Farmington Hills city Oakland 82,111 80,787 -1,324 -1.6%

15 Lincoln Park city Wayne 40,008 38,744 -1,264 -3.2%

16 St Clair Shores city Macomb 63,096 61,864 -1,232 -2.0%

17 Jackson city Jackson 36,316 35,133 -1,183 -3.3%

18 Highland Park city Wayne 16,746 15,675 -1,071 -6.4%

19 Bloomfield charter township Oakland 42,968 42,064 -904 -2.1%

20 Allen Park city Wayne 29,376 28,481 -895 -3.0%

21 Inkster city Wayne 30,115 29,239 -876 -2.9%

22 Southfield city Oakland 78,296 77,491 -805 -1.0%

23 Wyandotte city Wayne 28,006 27,247 -759 -2.7%

24 Garden City city Wayne 30,047 29,310 -737 -2.5%

25 Hamtramck city Wayne 22,976 22,241 -735 -3.2%

26 Oak Park city Oakland 29,793 29,074 -719 -2.4%

27 Eastpointe city Macomb 34,077 33,384 -693 -2.0%

28 Port Huron city St. Clair 32,338 31,710 -628 -1.9%

29 Madison Heights city Oakland 31,101 30,510 -591 -1.9%

30 Ann Arbor city Washtenaw 114,123 113,567 -556 -0.5%

31 River Rouge city Wayne 9,917 9,367 -550 -5.5%

32 Grosse Pointe Woods city Wayne 17,080 16,546 -534 -3.1%

33 Taylor city Wayne 65,868 65,383 -485 -0.7%

34 Ironwood city Gogebic 6,293 5,808 -485 -7.7%

35 Holland city Ottawa/Allegan 35,048 34,606 -442 -1.3%

36 Ferndale city Oakland 22,105 21,666 -439 -2.0%

37 Harper Woods city Wayne 14,254 13,815 -439 -3.1%

38 Grand Haven city Ottawa 11,168 10,733 -435 -3.9%

39 Meridian charter township Ingham 39,107 38,674 -433 -1.1%

40 Flint township Genesee 33,691 33,265 -426 -1.3%

41 Hazel Park city Oakland 18,963 18,553 -410 -2.2%

42 Escanaba city Delta 13,140 12,752 -388 -3.0%

43 Monroe city Monroe 22,076 21,690 -386 -1.7%

44 Grosse Pointe Park city Wayne 12,443 12,064 -379 -3.0%

45 Alpena city Alpena 11,311 10,939 -372 -3.3%

46 Riverview city Wayne 13,272 12,909 -363 -2.7%

47 Buena Vista charter township Saginaw 10,318 9,961 -357 -3.5%

48 Lansing charter township Ingham 8,458 8,117 -341 -4.0%

49 Ecorse city Wayne 11,229 10,896 -333 -3.0%

50 Benton Harbor city Berrien 11,182 10,851 -331 -3.0%

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Biggest population gainers:

Municipality                   County           2000      2004        Change

Macomb township Macomb 50,478 66,477 15,999 31.7%

Canton township Wayne 76,366 84,654 8,288 10.9%

Chesterfield township Macomb 37,405 42,560 5,155 13.8%

Brownstown township Wayne 22,989 28,041 5,052 22.0%

Grand Blanc township Genesee 29,827 34,674 4,847 16.3%

Novi city Oakland 47,386 51,934 4,548 9.6%

Holland township Ottawa 28,911 33,338 4,427 15.3%

Genoa township Livingston 15,873 19,535 3,662 23.1%

New Baltimore city Macomb 7,405 10,857 3,452 46.6%

Northville township Wayne 21,036 24,429 3,393 16.1%

Commerce charter township Oakland 34,764 37,995 3,231 9.3%

Shelby charter township Macomb 65,159 68,334 3,175 4.9%

Scio township Washtenaw 15,751 18,851 3,100 19.7%

Oakland charter township Oakland 13,071 16,146 3,075 23.5%

Washington township Macomb 19,080 22,134 3,054 16.0%

Sterling Heights city Macomb 124,471 127,476 3,005 2.4%

Hartland township Livingston 10,996 13,917 2,921 26.6%

Van Buren township Wayne 23,559 26,445 2,886 12.3%

Allendale township Ottawa 13,042 15,790 2,748 21.1%

Gaines charter township Kent 20,112 22,813 2,701 13.4%

Bath township Clinton 7,528 10,116 2,588 34.4%

Ypsilanti township Washtenaw 49,177 51,599 2,422 4.9%

Delhi charter township Ingham 22,496 24,822 2,326 10.3%

Pittsfield charter township Washtenaw 30,153 32,456 2,303 7.6%

Union charter township Isabella 7,615 9,870 2,255 29.6%

Port Huron township St. Clair 8,615 10,856 2,241 26.0%

Oshtemo township Kalamazoo 17,003 19,139 2,136 12.6%

Marion township Livingston 6,752 8,870 2,118 31.4%

Bedford township Monroe 28,606 30,695 2,089 7.3%

Oxford charter township Oakland 16,025 18,101 2,076 13.0%

Georgetown township Ottawa 41,658 43,703 2,045 4.9%

Lenox township Macomb 8,433 10,476 2,043 24.2%

Blackman charter township Jackson 22,800 24,837 2,037 8.9%

Berlin charter township Monroe 6,924 8,881 1,957 28.3%

Byron township Kent 17,553 19,509 1,956 11.1%

Tyrone township Livingston 8,450 10,322 1,872 22.2%

Oceola township Livingston 8,362 10,123 1,761 21.1%

Ada township Kent 9,882 11,586 1,704 17.2%

Augusta township Washtenaw 4,813 6,515 1,702 35.4%

Lyon charter township Oakland 11,035 12,683 1,648 14.9%

Garfield township Grand Traverse 13,840 15,474 1,634 11.8%

Caledonia township Kent 8,964 10,578 1,614 18.0%

Green Oak township Livingston 15,618 17,215 1,597 10.2%

Grand Haven township Ottawa 13,278 14,838 1,560 11.7%

Fenton township Genesee 12,968 14,446 1,478 11.4%

Walker city Kent 21,842 23,315 1,473 6.7%

Mundy township Genesee 12,191 13,657 1,466 12.0%

White Lake charter township Oakland 28,219 29,631 1,412 5.0%

Independence charter township Oakland 32,581 33,962 1,381 4.2%

Algoma township Kent 7,590 8,911 1,321 17.4%

:sick::sick::sick: ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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This is incredibly depressing. Saginaw's losses were less than expected. Additionally Ann Arbor's losses were less than expected too. I always feel bad that the city of Ann Arbor has such a floating population. The bulk of the inner city is filled with non-residents, nearly 40,000 of them which take up all the housing. What Ann Arbor is left with is actual residents on the periphery. Maybe the city should annex Superior, Ann Arbor, Scio, Pittsfield and maybe Lodi townships. I'm sure it would make a lot of people mad, but oh well, population problem solved. j/k

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Phizzy, think you can rank these by percentage loss, as well, for cities over 50,000, or so, or whatever works for you?

I must say, I'm kind of surprised to see Kazoo up there with Flint, Saginaw, and Detroit in terms of population loss from 2000 to 2004.

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Phizzy, think you can rank these by percentage loss, as well, for cities over 50,000, or so, or whatever works for you?
Cities with population 50,000+:

Rank City              County           2000     2004         Change

1 Novi Oakland 47,386 51,934 4,548 9.6%

2 Sterling Heights Macomb 124,471 127,476 3,005 2.4%

3 Wyoming Kent 69,368 70,300 932 1.3%

4 Rochester Hills Oakland 68,825 69,480 655 1.0%

5 Troy Oakland 80,959 81,432 473 0.6%

6 Battle Creek Calhoun 53,364 53,399 35 0.1%

7 Pontiac Oakland 67,561 67,582 21 0.0%

8 Westland Wayne 86,602 86,316 -286 -0.3%

9 Ann Arbor Washtenaw 114,123 113,567 -556 -0.5%

10 Taylor Wayne 65,868 65,383 -485 -0.7%

11 Southfield Oakland 78,296 77,491 -805 -1.0%

12 Grand Rapids Kent 197,800 195,115 -2,685 -1.4%

13 Warren Macomb 138,247 136,118 -2,129 -1.5%

14 Livonia Wayne 100,545 98,936 -1,609 -1.6%

15 Farmington Hills Oakland 82,111 80,787 -1,324 -1.6%

16 St Clair Shores Macomb 63,096 61,864 -1,232 -2.0%

17 Lansing Ingham/Eaton 119,378 116,941 -2,437 -2.0%

18 Dearborn Wayne 97,775 95,470 -2,305 -2.4%

19 Dearborn Heights Wayne 58,264 56,828 -1,436 -2.5%

20 Royal Oak Oakland 60,062 58,573 -1,489 -2.5%

21 Kalamazoo Kalamazoo 77,145 73,960 -3,185 -4.1%

22 Flint Genesee 124,943 119,716 -5,227 -4.2%

23 Saginaw Saginaw 61,792 59,045 -2,747 -4.4%

24 Detroit Wayne 951,270 900,198 -51,072 -5.4%

Cities with population 25,000+:

Rank City              County           2000     2004         Change

1 Novi Oakland 47,386 51,934 4,548 9.6%

2 Kentwood Kent 45,255 46,538 1,283 2.8%

3 Sterling Heights Macomb 124,471 127,476 3,005 2.4%

4 Burton Genesee 30,308 30,926 618 2.0%

5 Wyoming Kent 69,368 70,300 932 1.3%

6 Midland Midland/Bay 41,728 42,145 417 1.0%

7 Rochester Hills Oakland 68,825 69,480 655 1.0%

8 Portage Kalamazoo 44,897 45,210 313 0.7%

9 Troy Oakland 80,959 81,432 473 0.6%

10 East Lansing Ingham/Clinton 46,606 46,678 72 0.2%

11 Battle Creek Calhoun 53,364 53,399 35 0.1%

12 Pontiac Oakland 67,561 67,582 21 0.0%

13 Westland Wayne 86,602 86,316 -286 -0.3%

14 Roseville Macomb 48,129 47,960 -169 -0.4%

15 Muskegon Muskegon 40,105 39,954 -151 -0.4%

16 Ann Arbor Washtenaw 114,123 113,567 -556 -0.5%

17 Southgate Wayne 30,136 29,919 -217 -0.7%

18 Taylor Wayne 65,868 65,383 -485 -0.7%

19 Southfield Oakland 78,296 77,491 -805 -1.0%

20 Mount Pleasant Isabella 25,943 25,651 -292 -1.1%

21 Holland Ottawa/Allegan 35,048 34,606 -442 -1.3%

22 Grand Rapids Kent 197,800 195,115 -2,685 -1.4%

23 Warren Macomb 138,247 136,118 -2,129 -1.5%

24 Livonia Wayne 100,545 98,936 -1,609 -1.6%

25 Farmington Hills Oakland 82,111 80,787 -1,324 -1.6%

26 Madison Heights Oakland 31,101 30,510 -591 -1.9%

27 Port Huron St. Clair 32,338 31,710 -628 -1.9%

28 St Clair Shores Macomb 63,096 61,864 -1,232 -2.0%

29 Eastpointe Macomb 34,077 33,384 -693 -2.0%

30 Lansing Ingham/Eaton 119,378 116,941 -2,437 -2.0%

31 Dearborn Wayne 97,775 95,470 -2,305 -2.4%

32 Oak Park Oakland 29,793 29,074 -719 -2.4%

33 Garden Wayne 30,047 29,310 -737 -2.5%

34 Dearborn Heights Wayne 58,264 56,828 -1,436 -2.5%

35 Royal Oak Oakland 60,062 58,573 -1,489 -2.5%

36 Wyandotte Wayne 28,006 27,247 -759 -2.7%

37 Inkster Wayne 30,115 29,239 -876 -2.9%

38 Allen Park Wayne 29,376 28,481 -895 -3.0%

39 Lincoln Park Wayne 40,008 38,744 -1,264 -3.2%

40 Jackson Jackson 36,316 35,133 -1,183 -3.3%

41 Bay Bay 36,817 35,317 -1,500 -4.1%

42 Kalamazoo Kalamazoo 77,145 73,960 -3,185 -4.1%

43 Flint Genesee 124,943 119,716 -5,227 -4.2%

44 Saginaw Saginaw 61,792 59,045 -2,747 -4.4%

45 Detroit Wayne 951,270 900,198 -51,072 -5.4%

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Phizzy, think you can rank these by percentage loss, as well, for cities over 50,000, or so, or whatever works for you?

I must say, I'm kind of surprised to see Kazoo up there with Flint, Saginaw, and Detroit in terms of population loss from 2000 to 2004.

Kalamazoo has lost a lot of jobs too. Phizer came in and choped everything up, unfortunatly a lot of high paying jobs left

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Why not? I don't think charter townships should have ever been created (as townships are enough governence as it is), but I don't see why there shouldn't be townships unless you want to argue that county representation is enough.

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Phizzy, where are the townships? They are municipalities, too.
Post #1 includes townships. In post #5, I thought you were only looking for cities (quote: "...for cities over 50,000...").

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By cities, I meant anything over 50,000, cities and townships, alike, if that isn't too much trouble. I was really just wanting it broken down by percentage loss and gain.

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By cities, I meant anything over 50,000, cities and townships, alike, if that isn't too much trouble. I was really just wanting it broken down by percentage loss and gain.

Rank Municipality                      County         2000     2004         Change

1 Macomb township Macomb 50,478 66,477 15,999 31.7%

2 Canton township Wayne 76,366 84,654 8,288 10.9%

3 Novi city Oakland 47,386 51,934 4,548 9.6%

4 Ypsilanti township Washtenaw 49,177 51,599 2,422 4.9%

5 Shelby charter township Macomb 65,159 68,334 3,175 4.9%

6 Sterling Heights city Macomb 124,471 127,476 3,005 2.4%

7 Wyoming city Kent 69,368 70,300 932 1.3%

8 West Bloomfield charter township Oakland 64,860 65,493 633 1.0%

9 Rochester Hills city Oakland 68,825 69,480 655 1.0%

10 Troy city Oakland 80,959 81,432 473 0.6%

11 Clinton township Macomb 95,648 95,950 302 0.3%

12 Battle Creek city Calhoun 53,364 53,399 35 0.1%

13 Waterford charter township Oakland 71,981 72,007 26 0.0%

14 Pontiac city Oakland 67,561 67,582 21 0.0%

15 Westland city Wayne 86,602 86,316 -286 -0.3%

16 Ann Arbor city Washtenaw 114,123 113,567 -556 -0.5%

17 Taylor city Wayne 65,868 65,383 -485 -0.7%

18 Southfield city Oakland 78,296 77,491 -805 -1.0%

19 Grand Rapids city Kent 197,800 195,115 -2,685 -1.4%

20 Warren city Macomb 138,247 136,118 -2,129 -1.5%

21 Livonia city Wayne 100,545 98,936 -1,609 -1.6%

22 Farmington Hills city Oakland 82,111 80,787 -1,324 -1.6%

23 St Clair Shores city Macomb 63,096 61,864 -1,232 -2.0%

24 Lansing city Ingham/Eaton 119,378 116,941 -2,437 -2.0%

25 Dearborn city Wayne 97,775 95,470 -2,305 -2.4%

26 Dearborn Heights city Wayne 58,264 56,828 -1,436 -2.5%

27 Royal Oak city Oakland 60,062 58,573 -1,489 -2.5%

28 Redford township Wayne 51,622 50,164 -1,458 -2.8%

29 Kalamazoo city Kalamazoo 77,145 73,960 -3,185 -4.1%

30 Flint city Genesee 124,943 119,716 -5,227 -4.2%

31 Saginaw city Saginaw 61,792 59,045 -2,747 -4.4%

32 Detroit city Wayne 951,270 900,198 -51,072 -5.4%

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If the whole township presence of the first table doesn't say "suburban culture in Michigan is alive and well", I don't know what does. Townships are becoming the new symbol of elitism in this state. Almost every growth and every decline is township/city respectively. That is NOT good news.

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It's crazy how many people Macomb Township has gained. My town is number 2 on the list for people gained.

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It's crazy how many people Macomb Township has gained. My town is number 2 on the list for people gained.
For the most part, it seems that the places gaining populaton in the Detroit Metropolitan Statistical Area are "stealing" people from other places within the MSA.

25 of the top 50 gainers are in Detroit MSA - which seems impressive - but 32 of the top 50 losers are also in the Detroit MSA.

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That, and the population numbers for the metro show you that Metro Detroit is posting very modest growth, and is simply playing a game of musical residents.

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For the most part, it seems that the places gaining populaton in the Detroit Metropolitan Statistical Area are "stealing" people from other places with the MSA.

25 of the top 50 gainers are in Detroit MSA - which seems impressive - but 32 of the top 50 losers are also in the Detroit MSA.

yes, but 50 years ago these places were not part of the efficiency of a sustainable population growth. Townships raise red flags because they are cheap to develop in, have little resiliance when it comes to NIMBY's because there is SO much space, so it's easy to "leap frog" the development, further increasing the sprawl and future difficulty to connect the "pods" of developed sprawl.

They leach off of the losing cities 10, 15, 20, 25 miles in who are and will be severely paying heavy prices to subsidize a weakening horizontal system that loses strength and support the further it dangles from the tributaries that lead to the spine of the region (possibly Woodward Avenue). Think of glueing popsicle sticks end-to-end from the very first stick which you are holding between your thumb and fingers. The further out it goes, it's going to reach a breaking point.

In a nut shell, these numbers represent the scenario that we are paying heavier prices to serve fewer and fewer people, ie, the rich. Which is why the gap between the rich and the poor is widening and the middle class is either keeping up or dying. Concentrated poverty gets worse and segregation by class and race stays out of control.

Think of why people are either buying Hummer's or Hybrids. You don't hear much from the in-between group anymore.

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Does anyone have a good map of what area is contained in Macomb Township? I've been to New Baltimore before, and it seemed like that area of Macomb County was pretty flat, treeless and depressing.

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Does anyone have a good map of what area is contained in Macomb Township? I've been to New Baltimore before, and it seemed like that area of Macomb County was pretty flat, treeless and depressing.
Macomb Township is just west of New Baltimore.

x1wuv9.jpg

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You guys will like this:

The-New-Tony-Detroit who posts on SSP is one of my best friends and his family is from Macomb Twp. I go up there to visit them quite often and he takes me around showing me where he grew up.

I'm so baffled by what we see...

M-59 (aka 20 Mile Road) is like a freeway with traffic lights and 10 times wider being it is an ultra-boulevard. When I first saw the retail lining the highway, I was dumbfounded by how expansive it was and how difficult it was to see because of the width of the road in addition to the setbacks from the highway.

We'll take north-south routes up to 21, 22, and 23 Mile Roads, where he explains to me that they use to be dirt back when M-59 was only a 2-lane highway. The north-south roads are obviously paved and 4 to 5 lanes wide. But the Mile Roads are all newly paved and those less than 4 lanes are being widened to fit the sprawling development.

Then, we go up to 24, 25, and 26 Mile Roads which mirror what 21, 22, and 23 Mile looked like say 10 years ago. The biggest of the biggest homes are being built on these dirt roads, much removed by the "poor people's mansions" on 21-23 Mile Roads. It's sickening to know what the future lies for these next few miles of roads. They'll obviously be paved, then widened, then abandoned for the next 3 Mile Roads as the "poor" move in.

Low and behold the retail along M-59 will become outdated and obsolete, not because it couldn't keep up with the times, but because 30 Mile Road is the "new M-59 or current 20 Mile Road".

There's a viscious cycle occurring in Macomb County at and above M-59. If you ever get the chance, drive up there, zig-zag the Mile Roads until you start to feel the movement of suburbia...or should I say exurbia. This place makes suburbia look like Manhattan. It's really an interesting phenomenon that we allow to take place.

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It's funny, but I've never been north of Sterling Heights in Macomb County, so I have no idea how M-59 looks, though, I KEEP hearing about it.

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I rarely go to Macomb County. When I do go it's usually only to Mount Clemens or St. Clair Shores. I try to stay away from all the new development as the traffic is usually horrible.

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If you ever get the chance, go up there just to observe how the Metro Area is destroying itself. It's not like it's intangible. You can actually see it happening.

There's a place called Downtown Macomb or Central Macomb, or something to that effect. I couldn't tell you how to get there because it's in the middle of nowhere, but that's a prime example. It's like a town (more like a few buildings on some streets) that is only accessible from one entry. I'm not even going to try to explain it, because it's too confusing and rediculous.

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