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Phizzy

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There's a place called Downtown Macomb or Central Macomb, or something to that effect. I couldn't tell you how to get there because it's in the middle of nowhere, but that's a prime example. It's like a town (more like a few buildings on some streets) that is only accessible from one entry. I'm not even going to try to explain it, because it's too confusing and rediculous.
Is it this?
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It's funny, but I've never been north of Sterling Heights in Macomb County, so I have no idea how M-59 looks, though, I KEEP hearing about it.

Macomb County is exactly like Saginaw Highway, LMich, except 100 times larger. Same ol, same ol over and over and over again.

Another fun one is to take Gratiot or Groesbeck North from 696 and count the Target's and ToysRUs's. It's sickening. I took M-59 one time while it was undergoing expansion 6 or 7 years ago, and it took us two hours to get from Pontiac over to I-94. :sick:

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Is it this?

YES! That is exactly it. lol.

It is the worst thing I have ever seen in all my 26 years. That photo on the upper right of the page is the imprint in my mind of how I remember the place. Just this "stuff" sitting in the middle of an open field surrounded by parking. It almost felt "private" in a way, like we were entering someone's hunting property up north.

I will probably be up that way sometime this weekend and will make the effort to go photograph what is there currently.

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I'm saying that if they put this in Detroit everyone would be pissing their pants in excitiment, as they are creating a dense, walkable neighborhood with what looks like mixed-use development in certain areas. The fact that it is in Macomb TWP is the only bad thing about it. But since it is in Macomb TWP, I'd rather see this type of development than the haphazard sprawl that is going in around it.

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Yeah, it didn't look so bad to me. But, I'll wait for Michi's picture to make a judgement. If his description is right, it's just another lifestyle center in the middle of nowhere, in which case, it kind of defeats the purpose making the difference between good and bad crap...well, not much of a difference, at all.

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I just visited this development the other day, and it is definitely being constructed in the middle of nowhere. The area looks like it was completely rural 10 years ago, but even today the sprawl hasn't truly reached this point. There are a few beginnings of suburbia going in around this complex, and as fast as Macomb TWP is growing, it will probably be built out in 10 or 15 years.

Anyway, the current entrance to the complex is at 25 Mile Rd, and I actually passed it up once before realizing where it was. Near the entrance is a new Ice Arena, but once you take the road into the interior, they have two buildings already constructed. The first is the new Township Hall, which I must say I am impressed with. The other building is the Recreation Center, which also is impressive. Both faced what looked to be a future town square with roads running off in three different directions. Currently, each road extends only about 100 yards from the town square, but looking at the plans you can see where each leads. Now, I'm not sure if this will just be a typical lifestyle center, but being that I have never actually seen one in person, I am impressed. Regardless of whether or not this takes away from the urban center, I'd much rather see people embrace these than the 1 acre-lot subdivisions going in around it. Especially, when you consider that 2,000 residential units on 79 acres could produce a density of nearly 45,000 ppsm, compared to 1 acre-lot subdivisions which produce densities of 2,000 ppsm or less.

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I think Hall Rd aka 20mile aka m-59, is the busiest Road in the state of Michigan, It's dumfounding how wide, that thing is. when I watch just how many cars travel on it, i'm rendered speechless.

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^ Ultimately what I'd like to see happen to the entire M-59, at least out to I-94, is similar to what was done between Mound Rd and Van Dyke Ave in Utica, a depressed freeway with frontage roads, thus efficiently separating local and regional traffic. The right-of-way is certainly there (I think something like 240 feet wide or so), and traffic volumes definitely justify it.

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I understand what you are saying, but that's insanity. As it sits right now it's pretty awe inspiring, does anyone know what the exact car counts are?

Ok I decided to take it upon myself and answer my own question for a change. According to MDOT Hall Rd, Thru Utica, and after m-53 is the busiest non Freeway in Michigan with 90,000 cars a day traveling on it. The busiest stretch of freeway is i-696 from the city of Southfield to the I-75 junction, with anywhere from 210k - 230k cars passing thru it on average daily.

For you GR kids, the busiest stretch of non freeway is Alpine Avenue from Three to Four Mile with 65,000 Vehicles on average daily. (Thats more cars on it, than pass underneath it on the I-96 freeway.) The next closest Road is the East Beltline from Leonard to 28th with a little more than 54k avg. daily. As for GR Freeways, that ominous title goes to the 131 (no suprise there) From 28th St. thru to the I-96 interchange with anywhere from 110k to 130k on averge daily.

Lansing is a little harder to decipher the data isn't done for all of the roads. PA ave, isn't on there neither is Cedar St. or MLK

I'm not sure if Grand River Ave is the busiest in the metro area or not, but that's listed at about 50k on avg daily, and the 496 is shown as the busiest freeway with about 65k.

Flint, Miller Rd. at just under 55k for nonfreeways, and on I-75 where it converges with 23, thru past Clio, is the busiest stretch of Freeway, with anywhere from 85k to 110k, at any given stretch. I should also say that this number jumps dramatically on weekends and holidays and is packed all the way thru Bay City.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Biggest population gainers:

Rank Municipality                   County           2000      2004        Change

1 Macomb township Macomb 50,478 66,477 15,999 31.7%

2 Canton township Wayne 76,366 84,654 8,288 10.9%

3 Chesterfield township Macomb 37,405 42,560 5,155 13.8%

4 Brownstown township Wayne 22,989 28,041 5,052 22.0%

5 Grand Blanc township Genesee 29,827 34,674 4,847 16.3%

6 Novi city Oakland 47,386 51,934 4,548 9.6%

7 Holland township Ottawa 28,911 33,338 4,427 15.3%

8 Genoa township Livingston 15,873 19,535 3,662 23.1%

9 New Baltimore city Macomb 7,405 10,857 3,452 46.6%

10 Northville township Wayne 21,036 24,429 3,393 16.1%

11 Commerce charter township Oakland 34,764 37,995 3,231 9.3%

12 Shelby charter township Macomb 65,159 68,334 3,175 4.9%

13 Scio township Washtenaw 15,751 18,851 3,100 19.7%

14 Oakland charter township Oakland 13,071 16,146 3,075 23.5%

15 Washington township Macomb 19,080 22,134 3,054 16.0%

16 Sterling Heights city Macomb 124,471 127,476 3,005 2.4%

17 Hartland township Livingston 10,996 13,917 2,921 26.6%

18 Van Buren township Wayne 23,559 26,445 2,886 12.3%

19 Allendale township Ottawa 13,042 15,790 2,748 21.1%

20 Gaines charter township Kent 20,112 22,813 2,701 13.4%

21 Bath township Clinton 7,528 10,116 2,588 34.4%

22 Ypsilanti township Washtenaw 49,177 51,599 2,422 4.9%

23 Delhi charter township Ingham 22,496 24,822 2,326 10.3%

24 Pittsfield charter township Washtenaw 30,153 32,456 2,303 7.6%

25 Union charter township Isabella 7,615 9,870 2,255 29.6%

26 Port Huron township St. Clair 8,615 10,856 2,241 26.0%

27 Oshtemo township Kalamazoo 17,003 19,139 2,136 12.6%

28 Marion township Livingston 6,752 8,870 2,118 31.4%

29 Bedford township Monroe 28,606 30,695 2,089 7.3%

30 Oxford charter township Oakland 16,025 18,101 2,076 13.0%

31 Georgetown township Ottawa 41,658 43,703 2,045 4.9%

32 Lenox township Macomb 8,433 10,476 2,043 24.2%

33 Blackman charter township Jackson 22,800 24,837 2,037 8.9%

34 Berlin charter township Monroe 6,924 8,881 1,957 28.3%

35 Byron township Kent 17,553 19,509 1,956 11.1%

36 Tyrone township Livingston 8,450 10,322 1,872 22.2%

37 Oceola township Livingston 8,362 10,123 1,761 21.1%

38 Ada township Kent 9,882 11,586 1,704 17.2%

39 Augusta township Washtenaw 4,813 6,515 1,702 35.4%

40 Lyon charter township Oakland 11,035 12,683 1,648 14.9%

41 Garfield township Grand Traverse 13,840 15,474 1,634 11.8%

42 Caledonia township Kent 8,964 10,578 1,614 18.0%

43 Green Oak township Livingston 15,618 17,215 1,597 10.2%

44 Grand Haven township Ottawa 13,278 14,838 1,560 11.7%

45 Fenton township Genesee 12,968 14,446 1,478 11.4%

46 Walker city Kent 21,842 23,315 1,473 6.7%

47 Mundy township Genesee 12,191 13,657 1,466 12.0%

48 White Lake charter township Oakland 28,219 29,631 1,412 5.0%

49 Independence charter township Oakland 32,581 33,962 1,381 4.2%

50 Algoma township Kent 7,590 8,911 1,321 17.4%

Biggest population losers:

Rank Municipality                   County           2000      2004        Change

1 Detroit city Wayne 951,270 900,198 -51,072 -5.4%

2 Flint city Genesee 124,943 119,716 -5,227 -4.2%

3 Kalamazoo city Kalamazoo 77,145 73,960 -3,185 -4.1%

4 Saginaw city Saginaw 61,792 59,045 -2,747 -4.4%

5 Grand Rapids city Kent 197,800 195,115 -2,685 -1.4%

6 Lansing city Ingham/Eaton 119,378 116,941 -2,437 -2.0%

7 Dearborn city Wayne 97,775 95,470 -2,305 -2.4%

8 Warren city Macomb 138,247 136,118 -2,129 -1.5%

9 Livonia city Wayne 100,545 98,936 -1,609 -1.6%

10 Bay City city Bay 36,817 35,317 -1,500 -4.1%

11 Royal Oak city Oakland 60,062 58,573 -1,489 -2.5%

12 Redford township Wayne 51,622 50,164 -1,458 -2.8%

13 Dearborn Heights city Wayne 58,264 56,828 -1,436 -2.5%

14 Farmington Hills city Oakland 82,111 80,787 -1,324 -1.6%

15 Lincoln Park city Wayne 40,008 38,744 -1,264 -3.2%

16 St Clair Shores city Macomb 63,096 61,864 -1,232 -2.0%

17 Jackson city Jackson 36,316 35,133 -1,183 -3.3%

18 Highland Park city Wayne 16,746 15,675 -1,071 -6.4%

19 Bloomfield charter township Oakland 42,968 42,064 -904 -2.1%

20 Allen Park city Wayne 29,376 28,481 -895 -3.0%

21 Inkster city Wayne 30,115 29,239 -876 -2.9%

22 Southfield city Oakland 78,296 77,491 -805 -1.0%

23 Wyandotte city Wayne 28,006 27,247 -759 -2.7%

24 Garden City city Wayne 30,047 29,310 -737 -2.5%

25 Hamtramck city Wayne 22,976 22,241 -735 -3.2%

26 Oak Park city Oakland 29,793 29,074 -719 -2.4%

27 Eastpointe city Macomb 34,077 33,384 -693 -2.0%

28 Port Huron city St. Clair 32,338 31,710 -628 -1.9%

29 Madison Heights city Oakland 31,101 30,510 -591 -1.9%

30 Ann Arbor city Washtenaw 114,123 113,567 -556 -0.5%

31 River Rouge city Wayne 9,917 9,367 -550 -5.5%

32 Grosse Pointe Woods city Wayne 17,080 16,546 -534 -3.1%

33 Taylor city Wayne 65,868 65,383 -485 -0.7%

34 Ironwood city Gogebic 6,293 5,808 -485 -7.7%

35 Holland city Ottawa/Allegan 35,048 34,606 -442 -1.3%

36 Ferndale city Oakland 22,105 21,666 -439 -2.0%

37 Harper Woods city Wayne 14,254 13,815 -439 -3.1%

38 Grand Haven city Ottawa 11,168 10,733 -435 -3.9%

39 Meridian charter township Ingham 39,107 38,674 -433 -1.1%

40 Flint township Genesee 33,691 33,265 -426 -1.3%

41 Hazel Park city Oakland 18,963 18,553 -410 -2.2%

42 Escanaba city Delta 13,140 12,752 -388 -3.0%

43 Monroe city Monroe 22,076 21,690 -386 -1.7%

44 Grosse Pointe Park city Wayne 12,443 12,064 -379 -3.0%

45 Alpena city Alpena 11,311 10,939 -372 -3.3%

46 Riverview city Wayne 13,272 12,909 -363 -2.7%

47 Buena Vista charter township Saginaw 10,318 9,961 -357 -3.5%

48 Lansing charter township Ingham 8,458 8,117 -341 -4.0%

49 Ecorse city Wayne 11,229 10,896 -333 -3.0%

50 Benton Harbor city Berrien 11,182 10,851 -331 -3.0%

Grand Rapids is still losing its population? Its no suprise. Though, that trend migh slow down a bit with all the new condo projects being proposed or under construction in downtown right now. However to truely stop the bleeding would be to fix the local public school system here. Like most inner city school systems GRPS is grossly under funded and therefore stinks big time. Fix the school system and people will come back.

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Grand Rapids is still losing its population? Its no suprise. Though, that trend migh slow down a bit with all the new condo projects being proposed or under construction in downtown right now. However to truely stop the bleeding would be to fix the local public school system here. Like most inner city school systems GRPS is grossly under funded and therefore stinks big time. Fix the school system and people will come back.
Although I posted those numbers, I tend to question their accuracy. During the 1990s, the Census Bureau also released estimates for each July 1st. This is what they came up with:

April 1, 1990 Census: 189,673

July 1, 1990 Estimate: 190,418

July 1, 1991 Estimate: 189,681

July 1, 1992 Estimate: 189,619

July 1, 1993 Estimate: 189,226

July 1, 1994 Estimate: 189,052

July 1, 1995 Estimate: 188,937

July 1, 1996 Estimate: 188,579

July 1, 1997 Estimate: 187,656

July 1, 1998 Estimate: 186,219

July 1, 1999 Estimate: 185,009

Based on the way the population was trending, I would have guessed that the April 4, 2000 Census would be around 184,600. Actually, it was 197,800. So, instead of losing 4,600+, Grand Rapids gained 8,100+. That is a swing of 12,700+.

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