Jump to content

Soleil Center I & II at Crabtree


durham_rtp

Recommended Posts

40 stories at Crabtree?

Unbe (bleep) ing lievable! That's hideous. It'll stick up like a giant phallus in the middle of nowhere and be a constant lightning rod for criticism (and lightning, for that matter.)

Thank goodness that we have nimbys who won't let this see the light of day. Anybody know if Raleigh learned a lesson from Durham and the University Tower, and made a law prohibiting huge buildings outside the CBD?

A 40 story tower does NOT belong at Crabtree. Period. This is like pounding a stake through the heart of downtown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the cituation with the university tower in durham is a completely different story.

i think this isnt such a bad idea it could turn crabtree into a hot spot for developers and open the door for other projects like this in the downtown area and areas like crabtree and northills

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 1.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

i cought the wral news at 6 and they had a segment on this. I tell you what after looking at the model and design of the place i really like this tower alot, and it somewhat blends into crabtree. The tower looks alot better in color, and each angle of the building offers a different view of the building which is pretty neat. If anybody cought this or pictures of it post it please, i looked on the wral site but couldnt find it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 story buildings aside for a moment, Crabtree Valley is becoming another urban satellite for Raleigh. I've said this before, but in time I would expect see similar such urban developments along the I-440 Beltline--specifically Crabtree Valley, North Hills, Highwoods (has a proposed TTA stop), and New Bern/Sunnybrook (WakeMed)

Highwoods already has a "mini skyline", North Hills is about to get more of one (already has two "high rises"), WakeMed/Sunnybrook sort of has one and could see some additions in the future. If this 40 story tower for Crabtree includes some provisions for making the area more urban over time, then I'm all for it--regardless of height.

On a more aesthetic note, I would prefer to see two 20 story buildings instead of one 40 story building, but whatever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the "pedestrian entrance." Doesn't this make you just want to go on in and check the place out? Ha. What a joke.

CCG003.jpg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That sign on the back wall at least makes me interested :silly:

I'm much less curious/concerned about the design of the tower than about its attitude towards the street. I've said it before but I'll say it again: if Crabtree is going to be an urban activity center then it has to be pedestrian friendly. There have to be people going in and out of this building on foot, so the ground floor has to be accessible, inviting, and attractive, or else this becomes a 40 story suburban subdivision where nobody goes in or out without their car.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not arguing with your point, but this mall is not designed for pedestrians and probably never will be. The site which the tower sits on can be oriented towards the pedestrian, but there are some massive streets in between that and the mall that would require a pedestrian bridge similar to the one across the Betline to accomplish what you are proposing in terms of access.

The mall is, of course, all about the experience on the inside - they're not designed to make you feel welcome until you actually walk through the door. As it is, the entire mall is barricaded from the outside by a giant moat of parking decks, and someone feels rather insulted - like an intruder or a vagrant - if you try to come on foot from off premesis. Like you're not wanted if you don't come in a car. If it happens to be dark outside, you feel as if one of their security people will drive up in a little pickup with a green flashing light and ask you what business you have there, and tell you to go away before they call the cops. Of course I've never heard of anything like that happening in real life, but the uncomfortable, unwelcome feeling that I get approaching that mall on foot is very real. Maybe I'm oversensitive to all this, but I'm always insulted when people with cars are catered to lavishly while those of us who chose to come without a 3000 pound chunk of metal are ignored completely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good points as well, but all of this is not going to happen overnight. The garages are a necessity, most of the traffic comes in by car and there's little that can be done about it feasably. I feel your pain as I do not drive, but still, the market is overwhelmingly dictated by those who do. In fact, easy auto access to shopping is why that mall was buit in the first place. Were it not for that, Hudson Belk would still be downtown and Sears would still be at Cameron Village.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As much as I dislike Southpoint for it's incredible sea of parking, they do have two places with some excellent interaction between vehicles and pedestrians. At the two places where outdoor mall crosses a street, it's designed to make drivers understand instinctively that they're the ones intruding into pedestrian space, not vice versa.

orulz. I totally agree... the irony is that at Southpoint, to use those nice walkable areas ("The Streets") you must drive into the mall before you can become a pedestrian. :blink:

As far as the tower goes, there's no way I can imagine 40 stories working for that area. Can you imagine the kind of traffic that would add to an already heavily congested area? The thing I can't understand is how the developer thinks 40 stories would fly at Crabtree. The whole idea is just insane to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Raleigh is just so limited in where people would like to see a 40 story skyscraper. I mean it seems as if most people would only be happy if it were placed on Fayetteville Street proper, within a block or 2 of BB&T. Otherwise it would "stand out too much" or "look out of place". In a city with such a large population and land area, that is quite the limiting factor don't u think?

Btw yes I still believe the proposal is "out there", and I know it will be shot down or the developer will scale back...it's just funny to me how people are whining about the proposed 32 story Reynolds Tower being too far from BB&T....and now this huge tower is proposed :-p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's just funny to me how people are whining about the proposed 32 story Reynolds Tower being too far from BB&T....and now this huge tower is proposed :-p

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this tower should be a wake-up call to anyone who didn't like the Hillsborough St. lot for the 32 story tower. In the grand scale of things, that's a great place for it. There's already a 20 story hotel right across the street, and the 30 story Wachovia center just down the road. There's no question that it's the CBD, and that is where tall buildings should go.

I agree, no more whining about the 32 story building at 309 Hillsborough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, wasn't there talk of an outdoor section of the mall going in where some older department store is now? Couldn't they do something to tie the tower in with that? Anyway, I think all of this is possibile, but I realize the final decision will be entirely based the bottom line. I guess I shouldn't be holding my breath, should I?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think there is an oudoor section planned at Crabtree, but I think it's going to be along the Glenwood Avenue side extending from Hudson Belk to the Convenience Center, IOW, a fair piece from the proposed Westin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What exactly is to become of the Toys R Us and Barnes & Noble in the convience center once the outdoor portion of the mall starts.. I guess they'll be renovated and become a part of it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think a second story of stores is going to be added to the Convenience Center. That seems a little odd just talking about it, but I think it might be pretty cool if it's done well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK after hearing all of y'all's comments, i'd like to give my two cents. First off, i don't think the proposed 40 story structure will get built. It will most likely be scaled down maybe to about 25 - 30 stories. In my opinion scaling down is an excellent option. Personally i would like to see the project broken in to two towers one about 25 stories and the other about 13-15 stories. this would provide density as well as become a catalyst for a sort of midtown development for crabtree. also developers downtown will see this and possibly feel threatened ( Reynolds family hope you're listening) and create more development. Crabtree is not far from downtown. It could be a smaller-scale version of a young Buckhead. I think this would help downtown and hurt sprawl development. This project compliments the hugh booming area between North Hills and Crabtree. They both can and are becoming urban centers outside downtown but not in the burbs like Brier Creek and Triangle Town Center. Cant wait to hear more on this project.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Why would any of us want to imitate Buckhead?! Have you ever tried to drive there? Impossible. Amusingly, all the folks who live in the high-rise towers around Lennox and Phipps have to get in their cars to go to the mall(s), otherwise they put their lives at risk by trying to cross the street.

Having stayed at Crabtree last week on biz, I think this is a horrible idea in terms of planning. Glenwood is already a clusterfu*k around Crabtree and they want to add to it? I have a meeting on Thursday at the Planning Department. I'll let you know what the insiders say about the possiblity of this actually happening.

Also, what is the background of these guys who are proposing this? Have they ever actually developed anything this large?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone on SSC gave the idea that the developers and architects should take the time and money to include skywalks and pedestrian bridges that connect the hotel to Crabtree, the greenway, and possible future office buildings. Also there should be a "ped. bridge" connecting the Marriott to the mall. personally i find it a great idea to look into bc it creates a urban, walkable area that isn't really walkable on the ground. It might go well with city leaders and it could reduce the predicted traffic congestion that comes with the building.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that would be great if they can pull that off with the skywalks, it would make it have a more urban feel no doubt. But speaking of skywalks we dont even have any downtown accept for the legislative building i think connecting to some building. You go to charlotte and you see skywalks everywhere. I wish we had more of those downtown, but who would use them nobody even uses the sidewalks downtown accept for a few homeless at night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alot of councilmembers and city leaders dicourage skywalks bc they feel it will take away from ground level activity. They wanted to see more activity that way it could lure shops and cafes instead of being an empty place where people walk in the air and not on the ground. Kind of ironic dont you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I was the one that posted about including a skybridge to the mall in the project. In Indianapolis I recall something called the "overstreet mall" if thats not the name, feel free to correct me. Essentially, several buildings downtown were connected on the same floor with skybridges. In turn this area formed a "mall". I think it'd be awesome if the developers proposed "connecting" a floor (via skybridge) to Crabtree and making an extension of the mall inside the new project. IMHO its a win-win situation. The developers can advertise that they are giving people the option of living with a mall downstairs. Crabtree wins because they have 500 residents that will treat the mall like an "urban village" Want coffee? Donuts? Cheesecake? Downstairs! The city gets an urban walkable area, and future developers can extend the mall idea, or just benefit from having a skybridge to the mall in the building next to them. With residents in place, a grocery store/gym/theatre would be built fairly soon. Added bonuses could include a people mover in the mall complex or even a mall/tower delivery service. Make this a node in a mass transit program, and you've got an awesome urban area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if anyone weighed in on this yet or not, but after reading the article, one thing stood out at me.  Mayor Meeker says he's concerned about the height?  Are you kidding me?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've go no problem with Meekers comments. This mornings article from the N&O..."We need high-quality architecture but that doesn't mean buildings that overshadow surrounding areas," said Mayor Charles Meeker. "A 40-story building would be tall for downtown but it's out of scale for a suburban location."

There are quite a few single family homes norht of the site on the other side of the Glenwood that would be in the shadow of a 40 story building. Let's be reasonable, does a 40 story building really make sense, is this tought through ? At firts the Soleil Group was just going to remodel the existing hotel shell on site (which is about 15 stories I think.) Now lets raze it and triple the height. Many people on this board have an obsession with height and not smart, forward thinking design.

I'd like to attach a sat image of the area but I am not sure how to do so.

JB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks Romec for the full idea. on the issue of height, i feel 40 stories can be both good and bad. The bad is that right now, the crabtree area needs to start on smaller projects around 15-25 stories tall, just to see the effect ot it before we bring in a 40 story tower. it wouldn't fit well just yet bc there is not much to compliment the tower. Build two or three towers and then see if you can go anywhere upward. The good is that it could actually lure smaller towers to compliment it. Think of it....... You wake up in brand new residential tower, take the elevator to a skywalk that leads to Glen Tree and then proceed onward to crabtree. all would be connected by skywalks or pedestrian walkways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.