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Soleil Center I & II at Crabtree


durham_rtp

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Bringing this topic back... a friend told me that the project has been approved by the city's planning dept, but it has been scaled down to 25 stories.

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For a project that big, it would require council approval. That would mean it's been recommended for approval by the planning department.
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I don't think we'll ever see any rail stop near Crabtree. Good luck finding ROW and paying for the land out there. If the developer can get financing for this at Crabtree than let him give it a try. Sure it would be nice to have that downtown but there is lots of shopping and restaurants nearby for hotel guest to go to. If there was shopping and restaurants like that downtown, than perhaps he might be more interested in doing it there.

JB

This thing should still be downtown. But I can live with it if it's 25. It'll be a good 'node' for a future TTA stop so we might as well.

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I don't think we'll ever see any rail stop near Crabtree.  Good luck finding ROW and paying for the land out there.  If the developer can get financing for this at Crabtree than let him give it a try. Sure it would be nice to have that downtown but there is lots of shopping and restaurants nearby for hotel guest to go to. If there was shopping and restaurants like that downtown, than perhaps he might be more interested in doing it there.

JB

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We will. It's a long way off though. There are restaurants downtown... true that there aren't enough big shopping venues like Belk, Barnes+Noble, or Sears, but they'll come eventually. Downtown needs residents first to draw those in anyway.

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  • 1 month later...

As long as the project gets scaled down to at most BB&T's height, or moved downtown, I'm fine with it. I'd really like to see a project of this sort happen; and Crabtree could use all the saving it can get before it goes the way of SouthSquare.

Ironically enough, this would bear a striking resemblance to SouthSquare if it got approved without being scaled down to 20~ stories.

A quick google search brings up scary stuff.

http://www.shardex.com/showthread.php?t=297

http://www.northraleighnews.com/holly/stor...p-9051483c.html

http://www.nbc17.com/news/4644893/detail.html

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story...p-8910264c.html (posted already)

This is looking like the University Tower in Durham all over again.

-developer wants to make a quick buck on cheap property

-developer finds a decaying, low-value spot way outside of downtown

-developer proposes an absurdly large structure that the area can't support, but claims market forces make the area valuable and it would attract business

-the city doesn't want it

-shills run around calling the local government market-ignorant twats under the influence of NIMBY's, tree-huggers, and BANANAs, and blame all of the town's problems on their lack of vision.

-city finally agrees to the project, it gets built

-the giant building hurts downtown and does nothing for surrounding businesses.

-everyone will call the city gov't a bunch of idiots for allowing the development, so they'll change zoning laws to prevent it from ever happening again.

-since no buildings anywhere near that height can be built in that area again, the area is doomed to have one gigantic monstrosity dominate over a bunch of strip malls and single-family homes.

Perhaps I'm just a NIMBY tree-hugging commie, but I think the tallest building belongs downtown, and if this got approved without scaling back, I'm doubtful downtown would get anything taller for a very long time.

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If this building gets approved at 40ish stories I definately don't think they should impose height restrictions after the fact like they did in Durham. I mean University Tower would look alot better today if there were other buildings higher then 2 stories around it. The city sort of shot itself in the foot there. Hopefully Raleigh won't make the same mistake, and, if built, allow at least midrises to be built around the mall.

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I'm not sure I follow...Crabtree doesn't look to be in trouble to me. They are having a huge development built behind it and plans for an update.

Crabtree is no South Square.

The mall itself is fine, aside from the floodplane. It's a very adequate mall. The areas immediately surrounding it get a bit shoddy though, especially if you're heading out on glenwood to the outer loop.

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I live in the shadows of Crabtree for all intesive purposes and I hope that this area doesn't turn out shoddy. On the contrary, I think the area is actually doing quite well. You have the Galleria going up behind Crabtree, Glenlake expanding with homes from the $600,000's and other development all along Edwards Mill Road and up Creedmoor. It is a very desirable place to live in my opinion. Very easy access to 440, Rex Hospital and only 5-10 minutes from downtown. I think the area will be fine or at least I hope it does.

As for the Glentree design, it looks good but the size debatable if you ask me. Personally, anything would look better than the mess that is there now. If would rather see a max of 25-28 stories. Anything else should be concentrated in downtown in my opinion. I think the Holiday Inn at Crabtree is close to 20 stories and the Embassy Suites is probably 15 or so and sits on a hill. I think 25 would actually fit in nicely.

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A quick comment on the mall. In my opinion, Crabtree Mall will be fine. It is still the closest mall to Meredith and NC State and the higher income areas of the inside the beltline crowd. North Hills is another option, but as far as a mall is concerned, I think most people in these areas will drive the 3-5 miles to Crabtree before venturing out to Durham or all the way up Capital Blvd. I could be wrong, but its my 5 cents take on it.

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If this developer still wants to do a 46 story tower but the planning commission only approves a 25 story structure, I hope the developer makes the smart choice and blows off Raleigh completely, taking his vision to one of the many other cities that have been waiting for this with open arms. I hope other developers take notice and leave town too. Maybe another 20 years of rolling around in NIMBY bio-waste will teach the city a few things. Then again, probably not. I'm sure Cary or Durham would approve this thing as is in a minute. I'm serious.

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If this developer still wants to do a 46 story tower but the planning commission only approves a 25 story structure, I hope the developer makes the smart choice and blows off Raleigh completely, taking his vision to one of the many other cities that have been waiting for this with open arms. I hope other developers take notice and leave town too. Maybe another 20 years of rolling around in NIMBY bio-waste will teach the city a few things. Then again, probably not. I'm sure Cary or Durham would approve this thing as is in a minute. I'm serious.

Alright then. Care to explain why a 46 story building belongs on Creedmoor/Glenwood instead of Fayetteville street?

It'd be the tallest building in Raleigh, the Triangle, and North Carolina for that matter, outside of the Bank of America in Charlotte.

What context exists for a regional icon in that area?

How will it not be a huge slap in the face to downtown revitalization?

How will the tower not be completely out of context?

And Raleigh is the only city in the triangle that would likely approve a 46 floor building at all, let alone on its outskirts. Durham isn't making that mistake again. Nothing in Durham comes close to even half that height. Not even the pickle. The development doesn't match RTP's requirements, Cary's a height-hating sprawlville, Chapel Hill has a ridiculous height limit for any city, and the other Triangle towns can't support that kind of development.

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Alright then. Care to explain why a 46 story building belongs on Creedmoor/Glenwood instead of Fayetteville street?

Sure, and it is quite simple. The developer doesn't want to put the building on Fayetteville Street. The reasons for placing this structure where it is are valid in my opinion.

Perhaps when you acquire a huge sum of cash and the desire to build a visionary skyscraper, you can choose where you would like to build it. Just like now, I wouldn't want to stand in your way--I'd welcome such a massive investment in my community.

I would be massively offended and disgusted if a bunch of busybody suburbanites and downtown boosters started dictating and enforcing location and height specifications to me if I envisioned this incredibly gorgeous, sleek, and functional skyscraper--all designed with a purpose and placed in what is clearly becoming a hot spot of suburban Raleigh. Not only that, but this building is in a lot that is practically at the bottom of the Crabtree Creek bluffs... Everything else is on higher ground, even the parking lot of Circuit City.

Now don't get me wrong. Subjectively speaking I believe two or more shorter buildings would be a much better way to go, both aesthetically and keeping more of a "pedestrian scale"... I would go so far as to offer input to a developer, make a case for my opinion, etc... But if this guy is dead set on a single tall building then for christ's sake let it be, or be prepared to lose in the future.

I'm most certainly not the only one who feels this way. We're talking about very wealthy and powerful people, and their impact means a lot to a city like Raleigh. There is simply a line that you do not cross, at least not at this stage in our development.

It'd be the tallest building in Raleigh, the Triangle, and North Carolina for that matter, outside of the Bank of America in Charlotte.

So...

Are you implying that there will never ever be any more buildings ever constructed in Raleigh? Is this the final skyscraper to arrive in Raleigh, clearly one of the fastest growing cities in the country, and one that is only just now getting started on its road to maturity?

How will it not be a huge slap in the face to downtown revitalization?

Single buildings don't make a downtown. Street life and practical destinations do. Your concern over this aspect is misplaced.

How will the tower not be completely out of context?

So what? To remain in context we need a few more lanes, maybe some more traffic lights... Oh wait, how about a Best Buy to accompany the Circuit City. I think Crabtree Valley Mall could use some parking spaces.

Do we want a big jump start for development or do we want more of the same for the next 20 years or so. And yes, it will be 20 years. Look at South Park in Charlotte 20 years ago and look at it today. In terms of population and land area, Charlotte is sitting at least 20 years ahead of Raleigh... We can make perhaps a few loose predictions by looking at our older sister. We are fools if we don't take every opportunity to embrace cutting edge proposals--and this is most certainly cutting edge.

Your parallel to University Tower is not congruent. Glen Tree and University Tower serve completely different purposes, they interface with the surroundings in a completely different way, and they were proposed in absolutely incomparable eras.

Glen Tree is being built in Crabtree Valley, not Capital Blvd. One has potential, the other does not--at least not the kind of potential that we like to see.

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I agree with NC.

A lot of folks on this board tend to forget that the private sector are the ones who invest the vast majority of capital for these projects. The city might have preferences regarding these kind of projects but they can't tell investors where to invest their $40 million or whatever.

JB

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Hey I have an idea! Let's preserve the aesthetic beauty of the Glenwood Avenue corridor, specifically the area located between I-440 and the Target at Lynn Road. All of those beautiful and elegant shopping centers, fast food joints, the occasional gas stations. How on earth could we ever allow something that might actually be pleasing to the eye destroy the current beauty and glory of that corridor? I mean I would much rather have no redevelopment at all. Once the stores abandon their shopping centers and move up farther towards Brier Creek we should just let them sit empty instead of allowing for redevelopment. Same thing about abandoned hotels, restaurants, etc. Nothing above 2 floors should ever be allowed to be built anywhere in the city of Raleigh except for in a few blocks of Fayetteville Street. Urbanization of the old suburban areas are not the answer people! Anything proposed outside of downtown not involving retail of the big box nature or single family homes should not be allowed because it may hurt downtown!

*grins*

sorry I just get frustrated when I hear people constantly talking bad about things without considering that maybe Raleigh is approaching a population where it needs to grow up a little, instead of only growing out. I think that alot of people love Raleigh because it is so suburban, and they are afraid of things that don't conform with their suburban expectations....a tall building outside of the core is not going to stop downtown revitilazation. Downtown's are getting alot of attention nationally and a tall hotel with a few condos by a mall isn't going to stop that for Raleigh.

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