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Soleil Center I & II at Crabtree

durham_rtp

By durham_rtp
in The NC Triangle

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  • 1 month later...
DPK Hamlet

DPK

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Drove by the other night and peered at the site from my truck. The tarp that was covering the fencing at the site has fallen in some places so you can basically see right in without much effort anymore (I didn't have to get out of my truck at all). The entire foundation work is starting to succumb to mother nature. Weeds of all shapes and sizes are starting to overtake and obscure the concrete and steel that is there.

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vitaviatic Whistle-Stop

vitaviatic

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Earlier in this blog, I alluded to how Crabtree could and would escape from the surly bonds of suburban blah, and actually begin to embrace the creek at it's backdoor, rather than push it all out to the edge of the parking lot. Personally, I think Soleil (go ahead, hate me!) would have given it that nudge.

These are up close photos from my last incursion into the city of Medell

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staffer Whistle-Stop

staffer

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OK, I get it. Soleil is dead. .....

Instead, for whatever reason, whether it was the "it was a crappy project anyway", gloating victory dance, or it was the apologetic "well, the economy kicked over the sandcastles again" school of thought, we can now say that Soleil is dead.

Now you have a nice ditch to look at. Which, by the way, will really create problems in the neighborhood during the storms now. And you also now have the specter that Crabtree itself will choke and die, along with the neighborhood around it (at least the commercial parts), because of that crater. Instead of a gleaming tower (love it or hate it), you now have a big, stinky retention pond.

Sour grapes on my part? Nah! I didn't have a horse in this fight. I've got enough buildings (and a lot of them new, and still being finished) to look at out here. But as I said earlier in the argument, once that project turned the first blade of dirt, you should have been behind the thing, en masse, one hundred percent. For anyone who sees fit to gloat on Soleil's demise, I certainly hope that you don't live in the area. Your adjusted home price next year might have a comment or two about your victory.

Lesson here: Be careful what you wish for.

I'm done. So is Soleil Center. Probably a good time to close the topic, eh?

NOT so fast. From the #4 bus last Thursday I observed some big trucks rumbling into the site.

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Gard Burg

Gard

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Soleil is not an officially dead project. In fact, if you go to Starwood's (the parent of Westin) website, they have the hotel at Soleil listed as opening in December of 2011. Until there is an official document showing it has been canceled, its technically not a dead project, just stalled like zillions of other projects both here and around the country that have no activity right now. Between bad financial markets and developers choosing to wait, nothing much is going to happen.

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/prope...propertyID=1516

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Jones_ City

Jones_

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once that project turned the first blade of dirt, you should have been behind the thing, en masse, one hundred percent.

Lesson here: Be careful what you wish for.

Sorry Vit. As ambivalent as I am about the whole project, there is no reason why anyone needed to fall lockstep in support of it. Really to me...being a cheerleader of this one would have only served to show what little grasp a person has of reality regarding what this city will support. The downtowners and suburbanites alike seemed unimpressed.

Don't forget...rapidly rising home prices were a symptom of a banking system also detached from reality. Rising home prices mean squat unless your house is nothing more than an investment. These points aside from the zero chance that the failure of Soleil would ever have a direct negative impact on home values anywhere in this city.

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vitaviatic Whistle-Stop

vitaviatic

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For the El Tesoro pictures above, my apologies for the inadvertent posting of the original size. My photo editor did me wrong on that one. Much smaller ones have now been posted... :alc:

I would be the first to agree that million and a half $$$ condos anywhere in Raleigh would probably be a stretch (although they are still commonplace out here, even after the downturn -- and I do think around the periphery of a Dix Hill Park that would be a going rate). I always said that the developers would have to come back down to earth to make that condo needle work. And it's heartening to know that at least Starwood has enough faith in the thing to keep it alive, at least in the Westin website (as opposed to Crabtree being stuck with an open frogpond across the street forever).

Architecturally, I am ambivalent at best about the building. What I was impressed with was the scale of the project, and the power of the money behind it to not only transform that one corner, but everything around it. If you argue about it juxtaposing only with what is there now, I would counter that you are behind the curve. Everything is in a state of flux. If the area does end up in stasis, Crabtree Valley will die -- just like South Square and many others, that got trapped into the strip mall, tract home surroundings they had. IMHO, the ingredients are all there to make for a pretty hip spot that does not necessarily wreak of the bland suburban form that most here intensely dislike. Density can overcome its obvious drawbacks, given time and enough investment. A mall. coupled with several hotels, will spawn considerably more frequent and reliable cab service, as well as intensified transit service (especially given that Crabtree is in a linear feed from DTR to the airport). More traffic? Perhaps. But the complex would also feed more tax revenue into the city and state coffers to deal with improvements needed to address that issue. Now, if you own a house in Northclift, Brentwood, or Laurel Hills, you make not like it -- until you go to sell your house. Even crappy homes near Ballston, Rosslyn, or Buckhead, for example, command a lot of money.

As for aesthetics, well I can't account for everyone's taste. But I can tell you from the perspective of an "outsider", visitors to your city would not sneer at that building. It would, in fact, enhance Raleigh's image quite a bit from what it is now. Whether the edifice really is copied from Mumbai or wherever is irrelevant. Most people don't care about that. Soleil would be a "Wow!" building! Which is something that many bloggers here seem to feel is missing in the Triangle. Downtown Tulsa has way taller buildings than DTR will probably ever have -- probably because of the endless stream of oil money behind them. But the rest of Tulsa is underwhelming to say the least. What differentiates Raleigh, is that you can go to a handful of different neighborhoods and experience something unique. Something lavish, even.

Again, I project that if Soleil does beat the odds, that Crabtree will bloom into something you've never seen in those parts, and that you usually have to get on a plane to go visit. Pedestrian bridges and flyovers will start connecting people over the traffic, the creek will be exalted by new design features that not only entertain people, but compliment the setting. Other high profile buildings may begin to replace the antiquated and ugly parking decks to the rear of the mall, and all the carscape goes underground and gets replaced by water features and plazas.

And then one day, you can take the family to that upper floor restaurant, look out over your city, and say, "Wow!" Think about it.

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  • 1 month later...
ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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The Columbia mall/whatever (retail/entertainment/residential) concept could easily work on the old Kidd's Hill Plaza (Brendels, Food Lion, Steak and Ale, Pizza Hut) land, south of Crabtree creek/mall.

A multi-tower (office/hotel/residential) district (like near South Park in Charlotte) could spring up in the Creedmoor extension/Glenwood "wedge" and on the old Circuit City lot and strip office center behind it. Throw in a "European mountain village" at the old Its Prime Only site on Kidd's Hill *without* scraping the hilltop off. We drove back there last weekend and there is a lot of potential there, but it is quite trashed as it stands now.

The 40+ story hotel/condo/zoning-loophole tower was never necessary, and was *not* built despite the low interest, unregulated credit markets that could have financed it. It is better that it never came out of the ground instead of sitting half done, or sold at auction like the Atlantic Avenue condos.

I hope something comes of the site, but the proverbial well has been poisoned, leaving the area with a decaying construction site.

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DPK Hamlet

DPK

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The land in front of Circuit City has been used as an open-air flea market lately, with vendors hawking pumpkins and shrimp. It's hardly the sort of activity city planners had in mind when they envisioned the transformation of the land surrounding the mall.

Petri said the store is under contract with a buyer. She would not disclose the buyer but said an announcement will be made in 30 to 60 days.

I bet it's going to be a hhgregg. It seems to be their "thing" lately to basically put themselves in all the old Circuit City locations. From a business standpoint it makes great sense. All they have to do is throw their logo up on the front and the inside is already pretty much designed for that kind of business/inventory stock.

Guess we'll have to wait a couple months to see what ends up there.

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  • 3 months later...
Merboy Unincorporated Area

Merboy

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Again, I project that if Soleil does beat the odds, that Crabtree will bloom into something you've never seen in those parts, and that you usually have to get on a plane to go visit. Pedestrian bridges and flyovers will start connecting people over the traffic, the creek will be exalted by new design features that not only entertain people, but compliment the setting. Other high profile buildings may begin to replace the antiquated and ugly parking decks to the rear of the mall, and all the carscape goes underground and gets replaced by water features and plazas.

And then one day, you can take the family to that upper floor restaurant, look out over your city, and say, "Wow!" Think about it.

Absolutely beautiful idea. Absolutely *beautiful*.

P.S. Somewhere down the line can we change the name from Crabtree? I've always hated that name.

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Jones_ City

Jones_

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Absolutely beautiful idea. Absolutely *beautiful*.

P.S. Somewhere down the line can we change the name from Crabtree? I've always hated that name.

I guess it's clear the mall is named for the creek it sits beside? Actually the creek was moved but whatever...

To folks who have lived here forever, the reference to heading to Crabtree is sort of cultural.

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  • 5 months later...
orulz City

orulz

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The site plan was resubmitted to the city recently. You can see it on the Current Development Activity page.

 

http://www.raleighnc.gov/content/PlanDev/Documents/DevServ/DevPlans/Reviews/2005/SitePlan/SP-052-05.pdf

 

Does not look like there has been any substantial change as far as I can tell.

 

I think I am more at peace with the idea of a big tall building being located at Crabtree than I was in the past. I think Raleigh's and the Triangle's future lies in being a polycentric region with a number of dense nodes, each with its own strengths, rather than an ultra-centralized downtown like Chicago or Charlotte.

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