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Grand Rapids Nude Dancing Ban....For? or Against?


Grand Rapids Nude Dancing Ban....For? or Against?  

102 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you For or Against the Nude Dancing Ban in Grand Rapids?

    • Against
      67
    • For
      35


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Families? I don't know many families that go downtown to do anything. Downtowns typically aren't for families, they are for single business professionals (SBPs), young childless couples (TCCs), and empty nesters (ENTs). Downtowns have been thriving without the children influence, it can continue to thrive without them.

The "kid friendly downtown" approach gave us disasters like Mackey's World. I really dont think it could work again.

That's funny, I see a lot of families with small children downtown lately. Most likely due to the Otterness exhibit, but also the Children's Museum is usually pretty busy. Are you saying that downtown is so successful now that the businesses should strart discriminating? What downtowns have been "thriving" without any economic impact from "families"?

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The Children's Museum seems quite sucessful... I don't think Mackey's World failed soley on attendance, I was under the impression it was time and managment that did it in.

There seems to be hot spots when I see families, The Convention Center and The Arena.

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Apparently the City of Grand Rapids hates the 1st ammendment of the Constitution. :)

Oh brother. . here we go again . .someone please explain to me where in the 1st Amendment it says you have a right to dance naked and get paid to do it? Dancing naked is not free speech no matter how you try to twist it around . . .cripes, with a war going on overseas, terroism, etc. why are people crying their eyes out cause they can't dance naked. Please . .. .

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Oh brother. . here we go again . .someone please explain to me where in the 1st Amendment it says you have a right to dance naked and get paid to do it? Dancing naked is not free speech no matter how you try to twist it around . . .cripes, with a war going on overseas, terroism, etc. why are people crying their eyes out cause they can't dance naked. Please . .. .

No no, it was the second amendment. The right to bare arms.........wait a minute..... :blink:

Sorry, I have to say operating a business with nude dancing is completely constitutional. If you don't like it, don't patronize the establishment.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Mark London is in the news again:

"City leaders say the Grand Rapids zoning code does not allow liquor sales in an industrial zone. London says he plans to ask the city to rezone."

The complete story can be read on WoodTV8' website:

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5445136

I thought that Mr. London had bought a bar that had a liqour license in the area and was going to try and "transfer" the license to his new site? :dontknow:

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A nuddy bar unable to to sell booze. Opps! The dummy that's opening the new nuddy bar should have looked before leaping, I.E. checked the zoning first. Makes me believe that he won't last very long. To me that's a good thing. Reguardless of what any pro strip joint person may say, this kind of establishment only brings the surrounding area down. Thus a strip joint is the last thing DT needs right now.

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A nuddy bar unable to to sell booze. Opps! The dummy that's opening the new nuddy bar should have looked before leaping, I.E. checked the zoning first. Makes me believe that he won't last very long. To me that's a good thing. Reguardless of what any pro strip joint person may say, this kind of establishment only brings the surrounding area down. Thus a strip joint is the last thing DT needs right now.

Your dummy ie:Mark London, I think might have done a little homework before investing his monies. As he does have other working establishments in the area. He was planning on having a "full nudity" gallery and serve juice because Michigan law prohibits full nudity establishments with selling booze. With the new nudity Ban for the City of Grand Rapids recently passed, he is probably trying different options for business.

Can you name a decent sized city that doesn't have a nudity establishment in it area? I know Chicago and New York and Detroit have them. Even smaller cities like Lansing and Kalamazoo have them. Whether go there or not, do you think there isn't a client base for these establishments?

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Your dummy ie:Mark London, I think might have done a little homework before investing his monies. As he does have other working establishments in the area. He was planning on having a "full nudity" gallery and serve juice because Michigan law prohibits full nudity establishments with selling booze. With the new nudity Ban for the City of Grand Rapids recently passed, he is probably trying different options for business.

Can you name a decent sized city that doesn't have a nudity establishment in it area? I know Chicago and New York and Detroit have them. Even smaller cities like Lansing and Kalamazoo have them. Whether go there or not, do you think there isn't a client base for these establishments?

Chicago does not. They have an ordinance against them. I found that out working a trade show at McCormick years ago, that you have to go outside the city limits to find one. I did not go, BTW. :thumbsup:

This article has a little more detail.

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Chicago does not. They have an ordinance against them. I found that out working a trade show at McCormick years ago, that you have to go outside the city limits to find one. I did not go, BTW. :thumbsup:

This article has a little more detail.

My mistake on Chicago. I was there in March '06 for work and walked by a said establishement in the downtown area, but did not go in to see if it was open.

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Chicago does not. They have an ordinance against them. I found that out working a trade show at McCormick years ago, that you have to go outside the city limits to find one. I did not go, BTW. :thumbsup:

This article has a little more detail.

Chicago obviously does not buy into the pathetic argument of "evey big city is doing it" so why should we?

I believe Mr. London was planning on all nude establishment which would prevent him from serving alochol but since that plan was thwarted now he wants to serve booze at his bikini bar . . .poor Mr. London - - he just can't catch a break . . .(oozing w/ sarcasm)

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Uh, ya . . .smoking is being banned all over . . .and there is a push for an entire city enforced smoking ban . . .

Most restuarants have a smoking section if you so choose to sit there. Other establishments have opted to ban it all together, but that doesn't change the "rigths" of smokes to have a choice to go there or to go elsewhere does it?

Also, Mayor Heartwell has exempted the Grand Rapids City smoking ban from restuarants and bars......

"Now, Mayor George Heartwell wants others to kick the habit. He's proposing to ban smoking in private businesses, public businesses and enclosed public places, with
exceptions for bars, restaurants, hotels and tobacco stores
."

Incase you want to read the whole article because you have the choice not too..... :thumbsup:

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?s=5382651

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Uh, ya . . .smoking is being banned all over . . .and there is a push for an entire city enforced smoking ban . . .

Also, smoking has been proven to cause cancer to people who choose not to smoke by the means of "second hand" smoke. In my opinion, watching another girl or guy for that matter dance at his or her own will doesn't effect anyone except the two parties (dancer and watcher) involved......

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Communities do/have exhibited the right to ban/enforce/regulate these items. In the form of liquor licenses, dry towns (Zeeland, MI and others), gun registrations, smoking bans, etc. Isn't there something said, that 'Your rights end where others begin'. Meaning you have the right to do whatever you like....until it infringes on another persons right. If two people 'choose' at the same time to be at the same public place...one persons choice to stand there does not impact the health of the others. However, if that persons chooses to smoke, their right to smoke is infringing on the others right to not be around the hazard, and their health is compromised. Again, this is a public place and they equally have the right to be there. Who is posing the problem? Maybe the non smoking person then should carry a pocket fan, and blow the smoke back in the smokers face. :ph34r: Judo move!

I realize this is a decision for the citizens of GR on Nude bars, and not smoking. I seemed to notice a small debate about rights. Understanding how each persons rights are truely affected is crucial. In terms of 'rights', businesses are not people, they need to operate within conduct of their community.

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Using that logic, people should be able to legally smoke pot, do crack, shoot up heroine, gamble (other than in the reservations) prostitute themselves . . etc etc etc b/c those are things lots of folks like to do.

smoke pot + cigarettes + Heriones + Crack = known health damages to oneself and others around them. If you as a person, choose to do these than go ahead, but please explain to me, what harm does a strip club do to someone or anyone in said establishment willingly watching or willingly performing?

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I wish that people could just bring themselves to say "I don't like it and I think it should be illegal because it offends me".

There are much more serious things to be worried about besides (o) (o)

Please stop trying to police how people lead their lives if they aren't harming anyone.

Okay, I'm done.

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Supply and Demand baby! they got the (.Y.) and i demand to see em! lol Look, what this all comes down to is Mr London being really really stubborn on the downtown stripclub deal. The city has said for years it absolutely doesn't want one downtown. Made it pretty clear really. When Mr London forced their hand with the all nude club (which was because he couldn't get said liquer liscense due to zoning), the city put the smack down on him. Mark made his bed by pushing the issue. Now he's hurt his own business as well as the parkway and barn. I bet those owners are more ticked off at London than the city. Lets not pretend that the City is totally against these clubs, they are just hell bent on not allowing one downtown. Sensations has been around a long time and pretty darn close to a Chuck-e-cheese. I agree that they don't belong downtown. I don't agree that these clubs bring down their surrounding areas. It's a shame there can't be type of zoning for certain areas where one simply is not allowed, like a bubble around downtown, schools, neighborhoods, etc.

Wonder how much money them girls have lost..wow, talk about instant loss of income.

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smoke pot + cigarettes + Heriones + Crack = known health damages to oneself and others around them. If you as a person, choose to do these than go ahead, but please explain to me, what harm does a strip club do to someone or anyone in said establishment willingly watching or willingly performing?

Right . .but the logic behind the previous argument was that a person should be free to do whatever they want as long as it "doesn't hurt anyone else" . . . .

it all boils down to morality . . . do you really want your husband/boyfriend in there lusting after other women? (and yes, I know there are many avenues for that besides a strip club) You men could not possibly understand that . . .once an idea gets into your head it can become like an obsession . . .just like any vice . .some people can handle it and some cannot. And if you think that all that goes on at those places is just "watching" dances you are very naive. Nuff said . . . this all got started b/c I simply made the comment that we don't need a club b/c "evey big city has one" . . .kind of snow balled from there . . . . .I'll shut up now before anyone else's feathers get ruffled cause they wanna watch the strippers . . . :yahoo:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't understand why strip clubs would be ok for the suburbs but not downtown?! It doesn't make sense. This city has to grow up and realize that the world, like it or not, is desensitized to these sorts of activities. If you walk down a street in New York, a hip restaurant will sit next to a adult video shop which sits next to a clothing store. I think the laws here have already relegated everything to industrial areas, I just don't see where it hurts.

I wonder how many lives are lost due to strip clubs as opposed to bars and pubs. We have economic incentives to help liquor establishments flourish yet breasts = the fall of rome.

I hope the city gets spanked HARD on this lawsuit.

Joe

Supply and Demand baby! they got the (.Y.) and i demand to see em! lol Look, what this all comes down to is Mr London being really really stubborn on the downtown stripclub deal. The city has said for years it absolutely doesn't want one downtown. Made it pretty clear really. When Mr London forced their hand with the all nude club (which was because he couldn't get said liquer liscense due to zoning), the city put the smack down on him. Mark made his bed by pushing the issue. Now he's hurt his own business as well as the parkway and barn. I bet those owners are more ticked off at London than the city. Lets not pretend that the City is totally against these clubs, they are just hell bent on not allowing one downtown. Sensations has been around a long time and pretty darn close to a Chuck-e-cheese. I agree that they don't belong downtown. I don't agree that these clubs bring down their surrounding areas. It's a shame there can't be type of zoning for certain areas where one simply is not allowed, like a bubble around downtown, schools, neighborhoods, etc.

Wonder how much money them girls have lost..wow, talk about instant loss of income.

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This city has to grow up and realize that the world, like it or not, is desensitized to these sorts of activities.

I hope we never loose our sensitivity for 5 reasons, the least of which is the impact on the future of downtown. Maybe New York has enough vitality to overcome a sleezy business every block or two, but GR does not have that energy. Bring in the strip joints and the great majority of the market will avoid downtown as a result.

My 4 much more important reasons to oppose strip joints are named Kathie, Jennie, Lindsey and Lisa.

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