Long Term Rail and CATS Transit Plans

[dubone]

i was reading up on the recent station presentations on the NE line, after all the discussion spurred by Mr. Smith.

One of the answers says that the rail yards are NOT moving to the airport!! This line will be a catastrophy if three miles of its right of way is in the center of industrial rail yards! I just put in a comment to CATS to this fact. As 70% of the route is already planned to mix with traffic on super-busy Tryon, it would seem very simple to just run the tracks up davidson street through Optimist Park and NoDa. It would connect much better to growth potential and amenities like Little Sugar Creek Greenway.

Apparently, during the MIS, it was assumed that the yards were leaving, but somehow that is not the case.

In some ways, it seems like it would not be so bad to build the line if it wasn't in any rail corridor. Between uptown and NoDa, the grid is being rebuilt, so a lane taken from one street won't be devastating, and also traffic will be distributed. North of Sugar Creek, i guess they are already planning to do major rework of Tryon St, which surely the state could get behind doing soon as a road enhancement, and Bruton could get his ASAP rail .

I don't really get why it takes decades to do these things.

(that said, i still think the N line should take precendence over the NE line).

[atlrvr]

i was reading up on the recent station presentations on the NE line, after all the discussion spurred by Mr. Smith.

One of the answers says that the rail yards are NOT moving to the airport!!  This line will be a catastrophy if three miles of its right of way is in the center of industrial rail yards!  I just put in a comment to CATS to this fact.  As 70% of the route is already planned to mix with traffic on super-busy Tryon, it would seem very simple to just run the tracks up davidson street through Optimist Park and NoDa.  It would connect much better to growth potential and amenities like Little Sugar Creek Greenway.

Apparently, during the MIS, it was assumed that the yards were leaving, but somehow that is not the case.

In some ways, it seems like it would not be so bad to build the line if it wasn't in any rail corridor.  Between uptown and NoDa, the grid is being rebuilt, so a lane taken from one street won't be devastating, and also traffic will be distributed.  North of Sugar Creek, i guess they are already planning to do major rework of Tryon St, which surely the state could get behind doing soon as a road enhancement, and Bruton could get his ASAP rail .

I don't really get why it takes decades to do these things.

(that said, i still think the N line should take precendence over the NE line).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The rail yards will in fact move.....we are submitting a proposal to work on developing a redevelopment plan for the existing yards once they are moved.....there is also a RFP out for a consultant to assist in the relocation.

[dubone]

awesome news. As i've written before, i have high hopes for the area between 85 and Brookshire, but the industry must taper down for it to occur.

I wonder why the presentation from a few months ago sounded like they were staying... but it sounds like your info is more current than that CATS employee's info.

Thanks for the update.

[atlrvr]

no problem......the RFP is hot off the press....I was surprised as well, because I thought they were staying as well....but it was explicit about the intent (though it looks like NS isn't thrilled, and is making the city give them a sweetheart deal to move)

[Sabaidee]

The rail yards will in fact move.....we are submitting a proposal to work on developing a redevelopment plan for the existing yards once they are moved.....there is also a RFP out for a consultant to assist in the relocation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 16th Street Station should help the Optimist Park neighborhood alot, along with the current redevelopment bounded by Parkwood, 15th, Davidson and 16th Streets. Also this should live up Parkwood and Brevard heading toward NODA where it is dead.

[dubone]

the whole equation shifts dramatically without the railyards. With them, the whole area is industrial, only low rent housing/demographics stay, and the NE line will basically just be closing their eye through there so they can hurry to better places, just as drivers tend to do now.

Without the rail line, industry can actually expand and build synergy with airport multimodal operations... and back where they are now, all that land is opened up for major redevelopment. I had thought it would a good place for a sizeable central park in charlotte, but it could also be a blank slate for a major redevelopment of the area. Not only will it have the rail line through it, but by reconnecting the grid, and extending college street the whole way, this area could really be transit supportive, and a great place for low cost urban infill.

It all hinges on the yards.

[atlrvr]

Don't hold your breath on a park.....the city is going to sell this land to help pay for the rail yard relocation......but I think it is a VERY positive development that can hopefully transform this part of the city.

[Sabaidee]

Properties in the Optimist Park neighborhood right by the rail line and the future 16th Street Station most have seen their property value skyrocketed by 30 to 50 percent from between the last two property assessments. I think by the next property assessments, those Habitat For Humanity homes will reach into the 100Ks. A property on 19th Street was assessed at $72,000 with the land value of $20,000. Well I hope the NELRT will help this neighborhood.

[dubone]

yeah, i figured if an rfp were involved, a single massive park would not be in the mix.

Just with the rails and much of the truck traffic removed, and the grid restored... this area has huge potential. It just needs a new identity. I think it has the rights to the "north end" label, considering it is geographically opposite to the South End between South/Caldwell and Tryon, and extending a very similar distance away from uptown.

perhaps a good brand would help give the area an identity going forward. There are a few nice old warehouses up around there.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

i hadnt realized how awesome this would be. It would be great to be able to go either north or south of uptown and not fear for your life going north. I don't see the downside to that line at all.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/11802697.htm

Bruton Smith's money could really make light rail happen. $50 million and human resources, and major major lobbying clout (for both fed and state)... and he thinks light rail looks good enough to him.

[orulz]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/11802697.htm

Bruton Smith's money could really make light rail happen.  $50 million and human resources, and major major lobbying clout (for both fed and state)... and he thinks light rail looks good enough to him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This sounds like a pretty great deal to me... but I wonder whether the whole deal is contingent on the Nascar Hall of Fame or not. I find it interesting that his primary desire was for the train to look cool. Can't say I disagree entirely, either.

Now if only some rich guy would throw $50mil TTA in Raleigh so that they can get their plans back on track...

[dubone]

he's a business man, and loved the vegas monorail, and was probably shooting the schitt with the owner there over a glass of brandy, and came to realize that it got more people to the track to spend money.

Not to be outdone, or lose out on money, he wanted one for his own track... and just refused to accept that the city needed more than a decade to get it done.

I am happy that he is doing it, and his attitude is PERFECT, in my opinion... as he cuts through the fluff and says common sense statements that i think will strike a chord with charlotte laymen that may shift public opinion on the trains. . .

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

I wish more of an effort would be made to debunk the public misinformation that revolves around rail transit. In the interim, Smith's efforts are sending an encouraging message.

[atlrvr]

Allow me to vent for a moment......someone wrote a letter to the Rhino times denouncing Ron Tober and transit......they said money should be spent on roads and schools, and that transit doesn't pay for itself (the most common arguement that I hear).......since when did schools or roads pay for themselves?

Ok...I'm done.

[dubone]

debunking is not possible without a major force on the opposite extreme turns around and starts pushing it. if mccrory, cox, and the other pro-transit republicans and major numbers proving it is 5 times more cost efficient haven't been enough to get people to understand the benefits, then it is just a lost cause among that demographic...

but when your big business man, who centers his entire business life around the automobile says he's putting his own money behind it, and it is a no-brainer and needs to be built immediately... i think that is crowd-husher.

[pb4uxplode]

I personally think the timeline associated with the entire rail system is just too slow. I live west of Charlotte and the westward expansion isn't scheduled to be completed until 2025. Thats 20 years away so it almost makes it seem like it will never happen. Its only about 12 miles to connect uptown to Belmont and there is plenty of room to make the transit system. I wish they would hurry the mass transit program up because it would definitely help propel Charlotte into a very bright future. Look at NY, Chicago, and LA. The mass transit in those three places are what made them grow so fast in my opinion.

[dubone]

i know the small gaston county catawba river towns have been looking into a historic trolley line. Mt Holly, Belmont , McAdenville, and Cramerton all have very quaint and nice downtowns with a lot of potential. If those localities can get their trolley connection off the ground, they can begin their own TOD growth/revitalization. Then, when BRT/Commuter rail comes down the 85/us74/railroad corridor, they will all be plugged into the regional transit system.

It all starts with the building interest. I'm hopeful that they pull that off in the next 5-10 years, as it will help speed up plans for transit between gaston and charlotte.

[Sabaidee]

In the Mt. Holly, Belmont area, there's already an abandoned rail right of way owned by the state. I think it was last year or so, some local news did a news segment on it and that leaders in those towns want to use that right of way to start a trolley service.

[dubone]

that is what i'm referring to... this is a plan already, not just an idea i had. many of the original motormen and historians that started charlotte's project have signed on to help spur the gaston trolley.

towns like Mt Holly and Belmont have tremendous potential. Mt Holly is cool because it is elevated, and you get killer views of charlotte's skyline from some places.

[Sabaidee]

Go take some pictures lol.

[dubone]

lol. maybe i will.

[Sabaidee]

The view of the skyline from the west is so rare

[pb4uxplode]

I think the view from the west is pretty darn nice. I come in that way every morning as I live in Cramerton and you get the absolute best view of the Juke Box compared to any other location. When you get onto 277 where Wilkinson hits it the skyline looks pretty darn nice. The only thing that sucks is that the Hertz Tower is blocked by the Corporate Center from most views coming into town.

[cinco]

The only thing that sucks is that the Hertz Tower is blocked by the Corporate Center from most views coming into town.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what about the avis tower? lol