Differences in Durham and Winston-Salem, the differences in both cities

[Raleighsfinest]

Winston-Salem is nice, but the fun lies in Greenboro, for that region. Winston is very slow (that's not an insult though). I have a couple of friends that go to college there. They are going nuts.

Even when my sister lived there, she complained about having to go to Greenboro for everything. I think this is due to the fact that Winston is not as diverse and lacks youngsters. It's mostly a traditional family type of place. Clemmons is a very peaceful place too.

[Sharpless]

Transportation: Durham has passenger rail service, but no airport. Winston has a very small airport, but no passenger rail service.

RDU is co-owned by the City and County of Durham along with Raleigh and Wake County. The airport is located midway between Downtown Durham and Downtown Raleigh, at the edge of Wake County and only about 2 miles from the Durham City limits.

[sax184]

Durham is actually bigger than Winston-Salem (201,000 to 191,000). Forsyth County is bigger than Durham County however.

As far as arts are concerned in Durham, one must also consider Duke's Nasher Museum of Art as well as NCCU's art museum, AND the fact that it's becoming a veritable mecca of artists (like painters, sculptors and crafty folks moreso than a breeding ground for indie rock bands, etc.).

Durham's also a fairly important place for film: the Full Frame Documentary Film Fest (hailed by the NY Times as "the premier documentary film festival in the country") is headquartered downtown and the NC Gay & Lesbian Film Festival takes place here (now the second largest GLBT fest in the southeast - Miami's is first).

I'm no expert on W-S, but I haven't heard of any of their tobacco warehouse being converted to retail, living or office space. If there has been any such conversion, I'd love to read about it.

Ask and you shall receive!

Winston is home to the largest movie sound stage on the East Coast outside of NYC. NCSA has a hollywood-style backlot which you can see here. Every 2 years, Winston hosts the National Black Theater Festival.

Winston is also home to the River Run Film Festival. Mockumentary guru Christopher Guest premiered "A Mighty Wind" at River Run a few years back.

As for old tobacco building conversions, Winston was doing it before Durham, if only by a year or two. Piedmont Leaf Lofts (link with photos) was completed before West Village was in Durham. They are now working to complete a second phase of the building across the street, which sold out in 3 hours the day it went on the market. I know because I called about 2 hours too late.

The Gallery is a new project that got underway recently to convert the Brown and Williamson tobacco factory to lofts.

Already open and quickly filling up with residents is the Nissen Apartments- a 1920s era Art Deco skyscraper of 16-19 stories with high-end apartments that will also have an Italian restaurant on the ground floor. The new Mellow Mushroom has just opened next door on 4th Street.

Parts of other tobacco-era infrastructure have already been converted to use for research space. Pharmaceutical startup Targacept is the young but big fish in the Piedmont Triad Research Park. Offices for similar companies can be found in Albert Hall on this webpage.

The top floor of Albert Hall also contains residential for sale.

While not tobacco, the Mill at Tar Branch, which I believe is a former textile mill, was converted several years back and the developer is now completing an infill project that looks just as old across the street called Tar Branch Towers.

[triadguy37]

Durham is actually bigger than Winston-Salem (201,000 to 191,000). Forsyth County is bigger than Durham County however.

As far as arts are concerned in Durham, one must also consider Duke's Nasher Museum of Art as well as NCCU's art museum, AND the fact that it's becoming a veritable mecca of artists (like painters, sculptors and crafty folks moreso than a breeding ground for indie rock bands, etc.).

Durham's also a fairly important place for film: the Full Frame Documentary Film Fest (hailed by the NY Times as "the premier documentary film festival in the country") is headquartered downtown and the NC Gay & Lesbian Film Festival takes place here (now the second largest GLBT fest in the southeast - Miami's is first).

I'm no expert on W-S, but I haven't heard of any of their tobacco warehouse being converted to retail, living or office space. If there has been any such conversion, I'd love to read about it.

Durham will not be bigger after next month when Winston-Salem's annexation goes through. Winston-Salem will have a population of 218,000.

[MR-2]

Durham will not be bigger after next month when Winston-Salem's annexation goes through. Winston-Salem will have a population of 218,000.

Durham isn't growing slower than Winston-Salem. I expect the two to oscillate between 4th and 5th largest municipality for many years. However, Durham will still have a larger MSA and CSA.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

IS Winston-Salem getting a FIVE GUYS before Durham does?

[suburban george3]

IS Winston-Salem getting a FIVE GUYS before Durham does?

[basket1058]

The tradition of tobacco manufacturing and the presence of well respected, private universities (Wake, Duke) are certainly the two most obvious points of similariy between the cities but there are some significant diverging points.

Durham is a thoroughly industrial age city with tobacco warehouses being some of the most siginificant and oldest structures you'll find in the city, whereas Winston-Salem has Old Salem and the history surrounding that community which makes for a far different historical context than Durham. Of course, Durham has a wonderful gothic feel, due primarily to Duke U. and the tobacco warehouses, while Winston-Salem is primarily of a colonial character.

Regrettably a lot of Durham's economic activity is relegated to the fringes of the city, in part due to Highway design and RTP, whereas Winston retains a strong downtown employment base.

Of course, Durham also seems to have the setback of being the state's least talked about city. I don't know why but the city seems to be something of an afterthought in the triangle region and most North Carolinians who go down to the Triangle seem to press on down to Raleigh. I myself have to admit that despite being a lifelong NC resident i've been to the urban core of Durham around three times. This is not meant to be a diss on Durham just something of a suspicion. Does anyone else perceive Durham as a city flying under the radar? Anyone have any explanations for this?

[triadguy37]

The tradition of tobacco manufacturing and the presence of well respected, private universities (Wake, Duke) are certainly the two most obvious points of similariy between the cities but there are some significant diverging points.

Durham is a thoroughly industrial age city with tobacco warehouses being some of the most siginificant and oldest structures you'll find in the city, whereas Winston-Salem has Old Salem and the history surrounding that community which makes for a far different historical context than Durham. Of course, Durham has a wonderful gothic feel, due primarily to Duke U. and the tobacco warehouses, while Winston-Salem is primarily of a colonial character.

Regrettably a lot of Durham's economic activity is relegated to the fringes of the city, in part due to Highway design and RTP, whereas Winston retains a strong downtown employment base.

Of course, Durham also seems to have the setback of being the state's least talked about city. I don't know why but the city seems to be something of an afterthought in the triangle region and most North Carolinians who go down to the Triangle seem to press on down to Raleigh. I myself have to admit that despite being a lifelong NC resident i've been to the urban core of Durham around three times. This is not meant to be a diss on Durham just something of a suspicion. Does anyone else perceive Durham as a city flying under the radar? Anyone have any explanations for this?

[davidals]

I'm not getting into city comparisons here ( ), but I will give Winston credit for a couple esoteric cultural things, for whatever they are worth:

1. In the post-punk, post-hippe era (musically speaking), W-S was probably the first, and for a number of years was the only, NC city with an underground music scene drawing in national or international attention: Rolling Stone and similar publications. Thanks to the presence of Mitch Easter, his studio (R.E.M.'s 1st EP was recorded there, followed by something like every third band to come from Athens GA between 1980 and 90), and some other college-radio all-stars of the 80s who were from there (The dBs), lived there for a while (Southern Culture On The Skids), or recorded there (those post R.E.M. Athens groups). It would have niche appeal for sure, but you could put together a solid box set of W-S rock 1980-1990, all I think very much the NC ancestor of the Triangle's more famous music underground.

2. NCSA's film program is nothing to sneeze at - David Gordon Green's debut film (George Washington, from 2000) was shot around W-S when he was fresh out of the school, and it become one of the very few debut features (from a filmmaker not yet 30 years old) to get accepted straight out of the gate into the Cannes and Sundance film festivals. Green talked the school up a bit in some of his TV appearances promoting the film.

W-S may not seem to be as overtly boosterish regarding it's own creative community and their varied activities as some other cities in the state, but there definitely have been and continue to be some significant things going on there.

[NcSc74]

I always thought of Winston and Durham as two of the closest cities that are alike. Not just tobbacco but also home to research and small well reknown universities. Although I have not been to Durham other than a casual drive thru I know I can get more of gritty city feel than Raleigh. Not bashing or saying anything bad about Raleigh at all. I am just pointing out the differences between the two. As for Winston my sister attended WSSU so I have been there more than a few times. I fell in love with the history and the layout of the city.

As for comparing Winston and Greensboro concerning nightlife you have to look at the facts. G-boro has NCA&T, Bennett college and UNC-G all within the boundaries of downtown. Thats a college age population of about 20,000 students full time, part time and grads. I may be under-estimating that number as it has been over 10 years since I left A&T myself. So if you look at that number or course you will have more nightlife because you have more of that age demographic. IMO both cities benefit from there neighbor cities and they most certainly compliment each other.

By the way I do love Greensboro. It is on my short list of cities to settle down in along with Charlotte and Raleigh...well maybe even Durham if the price is right.

[krazeeboi]

Does anyone else perceive Durham as a city flying under the radar? Anyone have any explanations for this?

[cityboi]

The media is partially to blame for that sentiment also (especially the folks on a local morning radio show in Raleigh). A few years back Winston-Salem was labeled as a dangerous place, especially by people in Greensboro. That coupled with the fact that GSO and WS compete against each other didn't help either. That may also be another difference in Durham and Winston-Salam. There doesn't seem to be the stiff competition between Durham and Raleigh like there is between Winston and Greensboro. But there are probably folks in the Triangle that would have a different opinion on city cooperation/competition.

[Spatula]

Crime and race relations.

[serapis]

I hate, hate, hate, hearing all of this crime nonsense, like Durham is B-more or Philly. Durham had 12 murders in 2006! Nobody talks about that! Raleigh had 20! Numerically Raleigh has more crime than Durham, but seems to hide behind the veil of per capita rates. Neither of these cities are dangerous. Their more like heaven, when compared to other major cities.....

[suburban george3]

Neither city has had a 'stellar' reputation in regional perception of crime rates, even though I do believe Durham has gotten the 'short-end' of the stick(unfairly in my belief) in the discussions concerning crime. I also feel as many people who come down for college and then leave the area are not necessarily portraying a 'glowing' image of Durham to people. While there are many similarities between the two cities, there are some other differences:

• Durham was never the lead city in the Triangle region(Raleigh, being the capital, has always been the premier city of the Triangle.) or the state (Winston-Salem was the state's largest during the early 20th century)

• The downtown core is more developed in W-S, thanks to other industries besides tobacco.

• Durham is on a primary N-S interstate route (a key ingredient for growth on the East Coast, IMO)

• RTP proximity has helped fuel Durham's population growth to having passed W-S.

• Winston-Salem seems to get more 'positive' press than Durham from regional news sources(outside of Duke University News.)

Durham will probably continue to enjoy a faster growth rate than W-S(unless we stay in this drought and water issues come into play) for the next few years. W-S does have the potential to pass Durham in population again, but they may be playing musical chairs in the rankings for decades to come.

[triadguy37]

Neither city has had a 'stellar' reputation in regional perception of crime rates, even though I do believe Durham has gotten the 'short-end' of the stick(unfairly in my belief) in the discussions concerning crime. I also feel as many people who come down for college and then leave the area are not necessarily portraying a 'glowing' image of Durham to people. While there are many similarities between the two cities, there are some other differences:

• Durham was never the lead city in the Triangle region(Raleigh, being the capital, has always been the premier city of the Triangle.) or the state (Winston-Salem was the state's largest during the early 20th century)

• The downtown core is more developed in W-S, thanks to other industries besides tobacco.

• Durham is on a primary N-S interstate route (a key ingredient for growth on the East Coast, IMO)

• RTP proximity has helped fuel Durham's population growth to having passed W-S.

• Winston-Salem seems to get more 'positive' press than Durham from regional news sources(outside of Duke University News.)

Durham will probably continue to enjoy a faster growth rate than W-S(unless we stay in this drought and water issues come into play) for the next few years. W-S does have the potential to pass Durham in population again, but they may be playing musical chairs in the rankings for decades to come.

[suburban george3]

Winston-Salem already surpassed Durham in population last year after they did a mass annexation. Winston-Salem population after annexation was around 218,000, but some say its more around 230,000. I seen it announced on the news last year that Winston-Salem had surpassed Durham as NC 4th largest city. I read in the WS Journal a few weeks back that the city council is in the process of counting every citizen and many feel that when the count is complete it will surpass 230,000. We'll see, but currenlty WS holds the rank of NC 4th largest just a few thousand behind Greensboro.

[basket1058]

Durham was never the lead city in the Triangle region(Raleigh, being the capital, has always been the premier city of the Triangle.) or the state (Winston-Salem was the state's largest during the early 20th century)

[davidals]

While its status as a state capital has always given it special prominence, it was not until the 1950's or 60's that Raleigh bust onto the scene as the Triangle's most dominant city. Durhams for about most of the 1st half of the 20th century was the Triangle's manufacturing center, whereas Raleigh's economy was little more than state government and higher education, that is until RTP, and the rest, well we all know the results of that.

[Spatula]

I'm pretty sure Durham was the largest city in the Triangle for most of NC's history. I think it also represents the cultural center of the Triangle, even if Raleigh is starting to build its own reputation outside of government matters.

[FriskyDingo]

Both cities are more widely recognized than many larger cities and probably as recognizeable nationally as Raleigh and Charlotte due to:

1. The prestigious, highly respected private universities located there.

2. The recognizeable brands that people associate with them:

Winston-Salem...Winston and Salem, the cigarettes

Durham...Bull Durham, the movie

3. Both cities are well-known for a high level of college basketball, even by non sports fans.

4. Wake Forest 24, FSU 21 (that just needed to be said!)

[winston's finest]

both cities are very similar although winston-salems's downtown and urban planning give it the feeling of a much larger city. truly, the Research Triangle has been very beneficial for Durham but more for Raleigh because although many people in the triangle work at RTP in durham and other places, they live in raleigh. therefore much of the so-called professional feeling stems from that. I find it interesting becasue several post on here have commented on the NASCAR feel that Winston-salem has, which is something that most people in the city don't think about or really see. It isn't as prevalent here as it may appear but it truly can be seen more in Charlotte than anywhere else.

The city of Winston-Salem is just as professional as the triangle and has many educated people, but it the size of the city/county and surrounding areas must be taken into consideration when comparing it to Durham which is very small.

The only reason several of the stores and restaurants, brought up earlier, aren't in Winston-Salem yet just because the proper deverlopments haven't been completed yet for them. Several of those places have shown interest in the city and are planning to come soon in several of the upcoming shopping areas sprouting up around town. Many desire to come, but are waiting for the downtown population to grow enough and have the right development becasue they really want to be in that up-and-coming desireable area- NORDSTROM!!!

Anyway, many of the places mentioned in Durham are only there and not Raleigh becasue they are shared and the companies don't feel the area can support two yet.

[Durhamite]

4. Wake Forest 24, FSU 21 (that just needed to be said!)

[winston's finest]

sorry one correction for Durhamite...is that Winston-Salem still has BB&T.

it hasnt gone anywhere.