Razorback Greenway and other NWA Trail Systems

[Mith242]

Maybe they will go back and it is just being done in phases.....

M

Possible I guess but it seems like the other times they did it it was all done at once. I'd also think they would have gotten back to it by now as well. I mean almost all the tunnel was done. Just seems like they missed that western edge of it on the north half. I guess it's not really a big deal. It's just that it doesn't seem to get power washed but a number of times a year. Guess I was just hoping that they'd get it really good while they were there. But I also guess that at this time of year the usage of the trail system will drop down. People aren't going to be wanting to get out during many parts of winter to hit the trail system. By the time Spring rolls around it will probably be time for another power wash anyway.

[zman9810]

Possible I guess but it seems like the other times they did it it was all done at once. I'd also think they would have gotten back to it by now as well. I mean almost all the tunnel was done. Just seems like they missed that western edge of it on the north half. I guess it's not really a big deal. It's just that it doesn't seem to get power washed but a number of times a year. Guess I was just hoping that they'd get it really good while they were there. But I also guess that at this time of year the usage of the trail system will drop down. People aren't going to be wanting to get out during many parts of winter to hit the trail system. By the time Spring rolls around it will probably be time for another power wash anyway.

Might have been time to get off work

It's kind of funny that trail usage would go down in the winter- that's by far my favorite time to hit the trails. From late fall to early spring the insects are gone, you don't sweat to death or worry about heat stroke and the views are much better. Like Tim Ernst calls it- leaf-off is hiking season. Guess maybe it's a hiking trail view of things and not a urban trail way of looking at it.

[mzweig]

Possible I guess but it seems like the other times they did it it was all done at once. I'd also think they would have gotten back to it by now as well. I mean almost all the tunnel was done. Just seems like they missed that western edge of it on the north half. I guess it's not really a big deal. It's just that it doesn't seem to get power washed but a number of times a year. Guess I was just hoping that they'd get it really good while they were there. But I also guess that at this time of year the usage of the trail system will drop down. People aren't going to be wanting to get out during many parts of winter to hit the trail system. By the time Spring rolls around it will probably be time for another power wash anyway.

Sounds like they prolly just did a half-assed job. Too bad that is what happened. I agree with Z-Man--I like the winter time for walking the trail. It's nice and cool, you can see, and you know you'll have good footing!

M

[Mith242]

Might have been time to get off work

It's kind of funny that trail usage would go down in the winter- that's by far my favorite time to hit the trails. From late fall to early spring the insects are gone, you don't sweat to death or worry about heat stroke and the views are much better. Like Tim Ernst calls it- leaf-off is hiking season. Guess maybe it's a hiking trail view of things and not a urban trail way of looking at it.

True, maybe usage won't drop off as much as I think. Although I think a number of people who use the trail for exercising will drop off a bit as the weather gets colder.

[Mith242]

The main bridge on the Lake Fayetteville Trail extension is is place. As I've mentioned before it's the longest pedestrian bridge in the city coming in at 240 ft. Early next week a second 35 ft bridge will go in. But with this time of year they'll have to wait for a little warmer weather before they can pour the concrete. The city is hoping to have this extension ready by next month. Then after that they'll start focusing on the eastern end of the Mudd Creek Trail. I've been calling it the Mudd Creek extension but apparently the section between the current Mudd Creek Trail and Gulley Park is now being called the Niokaska Creek Trail.

[zman9810]

The main bridge on the Lake Fayetteville Trail extension is is place. As I've mentioned before it's the longest pedestrian bridge in the city coming in at 240 ft. Early next week a second 35 ft bridge will go in. But with this time of year they'll have to wait for a little warmer weather before they can pour the concrete. The city is hoping to have this extension ready by next month. Then after that they'll start focusing on the eastern end of the Mudd Creek Trail. I've been calling it the Mudd Creek extension but apparently the section between the current Mudd Creek Trail and Gulley Park is now being called the Niokaska Creek Trail.

I never had heard of Niokaska Creek until this trail project came up. Interesting name - I Googled it and here's a link that came up. The short story is that earlier this year the students at Root Elementary took the initiative to name this stream close to their school. It is Niokaska Creek all the way to the Paradise Valley Golf Course where it reverts back to the name Mud Creek.

My link

[Mith242]

I never had heard of Niokaska Creek until this trail project came up. Interesting name - I Googled it and here's a link that came up. The short story is that earlier this year the students at Root Elementary took the initiative to name this stream close to their school. It is Niokaska Creek all the way to the Paradise Valley Golf Course where it reverts back to the name Mud Creek.

My link

Cool, thanks for the link, but I can't seem to get that link to work. I'd never heard of it before either till that bit of news came up. Never thought about looking it up. Although right now I'd be happy if Cox could keep my internet up for now.

Okay let's see if this link works.

http://matthewpetty.org/content/new-name-mud-creek

[Mith242]

Sorry I know this is off topic, but I thought I had seen something a while back ago that had the spelling as Mudd Creek not Mud Creek. But now that I'm looking around all I'm seeing is the way you'd usually spell mud. No idea why I thought all this time it was spelled the other way. The same way it's Scull Creek not Skull Creek. I feel silly now having been spelling it like that all this time now.

[zman9810]

Cool, thanks for the link, but I can't seem to get that link to work. I'd never heard of it before either till that bit of news came up. Never thought about looking it up. Although right now I'd be happy if Cox could keep my internet up for now.

Okay let's see if this link works.

http://matthewpetty.org/content/new-name-mud-creek

Thanks, that's the webpage I was trying to post. I'm still learning the new look UP.org.

Yeah, I think Mud Creek refers to a actually muddy creek and not named after someone. There are a lot of funny descriptive names like that- I think I remeber you posting aobut Cow Face Road in Benton County.

[Mith242]

Looks like the Lake Fayetteville Trail extension is coming along pretty well now. It looks like overall most of it is done. At this time of year I thought it might be hard to get the concrete poured for the bridges. But it looks like they've done it. Although the bridges are still shut off to let the concrete dry. But it looked pretty dry to me. From what I could tell looks like all the asphalt is down too. I didn't try to get past the bridges but it looked like all the asphalt might be down. After the holidays I'll have to check it out the next 'nice' day we get.

[Mith242]

Well since today was a pretty nice day out for the official start of 'winter' I had to check out the Lake Fayetteville Trail extension again. This time the bridges and concrete section was open. I was surprised that the trail extension seemed longer than I thought. I thought it was going to end right at the Botanical Garden of the Ozarks. I guess maybe part of it is just considered the 'sidewalk' but it was a wide sidewalk that seemed to be up to trail standards. It seemed to go all the way to the property edge south. There was a break in the paved section but looked like another paved section started back up heading west away from the street. Still some minor work is being done. Looks like some gravel and dirt is still being put down on the edges of the trail in some sections. Some sections have a big drop off on the sides. Now that this trail extension is pretty much done in the near future work should start on the Mud Creek Trail extension/Niokaska Creek Trail. I'm hoping by Spring maybe they'll finally get that last section of the Frisco Trail done between Maple and Spring St as well.

[zman9810]

I drive Old Missouri Road on a regular basis and wonder at the wisdom of narrowing a major collector street at a bridge in order to provide room for a trail. It's only been a few years since a lot of money was spent to widen and improve the safety of Old Missouri and the plan to narrow it over the Mud Creek bridge from 30 feet to 24 feet seems counter-productive. This is a heavily traveled street mornings and afternoons and to place a bottleneck over a bridge seems to put not only the drivers using the street at risk but also the people using the trail. This will be an accident waiting to happen with certain bad consequences for whoever is involved.

A better plan (the original one) would be to extend the trail along Mud Creek to where it would turn south at Niokaska Creek. Since this would be through the middle of Paradise Valley Golf Course and probably isn't feasible, a path along the south side of the golf course could be looked at. With Jim Lindsey's well known interest in Fayetteville being a great place to live he might be persuaded to allow this with safeguards for the golf course. If not, a plan with the trail going under the Old Missouri Road bridge and one of the popular steel bridges used to cross the creek on the east side could be looked at.

[Mith242]

I drive Old Missouri Road on a regular basis and wonder at the wisdom of narrowing a major collector street at a bridge in order to provide room for a trail. It's only been a few years since a lot of money was spent to widen and improve the safety of Old Missouri and the plan to narrow it over the Mud Creek bridge from 30 feet to 24 feet seems counter-productive. This is a heavily traveled street mornings and afternoons and to place a bottleneck over a bridge seems to put not only the drivers using the street at risk but also the people using the trail. This will be an accident waiting to happen with certain bad consequences for whoever is involved.

A better plan (the original one) would be to extend the trail along Mud Creek to where it would turn south at Niokaska Creek. Since this would be through the middle of Paradise Valley Golf Course and probably isn't feasible, a path along the south side of the golf course could be looked at. With Jim Lindsey's well known interest in Fayetteville being a great place to live he might be persuaded to allow this with safeguards for the golf course. If not, a plan with the trail going under the Old Missouri Road bridge and one of the popular steel bridges used to cross the creek on the east side could be looked at.

I'm guessing they're in part going with the thinking that narrower lanes will slow people down. I don't know for sure how the city will do this but I'm assuming they'll put up those concrete barriers like they have on the Scull Creek Trail when it goes right up to Milsap. So I think pedestrians won't have any problem. But I guess that still could cause problems for drivers. I got the impression the city had looked into having the trail run along the south edge of the golf course. But for some reason that never worked out. Not sure what happened there. I'll have some more details on upcoming schedule on the trail system later today.

[Mith242]

I've sent an email to our Trails coordinator, Matt Mihalevich about crossing Old Missouri Rd on the Mud Creek Trail extension. Hopefully I'll get a response later today. As I've mentioned before the next work that will done of the trail system now is the Mud Creek Trail extension over to Sweetbriar. The Niokaska Trail is being put off till 2011. Sounds like there might be problems with some of the home owners over in that area. By mid January they are hoping to start work on connecting the Frisco Trail sections together.

By the way the Lake Fayetteville Trail extension does extend further than I thought. Apparently about a half mile past the edge of Crossover. In fact there's only about a mile left to connect back to Veterans Park and have a big paved loop around the lake. Work on the last mile probably won't happen till 2011 though.

Sounds like the big project for the upcoming year in 2010 will be a new trail extending westward from the Scull Creek Trail over to the Porter St exit on I-540. I'm not sure where exactly the trail will go but apparently they are working with the U of A to have the trail go around the Agri section. I've noticed on Google Earth there is a creek on the west side of Garland that runs through that section of the Agri land. Not sure if they might follow it or simply try to follow the southern edge of the Agri land. I was wondering if they were going to set up another pedestrian crossing across Garland like they did on North St. They have to look more at the feasibility but they're actually considering trying to put in a pedestrian bridge over Garland instead. I really like that idea, especially since we know at some point that section of Garland will be widened. Of course we'll have to see how much a pedestrian bridge is going to cost. Then it might depend on how much funding or grants they can get or for that matter how city's economy is doing as well. Matt Mihalevich, also mentioned they might consider a pedestrian tunnel as well. But that probably wouldn't be the favorable choice, considering the flooding maintenance problems on the other tunnels. The Porter St interchange probably is the best route to push the trail system out west. The other options have a lot more traffic on them. I'll have to ask what the name of this new trail is going to be.

Anyway that's all the info I have so far on the upcoming trail work.

[Mith242]

First, for now the new trail is simply being called the U of A Farm Trail. But they may rename it. I'll just be happy to see the trail built, but I admit the name doesn't really do it for me.

Concerning having the Mudd Creek continue eastward and follow the southern edge of the gold course. Looks like the city was worried about having the problem with people possibly getting hit with stray gold balls. Perhaps there might even be possible lawsuits involved. So they thought it would be best to simply avoid the golf course. Looks like the trail will be on the west side of Old Missouri, then near Sweetbriar it will cross Old Missouri. There will be a raised crosswalk like other areas and there will also be a motion detected flashing signal as well. Would have been nice if the trail could have gone under the bridge and used the east side of Old Missouri. But guess there just wasn't the room needed. That or there was problems with the land on that side. Here's a map showing details of the Mud Creek Trail extension.

[zman9810]

I went a took a better look at the Old Missouri Road bridge over Mud Creek and there is no legit reason to force trail users to cross the road at street grade. There is a huge space under the bridge- much more than the Appleby or Gregg crossings. This present plan to cross Old Missouri seems to be using human beings as traffic calming devices at great risk to them and the drivers using the road. The bridge is a curved one that when approaching it from the north you can't see much of what is on the other side. When drivers are negotiating the bottleneck created they will have little time to see and avoid what ever is in the road. Saying that they need to slow down ignores the fact that some won't - when some one is injured it won't matter whose fault it was- they are still hurt. It's plans like this that cause residents to question the value of the trail program and for it to lose support.

Old Missouri Road's status as a collector street dictates that it be a certain width by ordinance. How can the city violate it's own ordinance? If a private citizen/ developer came to the city with a plan to place a bottleneck over a bridge on this street creating this dangerous situation there is no way the city would allow it. If this crossing and street narrowing is allowed it is only a matter of time until an accident happens. I would imagine within the first weeks there will be auto paint on the barrier used to narrown the street if not worse. This needs to be looked at again and a better plan developed.

Here's a photo of the space under the bridge where the trail could go. There is also plenty of space on the other side for a trail bridge so that auto traffic can be avoided competely.

[Mith242]

Okay, now that the holidays are all over with I've been meaning to get back on this. I finally got around to emailing Matt Mihalevich, our Trail Coordinator, to try to get more details on the Mud Creek Trail extension and why the current design was decided on. It sounds like the gold course wasn't very receptive to the idea of having a trail on the south side of the course. I don't know if they were concerned with possible lawsuit issues if someone was hit by a stray golf ball, or why they didn't want to cooperate. I had thought maybe having the trail go under the bridge and then extend down on the east side might have merit. But it looks like the reason why the west side of the bridge was chosen was in part because traffic tends to concentrate on the east side of the bridge because of the curve. So the west side doesn't typically see as much traffic on it. I had thought a concrete barrier like the one on Scull Creek Trail just south of the Fulbright Expressway Tunnel would be used. But they are two feet wide and would take up too much space. So a tall curb is going to be installed with reflective posts. Probably something a bit like what was on Front St bridge. But since those were just placed on the street level they got hit over time and aren't in too good of shape now. But hopefully having that and a tall curb will help. The width of the lanes on the bridge will be 12 ft, which is the width of a typical interstate lane. All of this may not be the optimum design, but hopefully there won't be to many problems with the current design.

[zman9810]

Okay, now that the holidays are all over with I've been meaning to get back on this. I finally got around to emailing Matt Mihalevich, our Trail Coordinator, to try to get more details on the Mud Creek Trail extension and why the current design was decided on. It sounds like the gold course wasn't very receptive to the idea of having a trail on the south side of the course. I don't know if they were concerned with possible lawsuit issues if someone was hit by a stray golf ball, or why they didn't want to cooperate. I had thought maybe having the trail go under the bridge and then extend down on the east side might have merit. But it looks like the reason why the west side of the bridge was chosen was in part because traffic tends to concentrate on the east side of the bridge because of the curve. So the west side doesn't typically see as much traffic on it. I had thought a concrete barrier like the one on Scull Creek Trail just south of the Fulbright Expressway Tunnel would be used. But they are two feet wide and would take up too much space. So a tall curb is going to be installed with reflective posts. Probably something a bit like what was on Front St bridge. But since those were just placed on the street level they got hit over time and aren't in too good of shape now. But hopefully having that and a tall curb will help. The width of the lanes on the bridge will be 12 ft, which is the width of a typical interstate lane. All of this may not be the optimum design, but hopefully there won't be to many problems with the current design.

This Mud Creek Trail extension plan seems to be the perfect storm of misplaced priorities and political pressure. The trails program is in a rush to show results by making connections quickly and at a lower price. By being able to have bragging rights about adding X number of trail feet at a bargain price they hope to gain support. These priorities are sacrificing the safety of both trail users and vehicle drivers and creating bad traffic flow in a area where much money has been spent to smooth the traffic flow.

The Mud Creek plan has been shaped by pressure from Jim Lindsey to stay away from Paradise Valley Golf Course and residents of the high dollar Brookhaven Estates subdivision just to the south of Mud Creek. The golf ball defense is a joke- there is no liablity to the city from putting the trail under the bridge and over the creek on the east side of Old Missouri. It would be in the city rightaway and there is plenty of room to do so. The distance from where the trail would be to where cars drive on the bridge is minimal- if is is unsafe for trails users why hasn't it been unsafe for the vehicles that drive along the course everyday or the many residents that live immediately adjacent to the course?

Some residents of Brookhaven Estates have demanded the trail go on the west side of Old Missouri so they will have a direct connection to it. This is a sad example of the rich and powerfull telling the city what to do and the city meekly going along with it.

The reasoning of the traffic lanes being interstate highway width is deceptive. I've added a photo to illustrate why. All the narrowing will be done from the west side of the bridge. The drivers in that southbound lane will have to jog over and partially drive in what is now the opposing lane. Because it is a curved bridge the southbound drivers generally drive on the center line forcing the northbound drivers to go over further right. This plan diminishes the safety zones for both lanes. The city says this trail plan isn't being done for trafic calming purposes but later says that is will help slow traffic down. Guess what? Slowing traffic down is what traffic calming is! The trail users are being used as traffic calming devices at their risk and the drivers risk.

The second photo is of the Front Street bridge over Mud Creek and the reflectors that have been ran over many times. This is on a straight stretch of road where the narrowing has been done equally on both sides. The other difference will be the Old Missouri bridge will have a curb. The idea of safety depending on drivers not jumping a curb is another example of why this is a bad plan and needs to be rethought.

[Mith242]

I will admit that this isn't the 'optimum' design. But if it came down to a choice of no trail being built there and the current design I'd easily choose the current design. I do hope the city puts the markers on top of the tall curb and not just on the street like Front St. Although those markers on Front St have been in bad shape for quite a while now. Long before the trail was put in over there. I'm sure Front St gets a lot less traffic than Old Missouri. But I've never seen any problems really even with the current design on Front St. I've never seen anyone who was almost hit there. Although the city sometime is planning on redesigning the trail over on Front St as well. It's unfortunately that a few wealthy people can dictate how the trail can be put in. But I guess that's typically the way it generally works. I do see how there can be potential for some problems. I guess I'm just hoping that it's not going to be too much of a problem once drivers get used to the new design. The city is supposed to start pushing the 'share the road' idea sometime. Having more bicycles out on the streets, not just on the trail system. I admit to being hesitant at first when I got my bicycle last year to use the bicycle lanes to get up to Lake Fayetteville and some other areas of the city. But it's not really been too big of an issue. I can't say there won't be any problems on the Old Missouri bridge. But I do think people in vehicles are going to have to start getting used to more pedestrian traffic. The trail system is going to keep growing and as I mentioned before, the city is going to be pushing the idea of vehicles sharing the road with bicycles at some point. There's always going to be a few jerks out there. But overall I've been impressed just how I really haven't had any problems with being out on the road with my bicycle. Hopefully I'm not being overly optimistic on this Mud Creek trail extension and there won't be too many problems.

[zman9810]

I guess for me the big problem with this plan (besides the obvious safety deficiencies and the traffic congestion it will cause) is the fact that there is a easily used alternative path under the bridge and over a separate bridge on the other side. It's not like the North Street and Sycamore crossings where there isn't another path without building a multi-million dollar overpass or tunnel just for the trail. The policy being established of forcing trail users to share roadways built for motor vehicles is a bad one, as is the policy of using trail users as traffic calming devices.

It is easy to say drivers have to learn to accomodate the trail users but that ignores the reality of how people drive and how trail users use the trail. How many times have all of us been behind a unattentive driver on their cell phone or reaching into their back seat? That's not going to change just because some bridge lanes are bottlenecked or a bump in the road has flashing lights next to it. Some trail users are still going to force the issue by crossing when traffic is coming.

In a ten minute period on a weekday afternoon I counted 104 vehicles at the Old Missouri Road bridge with a loaded dump truck being one of them. The amount of congestion this plan is going to cause leads me to think why should we pay to improve any other roads in Fayetteville when we are going to turn around cause them to be congested again?

[Mith242]

This isn't exactly dealing directly with the Fayetteville Trail system. But it does affect bicyclists who also use the trail system. I knew eventually Fayetteville was going to be pushing the 'Share the Road' program. More info has now come out. Apparently there was a meeting at the Fayetteville Public Library yesterday (wish I had heard about this before and not afterward). Soon streets will start getting the 'Sharrow' thermoplastic logos every 250 ft. Streets that will be getting them this year are; Rupple, Sycamore, Lafayette, Winwood, Spring, Township and Salam. Also Rupple and Appleby will be getting some bike lanes put in as well. One thing mentioned to the city is that the city needs to make more of an effort to keep bike lanes swept and clean. Some bicyclists avoid bike lanes because they often get tire piercing debris. While I do prefer using the Fayetteville Trail System, it's understandable that the trail system can't go everywhere. So long as the city doesn't stop building trails and this is used to help supplement the trail system I don't have any problem with it. Overall the basic theme seems to be to put in bike lanes where there is enough room. Otherwise Sharrow logos will be used instead. For now the city is also looking at implementing this on smaller, and overall less used streets. Although some of those streets listed are some well traveled roads. But still a good idea to slowly get more drivers used to the idea of bicyclists being out on the roads.

[Mith242]

Saw some more details on the upcoming 'UA Farm Trail' and the upcoming schedule this year for the trail system. Overall the plan is yo put in 3 miles of trails for 2010. Most of it being the UA Farm Trail being 2.4 miles. One thing I didn't realize is that it will connect the Scull Creek Trail over to the .6 mile Hamestring Creek Trail. I've never checked out the Hamestring Creek Trail before, it's off on it's own and not too long. Once completed the UA Farm/Hamesting Creek Trail will offer three miles or trail one way off the Scull Creek Trail. Still not totally sure about the placement of the new trail. It's been mentioned as being a bit north of Poplar. I'm guessing the southern border of the U of A Agri land just north of that apartment complex over there. Then connecting the Frisco Trail together will take up .4 of a mile. Leaving about .2 of a mile for the Mud Creek Trail extension. After the Mud Creek Trail extension I'm not sure which project will come next. I'm guessing the Frisco Trail because the UA Farm Trail is probably going to take some time to get all of it completed.

[Mith242]

I asked Matt Mihalevich about the work redoing the section of the Mud Creek Trail around Front St. I'm hoping it will eventually get worked on sometime later this year. But right now the design is still at the Transportation division. Saw a survey crew out on the Scull Creek Trail today. They appeared to be in the general vicinity of where the new trail will branch off, so I'm guessing it's work related to that project later this year. I did find out the UA Farm Trail, is just a preliminary name. I haven't been a big fan of that name. But looks like there's a big process even just for the naming of these trails. It goes to the Sidewalks and Trails Task Force, Parks Board and even City Council. They generally like to name the trails after the nearby creeks. So far any of the trails tend to follow greenspace around creeks. There is a creek on the western part of the U of A Agri area, but it's an unnamed creek. I proposed a few names related to the Razorbacks with it going through university owned land. But who knows what we'll end up with after all those groups. They were out powerwashing parts of the Scull Creek Trail. Cleaning up the Fulbright Expressway tunnel and some of the areas nearby where there was a lot of debris left from when crews went in to cut down a lot of dead limbs and such from last winter's ice storm. The city has also painted over all the graffiti in Fulbright Expressway tunnel and the Appleby tunnel that has popped in the the past 3-4 months. It also looks like the new lights they've been putting into the tunnels are brighter than what was in previously. Nice to get a bit more lighting, especially in the Fulbright Expressway tunnel. One of the local stations also had a bit of a story on the Rogers Trail system. Although I really didn't see a lot of details. Just that the city is still slowly working on adding more trails and trying to connect areas together. A bit like what Fayetteville is doing. Sounds like the Walton Foundation is paying for quite a bit of the Rogers Trail system. Too bad Fayetteville doesn't have a big donor to rely on. But Fayetteville seems to be doing a pretty good job going after federal grant money and such.

[zman9810]

I had planned to make it to the Sidewalks and Trails Task Force meeting this week to express opposition to the current Mud Creek Trail extension plan and the policy precedent being established of forcing trail users to share roadway with motor vehicles even though there is a readily avaiable separate path. My plans didn't work out but there will be future meetings.

The Sidewalks and Trails Task Force seems to have a single mindset of expand the trail system as quickly as possible without regard to safety for trail users and drivers alike. There seems to be a rush to promote a bicyle network without taking into account the fact that the vast majority of Fayetteville residents drive to most of their daily events. There seems to be a small group of avid (some might say fanatical) bicycle riders that have a disproportionate amount of influence and an agenda to force everyone else to abandon their cars and trucks and ride bicycles. Of course, that is not going to happen- most people want a path to safely ride their bicycle for recreation and not have to worry about getting ran over by a half ton moving mass of metal. Most people are not going to ride a bicycle in last week's sub-freezing temps or the other extreme weather conditions we face regularly. They aren't going to carry a week's worth of groceries home on their bicycle. They aren't going to the doctor or dentist on their bicycle. They won't ride their bicycle to work when they have to run a errand at lunch time across town. There are a few, including some students for economic reasons, that ride bicycles as alternative transportation but the majority ride recreationaly. Putting recreation above the normal functioning of the economy of our city is a mistake.

[Mith242]

I had planned to make it to the Sidewalks and Trails Task Force meeting this week to express opposition to the current Mud Creek Trail extension plan and the policy precedent being established of forcing trail users to share roadway with motor vehicles even though there is a readily avaiable separate path. My plans didn't work out but there will be future meetings.

The Sidewalks and Trails Task Force seems to have a single mindset of expand the trail system as quickly as possible without regard to safety for trail users and drivers alike. There seems to be a rush to promote a bicycle network without taking into account the fact that the vast majority of Fayetteville residents drive to most of their daily events. There seems to be a small group of avid (some might say fanatical) bicycle riders that have a disproportionate amount of influence and an agenda to force everyone else to abandon their cars and trucks and ride bicycles. Of course, that is not going to happen- most people want a path to safely ride their bicycle for recreation and not have to worry about getting ran over by a half ton moving mass of metal. Most people are not going to ride a bicycle in last week's sub-freezing temps or the other extreme weather conditions we face regularly. They aren't going to carry a week's worth of groceries home on their bicycle. They aren't going to the doctor or dentist on their bicycle. They won't ride their bicycle to work when they have to run a errand at lunch time across town. There are a few, including some students for economic reasons, that ride bicycles as alternative transportation but the majority ride recreationaly. Putting recreation above the normal functioning of the economy of our city is a mistake.

I see what you're saying. But I do think the trail system plays a larger role. Granted I'm probably biased because I really do enjoy using the trail system myself. I do think the trail system gets used more often than some people may think. Although a lot of it is recreational, I've been surprised how many people I see that do use it to get groceries and such. No you can't buy a month's worth of groceries. But I see people with Walmart sacks quite a bit on the Mud Creek Trail, especially the western part of the trail that goes right by the Supercenter. But overall I think the trail system falls under one of those 'quality of life' categories. I'm not saying a company is going to choose Fayetteville just because it has a trail system. But you'd be surprised how companies look at a lot of things including that when picking a city to locate in. That being said I also realize you can't ignore a lot of other issues going on in the city just to have a trail system. But aside from the Scull Creek Trail, most of the funding has come from federal grants and such.