Razorback Greenway and other NWA Trail Systems

[Mith242]

Got some info back from Fayetteville Trail Coordinator Matt Mihalevich. Although now I've sent him back another response wanting a little more info. I'll post some maps of the plans for both trails I previously mentioned a little later when I have more time. When I first heard the talk of allowing some vehicular traffic on two future sections of trail I was a bit disappointed. But the more I read about it the less of an issue I think it will be. On the section of trail Going through the U of A Agri area, traffic should only occur three days out of the year. And to be honest I think many people like me would already be planning to avoid that section of trail when the Washington County Fair is going on whether vehicular traffic was allowed or not. Apparently another tunnel is going to be put in going under Garland Ave. That surprised me because the last I had heard was that they were looking to do a bridge instead. Not sure if the tunnel was cheaper to do than a bridge. But hopefully I'll get a response back on that shortly.

And as I had already said on the Clear Creek Trail. Traffic would only occur because of one cabin west of the Lake Fayetteville bridge. It wouldn't be a very long section and I don't think there's going to be a lot of vehicular traffic from that one cabin either. And with the location of Lokomotion and the steep grade there's not a lot of options in that area anyway. I'll get those maps up when I have the chance.

[Mith242]

Here's a map of one of the previously mentioned future trails. The U of A Agri trail map is giving me problems because of it's size. I'll see if I can do something with it and post it later. Anyway the section of trail mentioned that would have possible vehicle traffic on it would be a section of yellow on the right hand side of the map.

[Mith242]

Still having some problems with the other map. Cropping it down but still trying to show some detail. I keep losing a lot of detail but hopefully if you click on the pictures you can get enough of the detail. Anyway the section of trail that will share with vehicular traffic three days of the year is the 'north-south' section of the trail on the left hand side of the first picture. I also got a response back about the choice of a tunnel over a bridge. For one it looks like it can be done a bit cheaper than a bridge. But it also looks like the univeristy wasn't okay with the idea of a bridge. They thought it would 'take away' from the pastoral look of the land. I'm not making this up. Seems like the university has been a bit of a problem to work with on this trail. But I guess it's better than no trail at all. And if they want to use part of the university's land they have to accommodate them as best they can.

[thewizard16]

Still having some problems with the other map. Cropping it down but still trying to show some detail. I keep losing a lot of detail but hopefully if you click on the pictures you can get enough of the detail. Anyway the section of trail that will share with vehicular traffic three days of the year is the 'north-south' section of the trail on the left hand side of the first picture. I also got a response back about the choice of a tunnel over a bridge. For one it looks like it can be done a bit cheaper than a bridge. But it also looks like the univeristy wasn't okay with the idea of a bridge. They thought it would 'take away' from the pastoral look of the land. I'm not making this up. Seems like the university has been a bit of a problem to work with on this trail. But I guess it's better than no trail at all. And if they want to use part of the university's land they have to accommodate them as best they can.

It will be nice to have a trail through there, but I'm really surprised the University cares about the "pastoral" look of the land at all. When Garland finally gets turned into 4 lane through there, it's not going to look as pastoral anyway. (Although hopefully it will be a boulevard style street with trees down the center like it is closer to the main university property and thereby preserve some of that calm, natural look.)

[thewizard16]

Just saw this: http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2011/feb/15/house-gop-looks-killing-15m-grant-bike-ttrail/?latest

Womack's comment sounds pretty hollow "if the trail is critical to the future of the region" in that there's no real way to prove that. It would be unfortunate if funding is pulled for the trail, but considering the budget issues, I can't say I'd be surprised if it did get cut. It's just too bad it was promised if they're not going to get it.

House GOP looks at killing $15M grant for bike ttrail

Some Republicans in the U.S. House hope to kill a $15 million grant for a 36-mile bicycle trail between Fayetteville and Bella Vista that was awarded last fall by the federal Transportation Department.

The Southwest Times Record newspaper at Fort Smith reports that GOP leaders plan a vote in the House this week on $61 billion in proposed spending cuts, including the bike-trail grant.

Rep. Steve Womack, a Republican elected from the 3rd District that includes northwest Arkansas, said he supports the project but would not help save the $15 million grant. He said that, if the trail is critical to the future of the region, some other way will be found to pay for the project, estimated to cost $40 million overall.

[Mith242]

Well the regional trail could be in trouble before it's even started. Looks like some in Congress are looking to find things to cut and one of the things on the chopping block would be the federal grant for the regional trail. Not only could we lose that funding but it's also possible then we could lose the matching funds from the Walton Foundation as well. Rather frustrating to think we're getting this regional trail with it possibly only being yanked away at the last moment. Construction for some of the sections was going to start later this year.

Just saw this: http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2011/feb/15/house-gop-looks-killing-15m-grant-bike-ttrail/?latest

Womack's comment sounds pretty hollow "if the trail is critical to the future of the region" in that there's no real way to prove that. It would be unfortunate if funding is pulled for the trail, but considering the budget issues, I can't say I'd be surprised if it did get cut. It's just too bad it was promised if they're not going to get it.

Sorry, looks like there was a glitch and I didn't see your post till after the fact.

[zman9810]

Just saw this: http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2011/feb/15/house-gop-looks-killing-15m-grant-bike-ttrail/?latest

Womack's comment sounds pretty hollow "if the trail is critical to the future of the region" in that there's no real way to prove that. It would be unfortunate if funding is pulled for the trail, but considering the budget issues, I can't say I'd be surprised if it did get cut. It's just too bad it was promised if they're not going to get it.

Yeah, it isn't surprising at all. I can't imagine the federal government funding anything but the emergency type needs for years to come. I don't suport his politics for the most part but Womack should be commended for backing up the fiscal policy that he ran on- it has to be tough to say no his first month or two in office.

[aerotive]

"if the trail is critical to the future of the region, some other way will be found to pay for the project"

What an odd way to phrase it. You could say the same about any sort of spending...defense, roads, health care, schools, whatever.

Anyway this is just the House, there's much more sausage making to be done.

[zman9810]

The streamside protection ordinance passed in Fayeteville. If the city follows it's own ordinance the contruction of trails like Scull Creek and Mud Creek will cease as neither could be built under the dicatates in the ordinance. This is a fine mess the city has made for itself- how will it be resolved?

[Mith242]

The streamside protection ordinance passed in Fayeteville. If the city follows it's own ordinance the construction of trails like Scull Creek and Mud Creek will cease as neither could be built under the dictates in the ordinance. This is a fine mess the city has made for itself- how will it be resolved?

Yeah I've got to admit it does seem a bit of a double standard. Especially because there are future plans to have more trails going along creeks at some point. As far as I know those plans aren't changing because of this new ordinance.

[zman9810]

Yeah I've got to admit it does seem a bit of a double standard. Especially because there are future plans to have more trails going along creeks at some point. As far as I know those plans aren't changing because of this new ordinance.

I think because the trails are considered part of the public transportation system they actually won't be affected but I also see a double-standard.

[Mith242]

The Oak Ridge Trail is still slowly coming along. Parts of it are paved but still a number of sections still waiting. Looks like the southern part of the Scull Creek Trail and the northern part of the Frisco Trail will be getting LED lighting in the near future. I also noticed this weekend looks like there's some preliminary work being done on what I think will be called the Niokaska Trail. Currently the Mud Creek Trail ends just across Old Missouri Rd on Sweetbriar. However if you go east on Sweetbriar to the park you can see temporary fencing up where the future trail will go. I'm guessing along Sweetbriar they'll probably just put down the 'Sharrow' markers to share the road with bicyclists. Not really a lot of room to put a trail down without it going right through a lot of people's front yards. Then eastward where Sweetbriar Park is an actual trail will start up again. Looking on a map I can see Niokaska Creek on the eastern border of the park. I can follow it over to Crossover Rd but then eventually lose it when you start getting close to Old Wire Rd. But after skirting close to Crossover Rd the trail should head southwestward to Gulley Park.

[zman9810]

The Oak Ridge Trail is still slowly coming along. Parts of it are paved but still a number of sections still waiting. Looks like the southern part of the Scull Creek Trail and the northern part of the Frisco Trail will be getting LED lighting in the near future. I also noticed this weekend looks like there's some preliminary work being done on what I think will be called the Niokaska Trail. Currently the Mud Creek Trail ends just across Old Missouri Rd on Sweetbriar. However if you go east on Sweetbriar to the park you can see temporary fencing up where the future trail will go. I'm guessing along Sweetbriar they'll probably just put down the 'Sharrow' markers to share the road with bicyclists. Not really a lot of room to put a trail down without it going right through a lot of people's front yards. Then eastward where Sweetbriar Park is an actual trail will start up again. Looking on a map I can see Niokaska Creek on the eastern border of the park. I can follow it over to Crossover Rd but then eventually lose it when you start getting close to Old Wire Rd. But after skirting close to Crossover Rd the trail should head southwestward to Gulley Park.

I believe the temporary fencing in Sweetbriar Park is part of the Niokaska Creek bank reconstruction project. From what I have heard the trail construction will involve widening the sidewalk on the north side of Sweetbriar Dr. to 6 ft. It isn't clear if they will try to take all that width from the street or the rightaway.

[Mith242]

I believe the temporary fencing in Sweetbriar Park is part of the Niokaska Creek bank reconstruction project. From what I have heard the trail construction will involve widening the sidewalk on the north side of Sweetbriar Dr. to 6 ft. It isn't clear if they will try to take all that width from the street or the rightaway.

Now that you mention it I do seem to remember hearing about some work being done on the bank of the creek. I bet you're right, because it seems rather early to be doing preliminary work for the trail there.

[Mith242]

Looks like the Oak Ridge Trail is basically done except for where it crosses University Ave near Evergreen Cemetery. I should also point out University Ave will be closed part of this week as they put in the crossing there. Then work should eventually begin on the 'U of A Agri' trail off of Scull Creek Trail. Oddly enough I still don't think that trail has ever been officially been given a name.

[Mith242]

Well this is embarrassing. I always though the Oak Ridge Trail was basically just going to basically hook up to U of A property and end near Duncan Ave. But that's actually just about half of it. It continues on to the west along Center St to the Harmon Ave intersection. Then the trail continues westward away from any roads and eventually ends at a sidewalk that runs between Pomfret and the Sam Walton College of Business. I can't believe I never realized it ran that far west till today.

[Mith242]

Looks like Bella Vista is starting to take a more serious look at trails and sidewalks. They have a questionnaire asking citizens for input.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHJxV3c3NEJjRXktVlpXVGlQbzF4SkE6MQ

[Mith242]

The city keeps wrestling with the idea of allowing pedicabs on the trail system here in Fayetteville. Seems like there's one alderman in favor of the idea and one against it. With everyone else somewhere in between. Trying to look at it unbiasedly, I think maybe the city should try out some sort of limited use to see how well it works out. I do admit though, I use the trail system a lot, just about on a daily basis. And as a trail user I don't exactly look forward to seeing that type of traffic on the trails. Of course if I was only worried about my own personal needs, I'd wish the trail system wasn't so popular so that I wouldn't have to deal with so much pedestrian traffic on the trails. But even if it does slow me down many times, it's nice to see the trail system getting a lot of use. I don't know if a pedicab would take up any more room on the trail than say the two women I passed earlier today who had to be side by side pushing large baby strollers. As long as there wasn't a lot of pedicabs out I don't know if it would be too bad. Perhaps the only area I could see there being much of a problem is mainly on the Mud Creek Trail. Where the trail significantly narrows along Steele Ave and Mall Ave where it goes over Mud Creek. A number of the tunnels do tend to be a bit narrower and I admit I wonder if that could possible pose a problem as well. But I still think maybe some sort of limited restricted use could be worked out.

[aerotive]

I say allow them if they're non-motorized.

If so sounds like a non-problem.

[zman9810]

The good news is that the Razorback Greenway is back on. According to the NWA Times the funding for the project has been secured although the details in the article are unclear on if the entire $30 to $40 million have actually been obtained. With the upcoming budget battles it seems premature to count on the entire amount to be available for construction.

In another uncertain development for the trail system here is a photograph of the damage at the new Mud Creek Trail crossing at Old Missouri Road. This is a recent trail development that could have been constructed under the bridge and by using a separate bridge for the trail would been have been much safer for trail users and drivers alike. When the traffic from the Gulley Park area is added this crossing will become even more unsafe. The policy of forcing trail users to share space with motor vehicles is wrong and needs to be reconsidered.

The photo shows that 5 of the reflective markers have been displaced with 2 of them against the wall. There are scuff marks along the the raised curb. Without seeing a accident report in the FPD files of a reported accident at this location it is hard to say what has happened but logic says that someone tried to leave the roadway. If a trail user had been at the location at the same time they would have been in great danger. The trail should be re-constructed under Old Missouri Road and given it's own bridge over Mud Creek. The use of the city's trails should not put it's citizens at unnecessary risk. I am sure glad that I wasn't walking or biking along that bridge at the time.....

[aerotive]

The good news is that the Razorback Greenway is back on. According to the NWA Times the funding for the project has been secured although the details in the article are unclear on if the entire $30 to $40 million have actually been obtained. With the upcoming budget battles it seems premature to count on the entire amount to be available for construction.

In another uncertain development for the trail system here is a photograph of the damage at the new Mud Creek Trail crossing at Old Missouri Road. This is a recent trail development that could have been constructed under the bridge and by using a separate bridge for the trail would been have been much safer for trail users and drivers alike. When the traffic from the Gulley Park area is added this crossing will become even more unsafe. The policy of forcing trail users to share space with motor vehicles is wrong and needs to be reconsidered.

The photo shows that 5 of the reflective markers have been displaced with 2 of them against the wall. There are scuff marks along the the raised curb. Without seeing a accident report in the FPD files of a reported accident at this location it is hard to say what has happened but logic says that someone tried to leave the roadway. If a trail user had been at the location at the same time they would have been in great danger. The trail should be re-constructed under Old Missouri Road and given it's own bridge over Mud Creek. The use of the city's trails should not put it's citizens at unnecessary risk. I am sure glad that I wasn't walking or biking along that bridge at the time.....

I agree that it could've been built better, though I can think of a couple of other areas that should be improved first. One being the Wedington bridge over 540, there are no pylons/markers separating traffic, very little space between cars and pedestrians, and the "sidewalk" across the bridge isn't worthy of the name. Not sure if that bridge is city, state, or county but it should have never been built like that. By comparison the Old Missouri bridge is luxurious for pedestrians.

The other area that comes to mind immediately are various pedestrian-heavy streets in the student area that lack sidewalks---Oakland sticks out in my mind, and I'm pretty sure there are some others right around there too.

I still don't like the trail crossing at North but I've gotten used to it over time, and afaik there have been no serious pedestrian/bicyclist-meets-car accidents so maybe they knew what they were doing.

Also need to be a sidewalk from the Frisco/Scull trail to Wilson Park--I think that's fairly imminent at least.

One other thing about Wedington--I think it'd be a good idea to redo that street as a two-lane road with a center turn lane, and add painted bike lanes. Whenever someone is stopped in the left lane turning left, people make dangerous lane changes--changing the lane configuration would put a stop to that, and also make it easier to enter the street when turning left from a side street/driveway.

One other other thing--anyone know if it's legal to walk in painted bike lanes in Fayetteville? Came up in a conversation the other day and nobody knew for sure.

[Mith242]

Yeah I heard about the funding for the Razorback Greenway but I'm also not sure if it means they'll get all the funding or not. Or if it could still get cut as they look to cut down the budget even more in the future. Judging from those pictures it looks like someone totally went over into the other lane. The pylons are knocked northward but that's the south bound lane right next to the trail there. I do wish they could have put the trail under the bridge there. But I'm glad they at least raised the trail up as high as they did. It makes it a lot harder for most vehicles to make it up over that ledge. And I do have to agree about the sidewalks. Even though the city has been working on it for a while there's still so much more that needs to be done. I also was under the impression there would be some sort of connection to Wilson Park sometime in the near future. I was under the impression it would be happening sometime later this year. But with so many other projects going on and the Razorback Greenway as well. I think some projects will end up getting pushed back to next year. As far as the issue with walking in the bike lanes. As far as I know you can, but that's not anything official. I've seen people walking in the bike lanes before. I usually just go around them. In a lot of cases there's a sidewalk nearby and people generally use it instead. But I know on Front St there really aren't too many sidewalks along that street and people tend to walk in the bike lanes. I'll have to ask around about that and see what I can find out.

[Mith242]

Thought I'd pass along some info I recently got dealing with the Fayetteville Trail system. On the Razorback Regional Greenway. So far the only part that's set in stone is $3.2 Mil of the $15 of federal funds. The Walton Foundations is supposed to be matching the federal funding. The rest of the $15 Mil is still at risk of being cut.

On pedestrians in bicycle lanes. There isn't a city ordinance against pedestrians walking in the bicycle lane. And as far as anyone can tell, there isn't anything in the state laws against it either. But generally it's expected that if there is a sidewalk nearby that people should walk on the sidewalk not in the bicycle lane. But if there's no sidewalk available that's obviously the best alternative to anyone walking.

There was something in the newspaper today about the city trying to get rid of the dirt trail around Lake Fayetteville. That apparently isn't true. Part of the problem is in the past there's been a 'web' of trails in some areas. Many trails splitting off from each other but still getting to the same endpoint. I believe the city is trying to get everyone to stick to just one dirt path around Lake Fayetteville. So the dirt nature trail isn't being phased out for the paved trail.

[Mith242]

Heard a little more details about the Razorback Regional Greenway. Part of the reason why $3.2 Mil was set in stone is because they were able to fast track environmental and historical studies. This let them go ahead and apply for the funding for the design part of the funding. So the $3.2 Mil set will all go to designing the trail. If they're able to procure the rest of the $15 Mil. Then basically they'll have till September to bid the actual construction out. It sounds like if they go past this point then that funding could again be at risk. But that's assuming the rest of the $15 Mil is re-instated. Something I heard gave me the impression we might hear the fate of the rest of the funding soon. Also from what I'm hearing this $15 Mil of federal funding is going to go towards the sections of trail from Rogers down to Springdale. It sounds to me the sections in Bentonville and Fayetteville are already set, even if the rest of the $15 Mil ends up being denied. Of course in Fayetteville most of the trail has already been constructed. The only part left is a section to connect the Frisco Trail down to the Town Branch Creek Trail. Then extending the Scull Creek Trail northward to Johnsonville and over to Lake Fayetteville.

[zman9810]

I agree that it could've been built better, though I can think of a couple of other areas that should be improved first. One being the Wedington bridge over 540, there are no pylons/markers separating traffic, very little space between cars and pedestrians, and the "sidewalk" across the bridge isn't worthy of the name. Not sure if that bridge is city, state, or county but it should have never been built like that. By comparison the Old Missouri bridge is luxurious for pedestrians.

The other area that comes to mind immediately are various pedestrian-heavy streets in the student area that lack sidewalks---Oakland sticks out in my mind, and I'm pretty sure there are some others right around there too.

I still don't like the trail crossing at North but I've gotten used to it over time, and afaik there have been no serious pedestrian/bicyclist-meets-car accidents so maybe they knew what they were doing.

Also need to be a sidewalk from the Frisco/Scull trail to Wilson Park--I think that's fairly imminent at least.

One other thing about Wedington--I think it'd be a good idea to redo that street as a two-lane road with a center turn lane, and add painted bike lanes. Whenever someone is stopped in the left lane turning left, people make dangerous lane changes--changing the lane configuration would put a stop to that, and also make it easier to enter the street when turning left from a side street/driveway.

One other other thing--anyone know if it's legal to walk in painted bike lanes in Fayetteville? Came up in a conversation the other day and nobody knew for sure.

I finally made it over to look at the Wedington Rd.overpass and that is insane. I've driven over it many times and didn't realize that people were using the sides for travel also. That overpass is functionally obselete and has been since they widened Wedington to the east. It was fine when it served a 2 lane road but now they are trying to force what amounts to 6 lanes of traffic over it. I know there are long range plans to improve all the interchanges on I540- hopefully it will include trail lanes there. Even better would be to put the trail on it's own bridge but that probably won't happen.

I think the North St crossing- while not desirable- is safer because it is in a denser developed area. There are traffic lights close on each side, many driveways and regular predestrian traffic in the area. The Old Missouri crossing is in an area where there wasn't anything to impede smooth traffic flow and pedestrian traffic was minimal. There is a curved bridge and the actual crossing is at the intersection of two streets coming off hills. It is just very poor planning that seems to be due to a push to exapnd the trail system too quickly at the expense of safety.