Razorback Greenway and other NWA Trail Systems

[wmr]

"art installation" by the architecture school, behind Greenhouse Grille:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDNC94PUIAEgLpz.jpg

[aerotive]

Rode the Greenway this past Saturday, the grand opening day.  Went from Fayetteville to Bella Vista, then back to Rogers.  Had to be picked up since the ORT buses didn't show.  Only incomplete thing I saw was an intersection in Lowell, the same one that was blocked off for a long while--there's no crossing button on the south side of the trail.  Think it's still under construction so hopefully that'll go in soon.  Tons of people in downtown Springdale, certainly the most I've ever seen there.  Various bike shops had tents up along the way too.  Still the same narrow, steep, next to traffic sections around Pinnacle.  Went north past for the first time, past Crystal Bridges and into BV.   There could be some more signage around the Bentonville square, had to use my phone to find the trail again.

[Mith242]

Rode the Greenway this past Saturday, the grand opening day.  Went from Fayetteville to Bella Vista, then back to Rogers.  Had to be picked up since the ORT buses didn't show.  Only incomplete thing I saw was an intersection in Lowell, the same one that was blocked off for a long while--there's no crossing button on the south side of the trail.  Think it's still under construction so hopefully that'll go in soon.  Tons of people in downtown Springdale, certainly the most I've ever seen there.  Various bike shops had tents up along the way too.  Still the same narrow, steep, next to traffic sections around Pinnacle.  Went north past for the first time, past Crystal Bridges and into BV.   There could be some more signage around the Bentonville square, had to use my phone to find the trail again.

From what I've heard is that eventually they will be putting up more signage in Benton County.  There's been lots of comments about having a hard time following the trail there and they know about it.  Even though we've already had the Grand Opening, doesn't mean there won't be some fine tuning done in the future for the Razorback Greenway.

[Mith242]

Okay, got some updates on the Razorback Greenway.  First of all I was happy to notice that Fayetteville was pretty quick to work on that one section north of Gordan Long Park that floods often.  In fact, think it was only about a week and a half after I said something that they had gone out and dug a small drainage ditch and I haven't seen it flooded since then.  

Been also meaning to mention this for a while.  It does sound like they will put in a new section of trail near Lake Springdale.  That will take care of that one small section in Washington County that really isn't up to the same standards as the rest of the trail.  No idea on the timetable though.

Also sounds like they are going to work on and reroute the confusing section of trail north of the Pinnacle Hills area.  In fact, I'm not quite sure how they're going to re-rout it.  But from what I'm hearing there will be a new bridge.  But I've already learned in the past from some of Fayetteville's decisions that bridges are often the most expensive option to go.  So I'm getting the impression unless the Walton Foundation shells out a lot of money, it could take some time to raise the money to pay for a bridge.  So I wouldn't expect any bridges in the near future.

(Actually after studying a map a bit I think I see how they'll most likely re-route.  Looks to me that instead of turning you stay on that trail which is the Turtle Creek Trail in Rogers.  Before you start heading more to the north the trail isn't too far away from the Razorback Greenway there across the creek.  I'm guessing they would put in a bridge there and you would bypass that section that is almost right on New Hope Rd.)

[IronScott]

Weather permitting, the 15th street part of the Town Branch Creek trail will be constructed this week. Will be great when this opens.

[Mith242]

Weather permitting, the 15th street part of the Town Branch Creek trail will be constructed this week. Will be great when this opens.

Yeah, tried it out over the weekend.  It's all paved, but obviously still quite a bit of work still needs to be done.  Still haven't done the 15th St crossing yet, along with some railing work just south of there.  And of course there's still a lot of landscaping that needs to be done.  But you can now actually see the zero mile marker for the Razorback Greenway. 

Probably shouldn't come as too big of a surprise, but with some of the usual construction delays and especially with all this wet weather recently.  The trail construction schedule is running behind.  The Clabber Creek Trail extension in west Fayetteville was scheduled for this summer but looks more like it will start sometime this Fall instead.  

[IronScott]

The TBC trail west of Greathouse Park is taking shape. Small section but looks almost ready to pour concrete. Little by little south Fayetteville is getting a nice addition to the trail system.

[Mith242]

The TBC trail west of Greathouse Park is taking shape. Small section but looks almost ready to pour concrete. Little by little south Fayetteville is getting a nice addition to the trail system.

Yeah, forgot to mention that.  But noticed that myself over the weekend.  So sometime later this year we'll have have a connection to that one small isolated little section of the Town Branch Creek Trail that's been there for a few years.  Bother the Town Branch Creek Trail and the Tsa-La-Gi Trail will be extended westward and will eventually merge forming a nice loop on the south side of the city to match the one around Lake Fayetteville to the north.

[aerotive]

Listened to a new podcast that's about the trails in the area, they had on someone from the Rogers city government.  Various topics, they mentioned the extension in Springdale from the Greenway to the Jones center is almost done, and the extension in south Fayetteville is supposed to be done by summer.  Also a new route from the Greenway to downtown Bentonville, running along Walton blvd, is due to be finished by the end of summer.  Hadn't heard about that one.

 

Here's a link for anyone who's interested:

 

http://www.nwatrails.org/feed/podcast

 

It only works for me in Firefox, not Chrome.

[Mith242]

Listened to a new podcast that's about the trails in the area, they had on someone from the Rogers city government.  Various topics, they mentioned the extension in Springdale from the Greenway to the Jones center is almost done, and the extension in south Fayetteville is supposed to be done by summer.  Also a new route from the Greenway to downtown Bentonville, running along Walton blvd, is due to be finished by the end of summer.  Hadn't heard about that one.

 

Here's a link for anyone who's interested:

 

http://www.nwatrails.org/feed/podcast

 

It only works for me in Firefox, not Chrome.

I had seen that they were starting to do podcasts just the other day.  But was busy at the time and didn't get around to listening yet.  Thanks for the reminder.  

[IronScott]

Some great updates from the Bike Springdale facebook page. They have been doing an excellent job of communicating about the trail system.

 

https://www.facebook.com/bikespringdale/posts/487820711382491

 

Quick Greenway Updates:
1. Trail safety: Several topics of discussion (thanks to you):
a) Lights in the underpasses: The city is going to look into these as feedback has been coming in to Mayor Sprouse (avid trail user) and through Bike Springdale requesting them. Of the three in Springdale, US-71 is the biggest question as it's owned by the State of Arkansas, whereas the others are owned by Springdale.
b) Stultz crossing safety (aka Lake Springdale by the one-laned bridge): As above, both the Mayor and Bike Springdale have received feedback on this! Next steps involve understanding costs for a) constantly blinking sign, b) push button warning lights (like Emma/Powell Street), and c) sensored crosswalk (like Pump Station). This was identified as the top safety issue to look into.
c) High Vis signage on Wagon Wheel: We've asked the city to consider putting up some high visibility signs between the stoplights on the light poles saying "Trail crossing". Obviously, it's an intersection, but we feel that higher visibility will only help increase driver awareness.
d) Crosswalk light timing: The mayor asked the streets/trail folks to look into the timing of the light at Pump Station as bikes are flying through here before the lights trigger. They will likely adjust them a few times to find a happy medium to cover higher speeds from bicycles while also staying lit long enough for walkers.
e) intersection visibility: The city is going to look into visibility at all three road crossings in North Springdale. Trimming trees, etc kind of things. 
f) Cyclists are being identified frequently for flying through lights and stop signs. We've seen it. Mayor Sprouse has seen it. The police have seen it. Spread the word and help curtail this extremely dangerous situation. Some of the culprits are from other cities, of course, but lets make Springdale safe by riding safe!!!!
2. Legal crossing: SPD took the action to figure this out for us. What we do know (or at least we think we know...this is definitely NOT official)...
a) Crosswalks-pedestrian: Arkansas state law specifies that cars MUST yield to pedestrians in crosswalks...no exceptions.
b) Crosswalks-bikes: Arkansas state law specifies that you are to walk your bike through all crosswalks. When you do this...you are a pedestrian and the pedestrian law applies. When you ride your bike through a crosswalk you are considered an automobile and MUST follow all associated laws. Using Pump Station as an example. The stop sign is ONLY on the trail and NOT on Pump Station. Pedestrians and cyclists MUST stop at the stop signs. Cars, however, must be prepared to yield if a pedestrian is in the road. Again, cyclists walking their bikes are considered pedestrians. If you ride your bike through the intersection, you will be at fault and ticketed. To avoid any confusion, just stop and make sure that it's clear. Very simple rule. 
c) Dedicated cycling lanes (aka Silent Grove and Powell): We actually don't know for sure. SPD is going to check on this. The city is considering ordinances to ensure that those are considered traffic lanes. Until we know, just stay alert and assume that you must yield. 
3. Update on trailheads, Jones Trail, Mountain Bike Park,etc: Let's just say that there are a ton of forms sitting on the ground just waiting for sunny days to pour concrete! The Springdale Mountain Bike Park and the new Jones Trail are both just sitting there waiting on clear weather to finish up their paving. Ditto on the Lake Springdale trail head. The weather has really wrecked the schedule. 
4. Additional Trails: It's fun as there are now discussions underway for five additional trails with three of these touching the west side of Springdale. From a cycling perspective, the Spring Creek extension trail (aka the mountain bike trail) is the most exciting as it would connect the Greenway to TWO mountain bike parks and get West of I-49!

[Mith242]

Yeah, got to say Springdale seems to be really moving on their trail additions.  You can already see where the future trail that will bypass Lake Springdale is going.  You can also see where the Jones Trail is going to connect up to the Razorback Greenway in Springdale as well.  Around the area where the trail diverges west/northwestward from Park St just past the bridge over Spring Creek.  

Fayetteville has had the HAWK system lights up on 15th St just south of Walker Park up for a little while now.  Been a little surprised they haven't put in the crosswalk just yet.  Fayetteville has also started paving some of the Town Branch Creek Trail extension just past Greathouse Park.  

Just one other note I wanted to mention.  I've already noticed this a few times in this particular area.  You'll occasionally have someone cut a corner a bit.  This especially seems true for the Clear Creek Trail area that goes underneath 71 B in north Fayetteville.  I've already had a few close calls and guess my luck ran out.  I think maybe that area seems worse is because there's elevation on both sides then the trail dips under 71 B and then throw in some blind curves as well.  So I think people are going downhill reaching that point, at a higher speed than they should.  Maybe in part to try to keep momentum to help them up the elevation on the other side.  Anyway had someone come through at exactly the same time I was going around the blind corner.  They were all the way over on my side and plowed right into me.  I got banged up pretty bad but luckily my bicycle took a lot of the impact.  I really would hate to imagine what would have happened had he hit someone on foot.  It could have easily been a pretty serious accident.  But anyway, I just wanted to let all of you know to be watchful in that particular area.  While I haven't seen anyone else cut the corner this badly.  I've seen several others cut it and cross over a bit over the line.  I've mentioned it to both the Fayetteville Trail Coordinator and the Razorback Greenway Coordinator.  Just would hate to see anyone else get hurt in an area that seems to be a possible problematic area.

[IronScott]

Dang! Sorry to hear you got hit but glad you're okay. The MLK underpass is another dangerous area where someone almost hit me one day because they were across into my lane coming out of the tunnel.

That 71B tunnel is even more dangerous because of the long, steep downhills from both sides. I came down one day and there were four people standing there talking right in the middle of the trail. Luckily I had slowed way down before taking the corner but they could've easily caused a huge crash.

As you mentioned, the work on the TCB trail is really moving. I have some pics on my phone I'll post in a minute. There is work done from Greathouse park, on both sides of Garland and now on Razorback Rd. Awesome progress!

[IronScott]

Some pics of the Town Branch Creek trail work.

[Mith242]

Dang! Sorry to hear you got hit but glad you're okay. The MLK underpass is another dangerous area where someone almost hit me one day because they were across into my lane coming out of the tunnel.

That 71B tunnel is even more dangerous because of the long, steep downhills from both sides. I came down one day and there were four people standing there talking right in the middle of the trail. Luckily I had slowed way down before taking the corner but they could've easily caused a huge crash.

As you mentioned, the work on the TCB trail is really moving. I have some pics on my phone I'll post in a minute. There is work done from Greathouse park, on both sides of Garland and now on Razorback Rd. Awesome progress!

Yeah, does sound like Fayetteville is going to put down some bright fluorescent signs to try to make people more aware of that one spot.  And speaking about people stopping to talk.  It's sorta funny but it almost seems like people tend to want to not stop in wide open areas.  They tend to stop in the tunnels or around blind curves, not realizing that it makes it a lot harder on everyone else because we don't see them until we're right up on them.  But just seems like after riding on the trail system on a daily basis for years, that I rarely see people stop in areas where it's easy to see them.  Just one off those weird things I guess.

Yeah looking forward to having even more trails to use on the south side of Fayetteville in the near future.  Just curious to see how much will get done by winter.  One thing I did forget to mention.  The city wanted to put in another HAWK light crossing.  But AHTD said traffic counts weren't high enough for it.  I think the city is going to try to appeal the decision. but looks like it might be some other type of crosswalk.  

[aerotive]

Yikes sorry about the wreck.  Had a few close calls myself at the various tunnels but no incidents so far.  Have been run off the trail a couple times on blind curves, once by a kid and once by a roadie, but at least with those there's usually some grass to skid into.  They could sign the tunnels better, both speed limits and sharp turn indicators.  The tunnel under MLK has the best signage IIRC.  The only real, permanent fix would be to straighten and flatten those sections, and that would cost real $.

 

Saw the new Town Branch section for the first time today.  Longer than I'd thought, and there's a section between College and Greathouse park that looks like it was completed quite some time ago.  Can go somewhat west of the park but there was active construction going on so I turned back.

 

One other thing I heard on that podcast, they're aware how bad the section just north of Pinnacle is, said a plan is being worked on.  But no timetable.

[Mith242]

Yikes sorry about the wreck.  Had a few close calls myself at the various tunnels but no incidents so far.  Have been run off the trail a couple times on blind curves, once by a kid and once by a roadie, but at least with those there's usually some grass to skid into.  They could sign the tunnels better, both speed limits and sharp turn indicators.  The tunnel under MLK has the best signage IIRC.  The only real, permanent fix would be to straighten and flatten those sections, and that would cost real $.

 

Saw the new Town Branch section for the first time today.  Longer than I'd thought, and there's a section between College and Greathouse park that looks like it was completed quite some time ago.  Can go somewhat west of the park but there was active construction going on so I turned back.

 

One other thing I heard on that podcast, they're aware how bad the section just north of Pinnacle is, said a plan is being worked on.  But no timetable.

Okay, had a pretty long post then right as I was able to post had a glitch and lost it all.  So let's see if I can remember everything I was going to say.....

Yes in some areas they had to use sections of trail they knew weren't ideal but used what they could now and have plans on rerouting some areas at some point.  Already mentioned they will eventually reroute that 'loop' near Einstein Brothers Bagels.  But also sounds like they are going to reroute that section of trail near there that is right up against the road and where it also gets steep near that Arvest Bank.  It appears they will use that section of connecting trail, the Osage Creek Trail.  It will head westward then at some point cross the creek northward and probably follow another creek.  The same creek that flows through Horsebarn Park.  So it should reconnect back up to the current trail somewhere near or inside the park.  

They planned all this out in advance.  In fact if you pay close attention you'l notice that your mileage doesn't quite add up to the current mile markers set out.  The mile markers are actually set up to for the future course of the trail.  In fact apparently one mile marker isn't even currently on the trail.  It's located where the trail will eventually be rerouted.  Speaking of mile markers, not sure if I've mentioned this yet or not.  But Fayetteville is planning on sticking up precise mile markers on the lampposts along their section of the Razorback Greenway.

And as things heat up I think people are noticing more water fountains would be welcome.  There's one in Fayetteville near North St, one in downtown Springdale.  And there's one in Horsebarn Park in northern Rogers.  Sounds like another one will soon be going up near the fire station and First Baptist Church in Rogers.

[IronScott]

Another water fountain at Gordon Long Park along Gregg St. Of course that one has been there a while.

There isn't really much in the way of drink places, convenience stores, etc., along the GW yet. It's way early, of course, but I expect we will slowly see options near the trail to either grab and go or sit and enjoy.

[Mith242]

Another water fountain at Gordon Long Park along Gregg St. Of course that one has been there a while.

There isn't really much in the way of drink places, convenience stores, etc., along the GW yet. It's way early, of course, but I expect we will slowly see options near the trail to either grab and go or sit and enjoy.

Oh yeah, you're right.  Forgot about Gordon Long Park, it's been there for a while.  But yes we'll eventually start seeing more places near the trail catering to trail users.  Already see a bit of this in Fayetteville.  One place on Sycamore St in Fayetteville has vending machines near the trail for trail users and such.  Also seeing growth and development happening in section of northwest Springdale and Lowell.  So wouldn't be surprised to eventually see someone using that to attract some of the trail users.

[UrbanArkie]

I have an interesting thought for a business along the trail, just not sure how to sell it. Something like an urban campground.

[Mith242]

In south Fayetteville looks like the crosswalk on 15th St is complete now.  Really I think the only think left on the southern end of the Razorback Greenway and the easternmost part of the Town Branch Creek Trail is just a little landscaping.  Looks like more more paving was done on the Town Branch Creek Trail west of Greathouse Park.  Except for a small break at Stirman Ave the trail now extends to S Garland Ave.  From what I can tell, looks like they're already a third of the way over to Razorback Rd where it will connect up to that other section of trail that was completed several years ago.  Not sure if they'll just keep going with the Town Branch Creek Trail or if they'll eventually switch over to the Tsa-La-Gi Trail also in south Fayetteville.  Either way they'll both eventually meet up and form a big loop.

[IronScott]

I ran that new section on TBC trail yesterday. It's great. They worked fast on it. They've also done some work on the Razorback Rd side. Looks like that part may take a bit longer as it looks to be right on the creek and there is an elevated railroad track to deal with. I'm sure they have to take special precautions with the support pillars.

Speaking of Tsa-La-Gi, do you know what the teepee looking structure is? I assume it is some sort of Cherokee tribute. It looks pretty cool but I don't know if it's unfinished on purpose. There is no sign describing it.

Also, I wonder what's with the construction just west of that teepee. They've erected a chain link fence now and the old building has been gutted for a few weeks.

I also recently stumbled on a trail that connects Hollywood Ave to Beechwood Ave through the apartment complex northwest of Baum Stadium. I don't know if it is to be officially part of the trail system or just something developed for the apartment but it looks just like a city trail by the size and line markings.

[Mith242]

I ran that new section on TBC trail yesterday. It's great. They worked fast on it. They've also done some work on the Razorback Rd side. Looks like that part may take a bit longer as it looks to be right on the creek and there is an elevated railroad track to deal with. I'm sure they have to take special precautions with the support pillars.

Speaking of Tsa-La-Gi, do you know what the teepee looking structure is? I assume it is some sort of Cherokee tribute. It looks pretty cool but I don't know if it's unfinished on purpose. There is no sign describing it.

Also, I wonder what's with the construction just west of that teepee. They've erected a chain link fence now and the old building has been gutted for a few weeks.

I also recently stumbled on a trail that connects Hollywood Ave to Beechwood Ave through the apartment complex northwest of Baum Stadium. I don't know if it is to be officially part of the trail system or just something developed for the apartment but it looks just like a city trail by the size and line markings.

The section of trail you mentioned is one that I think I've seen on the map but keep forgetting to go check it out.  But I think that's a part of the Tsa-La-Gi Trail and will eventually be connected with the rest of it.  I think they went ahead and built that section when they were doing all the construction for that complex, if it's what I think it is.

Yeah I've seen that wooden structure, although guess I never thought of it as a 'teepee'.  It has something more to do with what's going on over by the construction zone.  I saw mention of it somewhere on one of the topics here.  Maybe the Fayetteville topic.  But something along the lines of a design studio or something art related.  I'll have to see if I can figure out where I saw that mentioned again.

One other thing I'll mention.  I think a lot of people have already noticed it.  Trail officials have noticed, city officials have noticed it.  Lots of people actually do get out on the trails.  But anyway there's been problems with a number of cyclist blowing through crosswalks.  Even if you're on trail, cyclists are still technically considered vehicles.  Some of the rules were posted a little while back on this topic.  But basically you're really only considered a pedestrian is you're on foot walking your bicycle.  Vehicles are supposed to stop for pedestrians at crosswalks.  But if you're a cyclist at most of these crosswalks there is a stop sign and officially vehicles have the right of way over cyclists.  Sometimes you get some cyclist who expect the best of both worlds.  They want to be treated as vehicles while they're on the road yet not have to follow all the rules and also act as if they're pedestrians.  But anyway, saw a number of police on bicycles in Fayetteville yesterday and today in Springdale.  Not sure if anyone is ready to start issuing tickets.  But pretty sure if this activity keeps up some of the NWA cities are going to start considering it.  Might be a bit hard to enforce and maybe they'll simply try to give out warnings and try to make people who might be unaware of the actual laws.  So if you happen to be one of these people, you've been warned.  

[IronScott]

I saw two Fayetteville cops on the trails yesterday. I don't blow through crossings but do go faster than the posted 15 mph if it doesn't endanger anyone. If they give me a ticket for that I'll have to get back on the roads to train. Really, in Fayetteville it's difficult to find any decent stretch to get much speed but that also makes it more dangerous given all the curves and blind corners.

Regarding the crossings, I don't want to get hit so I always use caution and only cross if the oncoming vehicles are clearly stopping, which most do if they see you. Just yesterday I was coming up to the Sycamore crossing and a girl drove by and I saw her downing a soda with her head tilted back. She never noticed me. Had a cyclist just blown through without looking they would've been killed at the speed she was driving.

[Mith242]

I ran that new section on TBC trail yesterday. It's great. They worked fast on it. They've also done some work on the Razorback Rd side. Looks like that part may take a bit longer as it looks to be right on the creek and there is an elevated railroad track to deal with. I'm sure they have to take special precautions with the support pillars.

Speaking of Tsa-La-Gi, do you know what the teepee looking structure is? I assume it is some sort of Cherokee tribute. It looks pretty cool but I don't know if it's unfinished on purpose. There is no sign describing it.

Also, I wonder what's with the construction just west of that teepee. They've erected a chain link fence now and the old building has been gutted for a few weeks.

I also recently stumbled on a trail that connects Hollywood Ave to Beechwood Ave through the apartment complex northwest of Baum Stadium. I don't know if it is to be officially part of the trail system or just something developed for the apartment but it looks just like a city trail by the size and line markings.

Finally got around to checking out that section of trail between Hollywood Ave and Beechwood Ave.  As I mentioned before, yeah it's going to be part of the Tsa La Gi Trail.  Pretty sure anytime a developer develops a property that's going to have a near future trail the city is having the developer, in this case University House Apts, built or pay for a trail on the property.  In most cases I think they just go ahead and build the trail while all the other construction is going on, rather than going back in later and causing disruptions.  Even if it means the trail doesn't connect to anything.  There's another new development going on, on the other side of Beechwood Ave, Beechwood Village.  I'm guessing they'll be putting in a trail on that section as well pretty soon.  

They finished the small gap of the Town Branch Creek Trail at Stirman Ave a little while back but haven't much other progress down in that area recently.  Granted I imagine the recent wet weather hasn't helped.  I also believe they're having to put in another bridge across Town Branch Creek somewhere between Razorback Rd and South Garland Ave.  So they might be focusing on that for now.