Gentrification

[Frankie811]

Holy cow!!!

http://www.projo.com/ri/providence/content...n.149196f2.html

[CtownMikey]

yucky... maybe they should give up on this project and put their money into something else in the city =)

[Frankie811]

Holy cow!!!

http://www.projo.com/ri/providence/content...n.149196f2.html

[KRC]

yucky... maybe they should give up on this project and put their money into something else in the city =)

Olneyville would be better served if they had a well run unified neighborhood association. They looked really bad at this meeting. Really, really bad. No one walked away giving a crap about what these people were whining about. Presentation and validation are just as, if not more so, important than just making a point.

I'm not saying that what was said by many weren't valid points, but the delivery of the message insured that they will be ignored.

[jencoleslaw]

Olneyville would be better served if they had a well run unified neighborhood association. They looked really bad at this meeting. Really, really bad. No one walked away giving a crap about what these people were whining about. Presentation and validation are just as, if not more so, important than just making a point.

I'm not saying that what was said by many weren't valid points, but the delivery of the message insured that they will be ignored.

i don't think that is true at all. if that was the case, this thing would have been voted on last night.

[pete11]

Olneyville would be better served if they had a well run unified neighborhood association. They looked really bad at this meeting. Really, really bad. No one walked away giving a crap about what these people were whining about. Presentation and validation are just as, if not more so, important than just making a point.

I'm not saying that what was said by many weren't valid points, but the delivery of the message insured that they will be ignored.

I find this statement to be elitist, and at the very least patronizing.

[KRC]

I find this statement to be elitist, and at the very least patronizing.

Of course you do.

[KRC]

i don't think that is true at all. if that was the case, this thing would have been voted on last night.

I had the opportunity to be present for quite a bit of the forum. It didn't go over well. Many of the issues brought up will probably be ignored in the end. Point-counterpoint type of discussion would have been a better way to go. Again, there were some very good points made. But almost no one walked away with a feeling of mutual agreement. Isn't that just as important and getting the development in the first place?

[magoldbe]

A friend of mine was interested in moving into Rising Sun Mills in Olneyville, so she took a tour and videotaped it, so we can see how cool it is:

http://www.loadrecords.com/risingsuntour/

[jencoleslaw]

I had the opportunity to be present for quite a bit of the forum. It didn't go over well. Many of the issues brought up will probably be ignored in the end. Point-counterpoint type of discussion would have been a better way to go. Again, there were some very good points made. But almost no one walked away with a feeling of mutual agreement. Isn't that just as important and getting the development in the first place?

If by "it" you mean the presentation by the developers, then i agree with you. It didn't go over well. and i was there for the entire meeting. I think the current residents of olneyville were very clear in their points, even if they aren't lawyers and paid professional public speakers. If this had been voted on last night it would not have passed. trust me when i tell you that doesn't happen very often.

[Frankie811]

Oh great. 40 seconds of two people talking about how bad the neighborhood is.

[magoldbe]

Oh great. 40 seconds of two people talking about how bad the neighborhood is.

Check out the snippet called "we buy it all". It gives a very clear ideaof SBER's plans for the neighborhood.

I'm so glad these guys are my neighbors.

[basachs]

magoldbe, you are being somewhat decieving in the start of this thread. You did not secretly tape someone for the purposes of showing people how cool Rising Sun is, you did it with a very different agenda in mind.

I have read your posts in the ALCO thread and know how you feel about that proposed development and SBER in general. I also can agree with some of your points.

However, are you truly surprised at this? I dont think anyone else is either. SBER does not do things for the common good and advancement of all humankind. Find me a company that does.

[magoldbe]

However, are you truly surprised at this? I dont think anyone else is either. SBER does not do things for the common good and advancement of all humankind. Find me a company that does.

Of course not. But at the development planning committee meeting last night, it was revealed that SBER wants over $100M in state and city money (through TIFs, tax credits, in-kind services and straight-up cash) to complete their project. That's about 1/3 of the entire projected cost of the project. This is effectively a public housing project that will not even remotely benefit the vast majority of said public.

If SBER were proposing to do this completely with their own funds, I'd say "ce la vie." it's their money, and this is a free country. But it's *not* their money and this project runs completely counter to Providence's Comprehensive Plan, both by letter and in spirit.

[basachs]

I dont think SBER has ever been deceitful about their ideas for the area. SBER believes and whether they are right or wrong I am not going to comment on, that the Valley/Promenade area is blighted and run down. They want to swoop in and "save" it by transforming it into a bunch of condos, shopes, and the like. That has always been their intention and they have supporters of that vision.

So you secretly tape a leasing agent for Rising Sun in which she says some disparaging remarks about the neighborhood. Okay. Nothing I heard in those tapes was so off the wall and did not fit in with how SBER views that area. Hell, I drive down Valley St and wish things would change. I dont beleive in an "us vs them" concept but thats me.

[magoldbe]

you obviously don't live in olneyville. I do and I can tell you that people work in those alco buildings every day, 3 shifts, 18 hours. those buildings are not blighted. they just don't look nice on the outside because they are manufacturing facilities -- some of the last real manufacturing that's left in our country. maybe this new wave of suburban immigrants to the city are not used to such sights, but that's a real part of the "urban lifestyle" you so tout on this website.

providence needs two things right now: 1. jobs, 2. affordable housing. I don't see how anyone in this city can think that shutting down business to build $300,000 condos is a good plan.

A fellow at the meeting last night got up and said that SBER has been trying to buy out his autobody business and everyone else's businesses along valley st. When they won't sell, SBER has called the IRS, DEC and the zoning board on these small, family-owned businesses in an effort to force them out. Now with the sasaki plan, they might get kicked out for eminent domain.

how is shutting down and kicking out small business going to "save" olneyville?

these Maryland-based developers should definitely *not* be receiving city and state funds to force out Rhode Island businesses and home-owners. that's just insane.

[basachs]

Holy crap dude, read what I wrote carefully would you? I never said I believe that ALCO is blighted or run down, I said SBER does. You are right, i dont live in Olneyville. I live close enough though. I live in the Armory, a few blocks away from Olneyville. I travel down Valley street all the time to go to Shaw's, and i have no problem with kids running around screaming in spanish like you mentioned certain people did in the ALCO thread.

My point was that SBER is not being secretive of what they intend to do, your friend on the other hand with the "tour" was.

[magoldbe]

Holy crap dude, read what I wrote carefully would you?

yeah, you're right. sorry. I'm just so frusterated and kind of disgusted. I care about this city and I don't want to see a blantantly racist property developer buy out a neighborhood so they can "all go back to where they came from" as the SBER employee says.

I just feel like this board and all of the enthusiastic, smart, pro-urban people who post to it should know what's going on. and if it bothers you, maybe write a letter to your city councilperson.

that's it.

[basachs]

yeah, you're right. sorry. I'm just so frusterated and kind of disgusted. I care about this city and I don't want to see a blantantly racist property developer buy out a neighborhood so they can "all go back to where they came from" as the SBER employee says.

I just feel like this board and all of the enthusiastic, smart, pro-urban people who post to it should know what's going on. and if it bothers you, maybe write a letter to your city councilperson.

that's it.

Apology accepted. Its easy to be impassioned by this. I dont think passion alone is going to win though.

Also, unless you have other evidence that shows SBER to be racist as a corporation, what I heard on those tapes was the thought's of a single leasing agent. It may very well match the SBER corporate stance. However, that tape is not proof of it.

[magoldbe]

here's a projo article on the planning committee hearing last night

http://www.projo.com/metro/content/projo_2...n.149196f2.html

[brick]

If businesses are being displaced then that is obviously a problem. I would like to hear the full stories. I would also like to know what the city plans to do because losing businesses is stupid. Since I don't think they are just going to be completely stupid about the process, they must have some sort of plan. Honestly I think the Allens Ave area has plenty of space for more industry but I can't be 100% sure. As I have said in the past, it would be a mistake IMO for Providence to become a bedroom community of Boston. I assume that is where the forecast demand for these places is coming out of. So I hope there is something that also lets Providence generate it's own business.

All of that said - I agree with basachs that the video and its presentation here were both sneaky. If you want to make a valid argument then intentionally duping your audience isn't a good start. Although I guess it works for Michael Moore.

[foxpointer]

That is the Rising Sun residential property manager on the video. SBER was a co-developer but does not manage Rising Sun.

[lauram]

I dont think this video was made to actually indict the person shot, I think it was more to illustrate the organizational overtone of SBER, and the people that wrork for them. In many ways this is an extreme example.

I think we as UP'ers SHOULD be very concerned when a single developer (no matter now conservative or progressive we feel they are) buys up such a huge amount of space in a single (or multiple) swipe. How will effect the housing market in the Armory? how about the retail spaces on the east side? what about office vacancies downtown, or manufacturing jobs?

the fact is that the model SBER proposes is less flexible than having multiple developers work at multiple parcels.

its like the corporation takes an URBAN AREA, and makes it into a 'campus' (their term, not mine). dont we all perfer urban areas??????

AND i think we should all be very concerned when a private company claims that they will make 'public' spaces, esp in a 'campus'. has anyone been to the 'park' behind rising sun? not very welcoming. i tried to take someone there last week, and we couldnt get through the fences and gates keeping us public out!!

im really interested to hear what this group has to say.. i would be really really shocked if many pepople here actually looked closely and favorably on the renderings- it made the city look like disneyworld.

That is the Rising Sun residential property manager on the video. SBER was a co-developer but does not manage Rising Sun.

[ArtInRuins]

As mentioned in the recent Projo article on the American Locomotive forum, here is a link to the videos that Jo Dery fom the Dirt Palace made of her tour through Rising Sun. Pretty appalling, but the sales woman was baited and strung along, and if you bait a sales person, they will tell you what they think you want to hear, so I dont know how seriously we can take it. Still, to think that anyone would want to hear such things leaves me wondering about what kind of people are moving there and what they think about a predominantly Latino neighborhood. It should be noted that this sales person works for Armory, as they are the leasing agent for the project. SBER handles the development and commercial tenants, Armory handles residential leasing.

http://www.loadrecords.com/risingsuntour/

By the way, the ghetto, in my opinion, it is NOT. I dont know if Providence really has a ghetto. I've lived on Camp Street for years in a racially tense neighborhood and found that in general, when you are one on one with people, they are very nice, real, and honest. Sometimes in groups people tend to be more hostile than they need to be.

I did a street clean up on Earth day last Saturday up and down Valley and Delaine streets and everyone was very nice and thankful. We cleaned up the standard type of trash, nothing appalling. A street vendor selling homemade grilled Mexican chicken skewers (I dont know their name for it) made the street smell awesome and smiled everytime I looked in her direction. I wanted her to offer me one for my hard work, but alas, she was there to make some money, not hand out food. It is a tough, working class neighborhood like anywhere else in New England.

It is too bad that there is this percieved (or real) class war going on between Rising Sun and the neighborhood. It doesn't need to be like that. Residents of Rising Sun could take in some great local food if they ventured out of the compound and walked, not drove, to the local bodega. Likewise, the additional foot traffic could make the streets a little safer for everyone.

Likewise, I am not sure what people expect a developer to do. They need to develop projects and have those projects make money. I'd rather have ten SBERs than one Paolino, because at least SBER has a real community hiring policy and gives back to the local neighborhood organizations. They sponsor local events like the Steel Yard fundraiser and the English for Action Soccer tournament. Maybe they dont create affordable art studios (yet) but they are trying to help the local Latino and black communities of 02909.

Nothing is ever black and white, or us versus them.

[Cotuit]

The link to the video is returning a 404 for me.

Dave9 said this in the Moving to Providence thread:

While the receptionist told me that there is literally no surrounding neighborhood, the gated community does offer a coffee shop and other amenities.

Receptionist at Rising Sun. I thought that that was just really bad marketing on the part of the receptionist. Who tells a prospective tenant that the neighborhood is bad or non-existent? Racial and ethnic and socio-economic tension aside, sounds like Rising Sun has some bad agents selling there.

magoldbe, you are being somewhat decieving in the start of this thread.

Yes, let's try not to be snarky. Just say what you want to say, gets the discussion moving along faster and starts it off on a less confrontational note.