future for Briley Parkway

[L'burgnative]

I was wondering if someone may know, but I was wondering if Briley Parkway will be seeing the blue shields in a few years. With all the work that TDOT is doing and the flyovers that are being built on both sides of town off of I-40, and the work being done or was done near Opryland. I was wondering if they were building the roadway up to ISTEA freeway standards. I know that they have been working on that road for about forty years now but kind of curious about this. One thing that I wonder is that if it was assigned an Interstate number what would it be. It would obviously be a by-pass freeway and not a spur, so it would have to begin with an even number. It would also be parented by I-40 since it's freeway standard from I-40 west of town to I-40 east of town. But those numbers are all used up in the state of Tennessee. I-240 Memphis, I-440 Nashville, I-640 Knoxville and I-840 Middle Tennessee (not yet but will be eventually). There are no numbers to assign it if Briley was given blue shields. Does anyone know anything about this.

[rocky top buzz]

Most maps use the same distinguishing lines (wide black, for example), to portray both 840 and Briley as interstates. If I'm not mistaken, aren't the flyovers on White Bridge and the flyovers planned for I-24 designed to make Briley a part of I-440?

Regardless, I wouldn't hold my breath on this project being completed anytime soon. I keep hearing the end is near, but my wife has lived in Tennessee her whole life, and they've always been working on that road!

[it's just dave]

I use Briley every day. I remember when they built the first leg from Gallation Road to McGavock, then to Two Rivers, then Lebanon Road then to 40E and beyond. That portion was fairly undisturbed for most of its existence with the exception of the phase of widening at Opryland. The extension to 40W wasn't distuptive really because it was new. I drove on the original Briley excavation by the then non-existant Opryland when I was 16, so yes, the building of this road is a long process when considering the overall picture.

The project to pump up Briley from a sleepy little cut-through to major freeway/parkway proportions has been fascinating to watch, and only mildy disruptive. My hats off to the road builders. Very few times have I been delayed.

Now, from 65N to Two Rivers the road is complete, it's beautiful, it's wide, it's smooth as silk, well-marked and lighted. There's a distinct lack of obstrusive outdoor advertising. One of my favorite things about this road is the lack of large trucks. I doubt an interstate designation will be assigned to this because of the noise and road degradation caused by freight traffic. The interchange at 40E is a year ahead of schedule so be patient. The bridges are going in at Two Rivers, Elm Hill now and the second half of the Lebanon Road bridge will commence soon. Look for major completions before year-end.

Briley, when completed will be an enviable roadway for local traffic. Please, no blue shields for me.

I'm really more concerned with what's going to happen to connect 40 to 24 and into town, including the 2nd/4th nightmare exit. This project will be all consuming for a long time. I have no idea when funding for this segment is set or any details, but I can tell by the road and bridge structure that there's some huge connectivity in store for us to take us into town.

[ATLBrain]

That's interesting, Dave. I'm interested in timeframes... like apx. when was each leg completed. And if I understood the sequence you laid out, then the stretch of Briley between I-40 E and I-24 E is one of the newer sections to have been completed. So then I wonder why it wasn't designed to be limited access. Plus, I'm aware that it used to be the road to the old air terminal at BNA. So what was there before Briley? I can't remember anything that connected that old terminal to M'boro Road that didn't utilize Briley. Of course, so much has changed around there. Is there a plan to make that leg limited access. It's such a disruption to the flow of traffic (especially now that the junction to I-40/I-24 if FUBAR).

[ATLBrain]

One more thing. My father told me that the section of Briley from Gallatin Rd. to I-65 came along sometime around 1978. I was around when the section b/n I-65N and I-24W was completed. As I recall, you still couldn't go from I-65 to I-24 via Briley at the time.

With all the traffic on Briley, are there any plans to widen Ellington?

[it's just dave]

To me it seems more like 10 years for the leg from Gallatin Rd. to I-65, even less. It was recently expanded, but I've lost all track of time on this thing really. I use it constantly and have evolved with it, right in to senility I guess. Ellington should be widened by a lane, and I think plans exist somewhere to do that. There are long sweeping flyovers over Briley providing a direct link to I-65 N from Ellington, and in reverse as well. The entrance ramp where Briley converges to Ellington is a 4-lane ramp merging into 4 and 5 lanes of northbound 65 traffic. Lots of concrete and very sweet. Ellington isn't really a problem as it is. It slows a bit a rush, but only briefly. I'd like to see 3 lanes, but it's fine right now...and I use it more than Briley. The reworking of the Spring Street lanes, Ellington ramps and signaling is very nice. Having the dedicated lane from 65 to Spring is helping a lot. And the area looks great and will be very fitting for 5th and Main.

[L'burgnative]

Briley was finally connected from I-24 west to I-65 north about five to seven years ago, maybe ten years ago.

[ATLBrain]

Briley was finally connected from I-24 west to I-65 north about five to seven years ago, maybe ten years ago.

Yes, that's the one I do remember. It was completed in April of 1998.

Something else I remember about Briley is the name of the bridge over the Cumberland. In a funny coincidence (for me anyway), there is a name plaque on it memorializing somebody named "Duke Fuqua". I hadn't noticed that until after I went to grad schools at Duke for law and business. The B-school is known as Duke's Fuqua School of Business. Only after I graduated and moved from there did I notice the bridge in Nashville. By the way, JB Fuqua of Atlanta (for whom the Fuqua School is named) passed away a few weeks ago.

[jdavidf]

Ellington isn't really a problem as it is. It slows a bit a rush, but only briefly.

Speaking of Ellington -- I remember a few years ago, one of the "You Are So Nashville If" entrants was "You are so Nashville if you know how to use Ellington Parkway"! I'm happy to say that I do!

David

[smeagolsfree]

I have been watching the work done on Briley and have noted that they have raised James Ave bridge about 5 feet and of course are widening it. Those have been my thoughts too that maybe we could have a northern loop of 440. They have a ways to go because of the interchange at Brick Church, Briley, and I 24. Its a real cluster through there.

[MidTenn1]

To me it seems more like 10 years for the leg from Gallatin Rd. to I-65, even less. It was recently expanded, but I've lost all track of time on this thing really. I use it constantly and have evolved with it, right in to senility I guess. Ellington should be widened by a lane, and I think plans exist somewhere to do that. There are long sweeping flyovers over Briley providing a direct link to I-65 N from Ellington, and in reverse as well. The entrance ramp where Briley converges to Ellington is a 4-lane ramp merging into 4 and 5 lanes of northbound 65 traffic. Lots of concrete and very sweet. Ellington isn't really a problem as it is. It slows a bit a rush, but only briefly. I'd like to see 3 lanes, but it's fine right now...and I use it more than Briley. The reworking of the Spring Street lanes, Ellington ramps and signaling is very nice. Having the dedicated lane from 65 to Spring is helping a lot. And the area looks great and will be very fitting for 5th and Main.

Dave,

There was a proposal to widen and straighten Ellington Parkway, but there was significant opposition to the project from the neighborhoods, so I'm told. The plans have been shelved for the time being and it may be quite some time before any further progress is made toward finishing the plans and starting construction.

And thanks for the nice words on the recent Spring Street project. I will take full credit for that one. (Yeah, that's right. I work for TDOT!)

[Hankster]

That's interesting, Dave. I'm interested in timeframes... like apx. when was each leg completed. And if I understood the sequence you laid out, then the stretch of Briley between I-40 E and I-24 E is one of the newer sections to have been completed. So then I wonder why it wasn't designed to be limited access. Plus, I'm aware that it used to be the road to the old air terminal at BNA. So what was there before Briley? I can't remember anything that connected that old terminal to M'boro Road that didn't utilize Briley. Of course, so much has changed around there. Is there a plan to make that leg limited access. It's such a disruption to the flow of traffic (especially now that the junction to I-40/I-24 if FUBAR).

The section of Briley Parkway between I-24 East and I-40 East that runs near the airport was the first section of Briley Parkway that was opened. I remember when it was constructed in the mid 60's. It provided improved access from I-40 to the airport terminal which was on the west side of the airport in those days. When the terminal was rebuilt later the airport terminal was moved to the east side of the runways. The Briley Parkway was a four lane divided highway without limited access. The limited access portions were added later North of I-40 and looping around the north side of the city. There were originally plans to complete the loop of the city on the south side as well with the Briley Parkway. It was to follow Thompson Lane and Woodmont Blvd and White Bridge Road on the south side of the city. Plans were for a four lane divided road without limited access similar to the portion near the airport. This road was never constructed due to the many homes that would have been lost and the public outcry from that as well as the fact that it really wasn't needed that much because I-440 was slated to be constructed along a similar route.

[Onyte9]

I always tend to notice every neighborhood that the interstate disects and its on of the thing that makes me sick. I know Jefferson Street is usually the first street named when we speak of the I disecting neighborhoods but Ive been working a good bit in the 440 area and it makes me sick to think about how many of those old beautiful homes were destroyed to make way for 440. I think the interstate was one of our and many other cities great urban mistakes. I understand the need for the interstates but it seems like they would have thought longer and harder about disecting the fabrication of old historic neighborhoods.

[nashscan]

What's the most fun anyone has ever had on Briley Pkwy?

[fieldmarshaldj]

What's the most fun anyone has ever had on Briley Pkwy?

Um, what exactly did you have in mind ?

[LA_TN]

...it makes me sick to think about how many of those old beautiful homes were destroyed to make way for 440...

I don't recall homes being destroyed at all; as this was the old railroad tracks. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

[Skyscrapergeek]

I guess Briley Parkway will always mean...Saturday mornings on the way to Opryland. I think the park opened when I was 4 or 5 and I was fortunate enough to have a big sister that would let me tag along as I got older. There isn't a time I drive Briley that I don't think of it. I think I had every winding turn memorized. Here's to the good old days.

[jice]

What's the most fun anyone has ever had on Briley Pkwy?

Ahh... gettin stopped for 60 in a 45. Ya know... after driving in the mess south of Opryland, and seeing whats to come as you head north & get closer to the Opry area... your foot gets kinda excited I guess, lol.

[L'burgnative]

And thanks for the nice words on the recent Spring Street project. I will take full credit for that one. (Yeah, that's right. I work for TDOT!)

So when are ya'll going to get out of the suburbs and fix the biggest problem with Nashville Interstate System. The bottle-necking that I-40, I-65, I-24/40, I-65/24 and the loop around downtown, that really needs to be corrected more then the suburbs. The Interstate loop around downtown needs ten to twelve lanes; no less, I-24/40 needs ten to twelve lanes till the split, I-65 need ten to twelve lane from I-440 in, I-40 need ten to twelve lanes from I-440 in and I-65/24 need ten to twelve lanes from the split in. Are there any future plans to correct the bottle-necks?

I always tend to notice every neighborhood that the interstate disects and its on of the thing that makes me sick. I know Jefferson Street is usually the first street named when we speak of the I disecting neighborhoods but Ive been working a good bit in the 440 area and it makes me sick to think about how many of those old beautiful homes were destroyed to make way for 440. I think the interstate was one of our and many other cities great urban mistakes. I understand the need for the interstates but it seems like they would have thought longer and harder about disecting the fabrication of old historic neighborhoods.

I have not one but to geek side of me; skyscrapers and highways. Architects hate highways and freeways because they get in the way of there big urban development, and Civil Engineers hate urban development because it gets in there way of there super highway. I love them both; yes neighborhoods were divided in the result but could you imagine the traffic nightmare if the Interstates would have been routed away from town. Could you imagine if all we had to come in to town was Murfreesboro Road, Nolensville, Charlotte or West End and the other secondary roads. People complain about the traffic congestion now, but can you imagine how bad it would be without I-65, I-24 and I-40 running right through town. I love how Nashville's Interstates are routed and I wouldn't change a thing about them. I hated the plan of Nashville because of that reason; doing away with the Interstates is the dumbest thing I

[vinemp]

Actually, The Plan of Nashville just recommends that Briley Pkwy and I-440 merge to become Nashville's major interstate bypass. Their argument is that the limited-access highways should be, in fact, limited access and used for long distance travel.

It is the "inner loop" (I-40/I-65/I-24) that The Plan discusses dismantling in order to restore the myriad of city blocks that were destroyed when the interstate was constructed.

The Plan also offers a four-step reformation/rationalization for weaning city traffic away from the highway:

1. Cosmetic Improvement (limited)

2. More Links (no interstate = more streets, more route possibilities, more neighborhood connection)

3. Rationalized Interchanges (right angle not clover leaf = more land, more development, more tax $)

4a. Highway to Boulevard (highway conforms to street system around it)

4b. Street System Restroation

New York, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Portland, San Fracisco, Cleveland and Akron are the cities The Plan cites to have implemented/are implementing interstate dissolution.

I think it is a very compelling argument, and I am inclined to fully endorse this portion of The Plan of Nashville.

[L'burgnative]

I am not trying to be mean or negative, but you are endorsing a traffic nightmare. Other then the transformation of the inner loop into a boulevard I liked the plan; but again, it is not feasible unless the Interstates became obsolete. Another thing I like about the inner loop is that outsides get to see Nashville's beautiful skyline and if you route the traffic away from town you will lose that feature.

[rocky top buzz]

I like interstates as a means on convinience, but I too wonder when will "big" be big enough. Didn't I hear recently that Atlanta has proposed Widening I-75 into Atlanta to 28 lanes? Is that the right size? Most cities nowadays are split by the interstate. Going down I-24, you have Antioch, La Vergne, Smyrna, and Murfreesboro all split by the interstate. Creive Hall, Brentwood and Franklin are split by the interstate. The big difference is that these areas didn't really grown until after the interstate was created. But You won't hear me asking to have I-24 ripped apart!

Let's just tunnel underground and we can make lanes as wide as we want without destroying land.

[Hankster]

Actually, The Plan of Nashville just recommends that Briley Pkwy and I-440 merge to become Nashville's major interstate bypass. Their argument is that the limited-access highways should be, in fact, limited access and used for long distance travel.

It is the "inner loop" (I-40/I-65/I-24) that The Plan discusses dismantling in order to restore the myriad of city blocks that were destroyed when the interstate was constructed.

The Plan also offers a four-step reformation/rationalization for weaning city traffic away from the highway:

1. Cosmetic Improvement (limited)

2. More Links (no interstate = more streets, more route possibilities, more neighborhood connection)

3. Rationalized Interchanges (right angle not clover leaf = more land, more development, more tax $)

4a. Highway to Boulevard (highway conforms to street system around it)

4b. Street System Restroation

New York, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Portland, San Fracisco, Cleveland and Akron are the cities The Plan cites to have implemented/are implementing interstate dissolution.

I think it is a very compelling argument, and I am inclined to fully endorse this portion of The Plan of Nashville.

This is a horrendous argument until the inner loop is reconstructed. When the inner loop in rebuilt, the city will desperately NEED I-440 and Briley Parkway. Without them, the city will be brought to a sudden standstill. It would be complete gridlock. After the inner loop is rebuilt, then there may be a compelling argument to tear out I-440. And if we tear out I-440 and do not ever upgrade the inner loop, traffic will immediately become nighmarish going through the downtown area.

[Skyscrapergeek]

This is a horrendous argument until the inner loop is reconstructed. When the inner loop in rebuilt, the city will desperately NEED I-440 and Briley Parkway. Without them, the city will be brought to a sudden standstill. It would be complete gridlock. After the inner loop is rebuilt, then there may be a compelling argument to tear out I-440. And if we tear out I-440 and do not ever upgrade the inner loop, traffic will immediately become nighmarish going through the downtown area.

Not to mention horrendously expensive.

[tistic]

Actually, The Plan of Nashville just recommends that Briley Pkwy and I-440 merge to become Nashville's major interstate bypass. Their argument is that the limited-access highways should be, in fact, limited access and used for long distance travel.

It is the "inner loop" (I-40/I-65/I-24) that The Plan discusses dismantling in order to restore the myriad of city blocks that were destroyed when the interstate was constructed.

The Plan also offers a four-step reformation/rationalization for weaning city traffic away from the highway:

1. Cosmetic Improvement (limited)

2. More Links (no interstate = more streets, more route possibilities, more neighborhood connection)

3. Rationalized Interchanges (right angle not clover leaf = more land, more development, more tax $)

4a. Highway to Boulevard (highway conforms to street system around it)

4b. Street System Restroation

New York, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Portland, San Fracisco, Cleveland and Akron are the cities The Plan cites to have implemented/are implementing interstate dissolution.

I think it is a very compelling argument, and I am inclined to fully endorse this portion of The Plan of Nashville.

First, thanks to everyone for the warm welcome. SSG, it does seem like we've met somewhere...

Vine, I have to respond to The Plan of Nashville, at least inasmuch as it seeks to destroy the inner loop. Except that your post brings it up, my dismay is directed at the authors of the document and not towards you. I'm actually glad you brought it up b/c I've wanted to vent about this for awhile now...

The idea that Billions in taxpayer dollars should be spent to destroy the inner loop of our interstate system is laughable over the top *ridiculous*. Look no further than Boston to see how bad the cost overruns can get for an overly ambitious project. But at least in Boston (as I understand it) there was a reason for the tunnel that most people could agree on: convenience and efficiency in interstate travel. The Plan of Nashville would have exactly the opposite effect both during AND AFTER construction!

In the case of The Plan, the motivating factors as I understand them are aesthetics and nostalgia. Connect the old neighborhoods torn asunder by the evil interstates and give us greenways. Lots and lots of greenways.

We'll need the green of the greenways b/c there won't be any green in our wallets if this thing were to happen.

The neighborhoods that would be reconnected so barely resemble today what they did decades ago, that by the time this project were finished it would be a new neighborhood that no living person would recognize from their past. The Plan of Nashville is a plan of madness. Okay, maybe ten people would be enthralled at how much it brings back their wonderful memories. Perhaps fifty people would still be alive to enjoy it. I'll stipulate to one hundred people for the sake of argument. There's nothing all the other neighborhood beneficiaries would get from this madness that they couldn't get by some other means. But every day tens of thousands of people would be grossly inconvenienced for the sake of that neighborhood-lovin' feeling. And there are plenty of options for creating greenways or tree-lined boulevards that don't destroy our economy.

As things are configured right now, we aren't just talking about relocating the roads. Hundreds (if not thousands) of businesses have located where they are because they rely on the excellent convenience and economic benefits of Nashville's interstates. Unlike many other markets, our great city has three major interstates that converge here. If you destroy the inner loop, you place a severe drain on those companies' ability to compete. You kill jobs. Thousands and thousands of jobs. Of the companies that can survive the transition and scrape together the money to relocate, where will they go? Many of them will relocate to a city that does not put their investments at risk with nostalgia- and aesthetics-based social engineering.

Of the companies that do not move out of town, they'll have to relocate to any Briley Parkway areas they can move into, destroying the property values of home owners who also used to like things the way they were. Widen Briley to about sixteen lanes. Put an industrial park next to the Wave Pool.

And if you really want to place the economic prospects for our city in a state of suspended animation, keep pushing the Plan so that decision-makers don't know if the value of their pending investments in our great city will be undermined by social engineering three years after they commit. Would Nissan have moved to Franklin if there were a chance that the interstate system would be displaced from where their corporate HQ is going? Of course not. People making business decisions need certainty; certainty is what our nation's economy relies on. If this proposal ever approaches becoming an actual project to upend our inner loop and the spurs that get to it from 24, 65 & 40, capital investments near downtown and mid-town will dry up during the twenty years it would take to complete it.

The divided neighborhoods are permanently divided and have been for decades. Aside from completely wasting decades of effort and the countless millions of dollars of civic investment to get our interstate loop to the level we have now, the cost of removing it would be far too outrageous to vindicate the motives of The Plan. The tsunami effect on our economy would be devastating to business owners and therefore to the jobs we need and to the tax base. And the grotesque widening of and industrialization of Briley would seriously devalue the homes in those neighborhoods.

Et tu, Plan of Nashville?? No compassion for the people of those neighborhoods??? Utopia for the core and an apocolyptic mad-max dystopia for the Briley outlanders!!!!

Don't make me run for Mayor.